What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119874672#Comment_119874672

LOL, what a little rollercoaster that was

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875159#Comment_119875159

Slabs of paragraphs bereft of any meaningful points, as usual. A landslide of waffle, a veritable tombstone of meaninglessness. It's just a mosaic of words...designed to confuse, perhaps?

…

Maybe in a university degree and a philosophy exam, people will talk what you say, but that's all.

Et tu, Brute? 😂

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875210#Comment_119875210

That's increased to at 6 percent on the last similar poll I saw. Though I would say immigration is not the number one thing for the vast vast majority of people, me included.

That shouldn't be taken that they think all is OK with current policy

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875237#Comment_119875237

Oh no I’m just saying that relying on the result of a referendum about a constitutional amendment from 20 years ago as evidence of anything is a poor measure of people’s attitudes to immigration policy today.

I certainly wouldn’t do it, but I’m also not surprised immigration has become a greater factor In influencing how people vote than it was two years ago given how dramatically circumstances have changed since then, let alone how much they’ve changed in 20 years since the referendum on citizenship.

Most recent polls suggest SF are going to be the most popular party at the next GE, and they’re keeping shtum about their policies on immigration and making all the right noises about housing. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were still the most popular party, I’d be surprised if they managed to form a Government though, about as surprised as I’d be if any of the anti-immigration candidates managed to gain a seat, which is the only way a policy placing even greater limitations on immigration gets on the table, particularly in the current economic climate.

1800_Ladladlad

The latest data from Helens undocumented shows that over of the illegal migrants applying to regularise their status come from Brazil, China, and Pakistan with 64% of the total applications coming from males and 60% of applications from 26-45 year olds

• 8,300+ applicants in total, 2,835 apps have been granted, 39 withdrawn and 34 refused.
• 5,307 are still to be determined.

The highest number of applications came from Brazilians at 1,504 applications. A further 1,307 from Pakistan, China (1,159 incl Hong Kong), Philippines (751 apps), Nigeria (446), and India (313).

• Applications from Ukraine (77), Russia(26), US(33) Canada (13), NZ(13), 13 from an “unknown” country. Children aged 12 & under (905), teenagers 13-18 (229), 12 apps 76+.

The DoJ stated that the scheme has so far generated more than €3.73 million in fees. That's some boss-kween energy from Helen

Of the 3,108 applications in the separate scheme for asylum seekers, people who've had multiple appeals denied, 2/3s were mem. 949 were granted so far while 839 people had been granted an equivalent or higher level of permission within the international protection system. So it pays to wait. 359 applicants have been refused but the Department of Justice was nice enough to advise them of their right to appeal that decision...ffs.

• 500+ applications were from Georgia, Nigeria(392), Pakistan(356), Albania (313), Zimbabwe (261), South Africa (253), Algeria (176), and Bangladesh (134). 1,828 of the 3,108 applications were 26 to 45 years of age

No fees had been collected through this scheme. We'll just pay for it. Both of these schemes are still going with the shutters up and the lights on. I don't know what's going on, I have an idea but I'll get banned.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41005649.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119873805#Comment_119873805

Well said

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875111#Comment_119875111

Well OK, if you feel the need to point out people who are concerned about crimes and want to challenge it that's your right.

On your last point weird take on it (even bit wtf ish) but again fair enough your entitled to your opinion.(let's not bring that up again for everyone concerned though)

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875740#Comment_119875740

The point I was making, which I have no doubt you’re aware of at this stage, because I’m assuming you’re not stupid, is that the people filming and sharing those videos aren’t concerned about crime, their only interest appears to be in portraying immigrants as criminals who engage in all sorts of antisocial behaviour.

There was nothing wtf about my second point either. Again I have no doubt you’re aware of what I intended - being in a relationship with an immigrant doesn’t indicate anything one way or another about anyone’s broader views of multiculturalism, it’s just tokenistic virtue signalling at best, and amounts to fetishistic exoticism if they’re trying to claim it’s a benefit of multiculturalism. Multiculturalism isn’t directly related to immigrants or immigration policies. Multiculturalism means people of different cultures and backgrounds living together as a society, like this lot, most of whom were applicants from the UK -

Almost 1,000 people became Irish citizens at the first in-person citizenship ceremonies to be held in over two years.

Some 950 people from 92 countries were conferred with Irish citizenship in Killarney today.

There were more applicants from the UK than any other nation, as has been the case each year since Brexit. Some 111 new citizens from the UK were conferred. This was followed by India at 97, Romania at 77, Poland at 72 and Nigeria at 55 and Brazil at 48.

At 81 years of age, the oldest person to be conferred with Irish citizenship was film producer David Puttnam.

His wife Patsy was also made a citizen.

The couple has lived in west Cork for 32 years.

“This is home,” they said. 

…

Italians were among the nationalities at the ceremonies in Killarney, a town twinned with Castiglione di Sicilia in Sicily since 1987.

Irene Zolfo from Palermo, Sicily, said she felt like she was being “adopted" today and becoming an Irish citizen meant a lot to her.

“I have lived here for so many years. Sofia has a disability and this is the best place she could be,” Irene, an administrator, said of her beautiful daughter Sophia, aged 8, who wore her Holy Communion dress for the occasion.

Sophia is an Irish citizen already as she was born in Dublin.

…

Dulajano Mavankovic from Croatia had been a journalist with Croatian State TV, and had also been a signal man in the army during the former Yugoslav war. In 2014, he came to work in Cork for an IT company.

“It’s a state of accomplishment,” he said of his new status. The Croatian community was becoming larger in the southwest, he added.

Queuing excitedly were Radu originally from Bucharest in Romania and his wife Claire from Galway who are both now living in Dublin. The couple are expecting their first child in September.

…

Mehvish Khan a doctor in Wexford, and her husband, also a doctor, Ahsan Saraz in Dublin were delighted with the ceremony.

She had grown up in London and they were originally from Pakistan.

…

Speaking afterwards to reporters, the minister was asked about one-time plans for an English language test before Irish citizenship was granted, thus bringing this country into line with the requirements for local language proficiency such as in France.

Those plans have been shelved because “both Irish and English are official languages,” the minister said.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40899905.html

It’s about more than just zeroing in on certain crimes or antisocial behaviour where the perpetrator or perpetrators involved are immigrants and maintaining they are representative of immigrants in Ireland, with the aim being to suggest that Ireland needs to reform it’s immigration laws or policies, any more than I wouldn’t entertain an argument suggesting Ireland needs to reform it’s immigration laws or policies based on the idea that foreigners are great in the sack being a benefit of multiculturalism.

That’s nothing more than a superficial argument, same as the idea that foreigners are criminals and they’re adding to a system that’s already bursting at the seams with all sorts of issues. It’s doing nothing more than pointing fingers and looking for people to blame for issues they are in no way responsible for, they couldn’t be, because they just don’t have that sort of political power to orchestrate the preceding actions which led to the consequences for Irish society some 20, even 30 years later.

You hardly imagined the current circumstances in which Irish society finds itself happened overnight or even in the last few years? That’s why the idea of “oh but I’m only innocently highlighting issues caused by a failed immigration policy”, when promoting footage of people engaging in antisocial behaviour, just doesn’t wash. Things like the context, and the point they’re making, and what they hope to accomplish by their actions, are what’s important, and if their point is so obvious that their intent is to promote prejudice and fearmongering of immigrants, then they absolutely deserve criticism for their actions.

Thought this was an interesting article about New Zealand and the effect that Australian biker gangs has had on their crime rate

https://archive.ph/z8puL

"While not matching the economic challenges facing New Zealand, billowing youth and gang crime in a country that thinks of itself safer than most has alarmed many — and much of the increase has occurred on Ardern’s watch. Ram raids are up by 500 per cent. Gun crime in Auckland, the largest city, has increased by more than 50 per cent in decade, much of it attributed to the arrival of Australian biker gangs.

Ardern replaced her police minister in June in what was widely seen as a response to disquiet over crime. Although her government has offered vulnerable shopkeepers financial aid to install anti-ram raid bollards, reinforced doors, alarms, and fog cannon, perceptions that her wokeness may encourage offenders have taken root — even among criminologists.

High levels of truancy allied to the young age of many of the raiders, emboldened by the knowledge that youth sentencing laws provided mild consequences, have led to widespread perception that Ardern is soft on crime.

“That’s one of the reasons why Ardern is becoming unpopular,” Dr Greg Newbold, emeritus professor of criminology at the University of Canterbury, told The Times. “Because this whole kindness thing means people can do what the hell they want, especially young offenders. That’s the perception.”

She is also the victim of her own aspiration, having undertaken to defeat homelessness and lift children out of poverty. After promising to build 100,000 extra state houses for the poor — 10,000 by 2021 — the government had produced a mere 1,366 by July.

Instead, thousands of homeless people are crammed into motels with the government paying the bills, while the numbers of families on housing waiting lists has soared by 400 per cent."

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875772#Comment_119875772

Where do I start with this.......jeez

Actually I cant (about my 20th attempt at trying respond) cause no disrespect its just your posts are all over shop, make no connection to my points and just going around in circles and around again. That was painful.

We move on for sake of thread. Much better discussions from posters will be had.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875784#Comment_119875784

Thought this was an interesting article about New Zealand and the effect that Australian biker gangs has had on their crime rate

Awful snarky tone in that article towards Jacinda 😁

Australian biker gangs aren’t really the issue, though they are undoubtedly a contributing factor, especially as many more of New Zealanders are being deported from Australia and going up against rival gangs already established in New Zealand -

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-sa/descendants-bikie-bosses-lose-final-bid-to-stop-their-deportation/news-story/99c6cdcedb5cc92b131779c06dc56f1a?amp&nk=eaf3908a734b25adf524022d89508c6b-1668488101

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_New_Zealand

What’s really going on in New Zealand, which is a more relevant contributing factor to Jacinda’s unpopularity, is indeed “the economy, stupid”. Basically while she handled the Covid situation well, which drove her popularity, she’s unable to do much to stem a global phenomenon of rising inflation by which people are really feeling the pinch and starting to turn on each other, so much so that researchers have determined there is a correlation between rising inflation, and rising crime (hardly needed a research study to come to that conclusion, but hey ho) -

https://www.firstsecurity.co.nz/blog/the-peculiar-relationship-between-inflation-and-theft/

A crippling rise in inflation causes an economy to shrink, doesn’t matter what country it is or who’s in power or their previous popularity, which Jacinda had enjoyed -

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/28/jacinda-arderns-labour-party-sees-support-rise-for-first-time-in-two-years-poll-shows

It’s not just been observed in New Zealand though, or Ireland for that matter. It’s been observed in a number of countries which would previously have been seen as having strong economic growth, such as Germany, Denmark and the country everyone loves to hate, Sweden -

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-28/german-recession-delayed-as-economy-unexpectedly-grows

https://www.nordea.com/en/news/danish-economy-affected-by-uncertainty

https://www.nordea.com/en/news/swedens-economy-is-weakening-from-a-strong-position

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875843#Comment_119875843

I got your point ages ago - it’s fair when you criticise other people; it’s unfair when people criticise you.

lmao10

A lot of this thread does come down to the use of snidey comments from both sides unfortunately. Lets be better.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875659#Comment_119875659

Nothing about the number in employment interestingly enough....

Great to add thousands to the social housing lists

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875987#Comment_119875987

Why would there be anything about the numbers in employment? It’s more likely some of them who are looking to be regularised would be working jobs which would give them cash in hand, but that’s not employment, and they wouldn’t have been paying income tax on their earnings.

Nothing about social housing either as it may not apply to all applicants seeking to have their status regularised. There may well be cases of many of them living in shared accommodation already subletting with no desire to be on any housing lists.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875855#Comment_119875855

It does and you are certainly one of the worst for it.

Might be good to take your own advice on board in future.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119876011#Comment_119876011

I agree, I never said all, however they are hardly working cash in hand on massive money. So its likely a not insubstantial portion will.

Also one of the benefits of the scheme was to increase tax base from those working, just surprised its not provided

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875659#Comment_119875659

Scary numbers at both ends of the spectrum

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119876965#Comment_119876965

I know you never said all, you pointed out that there wasn’t anything about the numbers in employment, to which I asked why would there be anything about the numbers in employment? I don’t think they’re on massive money working cash in hand either, as they’re undocumented, meaning there’s unlikely to be any record of employment.

Can’t provide figures that don’t exist, and anything provided would only be an estimate, and with only 3,000 applications processed so far, and another 5,000 to go, there’s no way of estimating how many will apply for social housing either.

People being detained in Direct Provision probably make up a good number of applications too, and they can already apply for permission to take up employment -

https://www.thejournal.ie/considerable-challenges-direct-provision-residents-facing-employment-barriers-despite-right-to-work-4535651-Mar2019/

I’ll take your word for it that you heard it somewhere that one of the benefits of the scheme was to increase the tax base from those working, but I’d honestly doubt it was of any actual benefit given the low numbers of people eligible for the scheme in the first place, and the fact that their contribution to the tax base would be insignificant. Far more likely are the reasons stated by Helen to encourage their participation in Irish society as opposed to living on the margins and being vulnerable to exploitation -

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/f03fc-scheme-for-long-term-undocumented-migrants-now-open-for-applications/?referrer=http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR22000012

Even the expected revenue generated from fees wouldn’t be much to write home about in terms of revenue generated from taxation which in any given year amounts to nearly €100Bn - €26Bn from income tax, and nearly €500m spent on administration -

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/annual-report/2021/ar-2021.pdf

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875849#Comment_119875849

Never said that. In fact I have twice said I welcome debate, its quite clear. Your post was not debating my points, just going off on a different topic making accusations and what not without a shred of evidence either. Just assumptions.

Plus you criticise the post not the poster.

Anyway we are adding nothing so let's move on

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119877336#Comment_119877336

“Let’s move on” after your claim I’m not debating your points and just going off on a different topic making accusations without a shred of evidence?

No I think I’ll stick with what we were discussing, which is the idea that people who upload videos which are intended to promote prejudice against immigrants should be immune from, or above criticism. I don’t subscribe to that sort of nonsense, which is why I regard it as fair that anyone who is intending to be critical of other people or groups in Irish society should not be immune from criticism of themselves and their own actions, motivations, opinions or beliefs.

Otherwise what you don’t want is a discussion on level terms, you want a discussion where you have a significant advantage in that you’re immune from criticism. Crying foul because you’re expected to play fair, amounts to nothing more than playing the victim -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_playing

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119877670#Comment_119877670

OK you do that.

I'm just not sure how can be on level terms when

1. We are debating totally different things

2. Your one making false accusations, assumptions and name calling. You are one that's seems have issue. I have no issue but I have said your points make no sense to what I'm saying.

Crying foul you say? I'm not one attacking posters. I'm debating the videos and some stories here. It's a debate on Multiculturalism in Ireland.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119877942#Comment_119877942

This was your original point -

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862298#Comment_119862298

It’s become obvious since then that you were playing silly beggars by playing down the fact that the video was filmed and uploaded to social media for the purposes of portraying immigrants engaged in antisocial behaviour, in order to promote prejudice against immigrants.

That’s why I suggested that context was important, a point which you appeared to be willing to overlook. There was no moving of goalposts or calling you names or anything else. You then put it out there that you’re dating an immigrant, as if that’s of any relevance whatsoever, given that plenty of Irish people date immigrants and they have shìtty opinions of immigrants based upon where they’re from or their ethnicity or culture or a whole multitude of other factors.

I agreed with your original point that everyone should be treated the same standards, which is why I objected to the notion that there was anything benign about anyone being filmed and it being uploaded to social media, knowing that people would make all sorts of negative assumptions and draw all sorts of negative conclusions, and would treat other people according to the behaviour they witnessed in the video.

It’s not so difficult a line of thought as you’ve been consistently trying to make out, but I don’t mind if we leave it there now that I’ve said my piece. Now we can move on, if you like?

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878064#Comment_119878064

We will for everyone's sake. Thank god thats over.

US3

Looks to have been massive crowds protesting at East Wall this evening. All far right racists?

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119904610#Comment_119904610

According to a small few maybe, but the majority have spoken, only so long the racist card will wash, the word racist has lost all meaning.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119904610#Comment_119904610

Great to see. Hopefully momentum builds now.

Get with the program and become more Irish than the Irish themselves. Bring your skills and good things, embrace your new country.

If you don't like our system, you can get cheap flights out of the countey, even from Kerry and Donegal.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119904610#Comment_119904610

There was enough well known racists, sh*t stirrers and members of the National Party present with no links to the area for this to be more than "genuine local concerns".

If you want to ignore that go ahead, but don't say you haven't been told. Be careful about what you hitch your wagon to.

And if you want to call two hundred-or-so people "massive", go right ahead also, but it's not really is it?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119904610#Comment_119904610

A regular Nuremburg rally.