What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Wibbs

briany wrote: »

There's no such thing as a pan-western/white culture, IMO. There's Irish culture, British culture, Spanish culture, German culture and so on. People love to celebrate St. Patrick's day around the world because it's all about merriment, singing, dancing and drinking. Not much problem with that western culture. But St. George's day not so much because English history and culture features/celebrates a lot of going around the world, invading places, slaughtering the natives and taking all their stuff, which it turns out wasn't really cool.

And some would say similar of Christianity yet the majority of European celebrations are Christian in nature, though more in name only these days. Never mind the history of France, Belgium, Holland, etc as far as invading places and taking stuff. Which BTW loads of cultures, creeds and colours outside Europe and across the world have done at one time or another. One's boogyman tends to be more about geography, local history and personal worldview.

And as for the contention that there is no such thing as a general European/White/Western culture that's a clear nonsense. From as far back as the Greeks and later the Romans(inc the Byzantines) a pan European culture was taking shape and massively influenced how Europe has shaped its culture, traditions, laws, languages, politics, art, technology, science, architecture, religion, philosophy and so forth right down to today. Hell, you don't have to go much further than Ireland for an example of that. An island and culture on the "edge of world" never touched directly by a centurion's sandal, yet within a couple of generations it became "Romanised" and after Rome was a crumbling memory as a power. That's how much appeal it held. Look at what has become an icon of Irish identity, the GPO in Dublin.



Any ancient Roman or Greek would find that extremely familiar.

Even outside classical world Europe there were massive cultural connections. The so called "Celts" for one. If we were to subdivide European cultures we could broadly define them to three; Latin, Celtic/Germanic and Slav. Even there they didn't stay so separate for long. They all became Christian for a start which brought all the GrecoRoman stuff along with it. Save for a brief period of some Muslim cultural incursion and influence in Spain and later Greece(for longer) European culture has held sway throughout. It would be hard enough to find another similar sized region on the planet that has had such long standing cultural connections. China would be one, the empire that unlike Rome didn't fall. The Muslim Middle East another.

Dyr

When people go on about the west not having a collective culture I'm always reminded of Louis CKs joke about Christianity being the winner of religion, his proof? "What year is it? "

Wibbs

Bambi wrote: »

When people go on about the west not having a collective culture I'm always reminded of Louis CKs joke about Christianity being the winner of religion, his proof? "What year is it? "

Sure even that's being tweaked lately to be "culturally sensitive". So instead of BC and AD, we now often see BCE and CE(Before Common Era/Common Era). While common era was a term long in play the use of it in more widespread dating is a recent change. Never mind that we know what the hell it means anyway.

Cordell

I think we should stop using the Gregorian calendar altogether, it's too white and too christian, that is not inclusive at all. Until we find a proper replacement just stop any time keeping activities altogether.
And in fairness few people know that Jesus was born sometime between 6-4 BC.

jmreire

Wibbs wrote: »

Sure even that's being tweaked lately to be "culturally sensitive". So instead of BC and AD, we now often see BCE and CE(Before Common Era/Common Era). While common era was a term long in play the use of it in more widespread dating is a recent change. Never mind that we know what the hell it means anyway.

I can't see the Islamic Calender being changed, ever.....and I'm happy with the calendar we have. After all, its worked very well for the last 2'000 years.

Dyr

Cordell wrote: »

I think we should stop using the Gregorian calendar altogether, it's too white and too christian, that is not inclusive at all. Until we find a proper replacement just stop any time keeping activities altogether.
And in fairness few people know that Jesus was born sometime between 6-4 BC.

There is no so such thing as objective timekeeping, its a colonial narrative that disempowers marginalised groups.

Eric Cartman

Bambi wrote: »

There is no so such thing as objective timekeeping, its a colonial narrative that disempowers marginalised groups.

I know you're throwing in a bit of sarcasm but Ive seen that point of view espoused seriously before. Cant understand how being on time is in any way a race thing.

Dyr

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I know you're throwing in a bit of sarcasm but Ive seen that point of view espoused seriously before. Cant understand how being on time is in any way a race thing.

Sarcasm is now impossible

And problematic

Wibbs

jmreire wrote: »

I can't see the Islamic Calender being changed, ever.....

or Chinese, or Jewish and dead right too. Europeans and its wider diaspora really need to get off this sackcloth and ashes oh how terrible we were simplistic nonsense, or more to the point stop listening to the screeching hysterical voices dictating this simplistic nonsense, but that's more for another thread.

and I'm happy with the calendar we have. After all, its worked very well for the last 2'000 years.

Well... It needed a few tweaks and a few missing days here and there.

Strumms

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why don’t you bring multiculturalism to Africa if it creates such a utopia?? Why hoard it for whitey in Europe?? I’ll chip in for a ticket to Lagos for you. I’m sure others would too.

That’s an interesting question, what would happen if xx,xxx thousand Europeans / Irish landed in say Sierra Leone...

Not only landed, but said... “ hiya, yeah look we know things are difficult for you guys here but we want a new life, so each of us are going to need free accommodation, free travel, free education for our kids, free medical treatment for us ALL as well as a weekly cash lump sum to enable us to live and prosper...

There would probably be a couple of admissions to the local hospital from people there from laughing at us that hard.

Sir Oxman

Bambi wrote: »

There is no so such thing as objective timekeeping, its a colonial narrative that disempowers marginalised groups.

Was about to chime in myself on that point - *good ol' Washington State critical theorists.

*sarcasm

Cordell

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I know you're throwing in a bit of sarcasm but Ive seen that point of view espoused seriously before. Cant understand how being on time is in any way a race thing.

Yes, for example science is not inclusive because it requires a higher education hence it's not accessible enough for the disadvantaged communities and intellectually challenged individuals. Computers are racist, remember that meme in the early 2000s? We laughed about it then, today it will be taken seriously.
There should be more minorities manning personing the nuclear power stations regardless of their qualifications, and if it is to blow up because of that then that's the price we need to pay for a more inclusive society.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Sarcasm is now impossible

And problematic

TBH, outside of the spoken word, I don't think I'm capable of picking up on sarcasm anymore. I used to think I could, but since I returned to boards this year, my sarcasm detection seems to have died.

There are just too many posters online with seriously wacky beliefs, and in most cases, they're not joking.

Dyr

Cordell wrote: »

Yes, for example science is not inclusive because it requires a higher education hence it's not accessible enough for the disadvantaged communities and intellectually challenged individuals. Computers are racist, remember that meme in the early 2000s? We laughed about it then, today it will be taken seriously.
There should be more minorities manning personing the nuclear power stations regardless of their qualifications, and if it is to blow up because of that then that's the price we need to pay for a more inclusive society.

Oh the problematic nature of science has nothing to do with financial means, we dont discuss that any more, rich kids who claim to be marginalised feel very uncomfortable about class issues

If you want to see the absolute ****show that is "decolonising" science have a look at James Lyndseys twtter and the hilarity that 2+2=4 caused

Quantum Erasure

Bambi wrote: »

There is no so such thing as objective timekeeping, its a colonial narrative that disempowers marginalised groups.

1 ÷ 4 = 15

murphthesmurf

Gentlemanne wrote: »

You've met thousands of Muslims, none of which have made you reconsider the notion that the second biggest major world religion is personally responsible for terrorism and mass rape?

I took a look at the youtube channel you suggested and I saw the same rightwing nutjob grifters (like Sargon of Akkad) that I've seen cause people to become obsessed about anti-Muslim sentiments, conspiracy etc.

Sad when young people get caught up in that kind of thing.

After 2 weeks I'm still gobsmacked that you found Triggernometry to be "righting nut job grifters". It's kept me awake at night! They just interviewed a rape victim, it was nothing radical.

statesaver

murphthesmurf wrote: »

After 2 weeks I'm still gobsmacked that you found Triggernometry to be "righting nut job grifters". It's kept me awake at night! They just interviewed a rape victim, it was nothing radical.

I enjoy their podcast, though the whole running joke of ' pegging ' is very tiresome. I know they are comedians but sitll.

You often hear KK blocking right wing nut job grifters from the chat.
The two are by no means right wing.

Alejandro68

statesaver wrote: »

I enjoy their podcast, though the whole running joke of ' pegging ' is very tiresome. I know they are comedians but sitll.

You often hear KK blocking right wing nut job grifters from the chat.
The two are by no means right wing.

What is pegging?

cassandra1976

I don't know if I find this refreshingly honest or depressing. A reporting job at the Indo would be an absolute holy grail for any 22 year old, but here's one who cheerfully admits her total ignorance of Irish recent history, culture and society, having grown up in a "Lithuanian household". Surely a journalist in a national broadsheet should have a deep knowledge of and immersion in same, even a young one? Was she employed due to some kind of quota?

I've just signed up so I can't post a link - It's Gabija Gataveckaite in today's Independent - "Reeling in the Years is giving my generation the perfect history lesson"

suicide_circus

I dont think you have to have lived through something to write about it, as long as youre not disingenuous and intimating you have knowledge or experience you really dont.

RasTa

Yup, Lithuanian quota reached.

Gabija was named ‘Journalist of the Year’ at the 2019 National Student Media Awards

Do you find that award depressing too? I mean it obviously should have went to some Irish.

cassandra1976

Well it's relevant to the perspectives on this thread about assimilation and integration. Obviously she has a high standard of English and has integrated perfectly well on a functional level. But it's possible to spend most of your life here and not really be connected to Irish culture on a deep level. Do you think she considers herself Irish? Probably not, and she is from a north European country not that far away. It belies the "New Irish" myth that is still being peddled.

RasTa

cassandra1976 wrote: »

Well it's relevant to the perspectives on this thread about assimilation and integration. Obviously she has a high standard of English and has integrated perfectly well on a functional level. But it's possible to spend most of your life here and not really be connected to Irish culture on a deep level. Do you think she considers herself Irish? Probably not, and she is from a north European country not that far away. It belies the "New Irish" myth that is still being peddled.

Rubbish. I've friends that moved to Canada with kids the same age as her when she moved. Never mind the amount of Irish who have moved to the EU like what has happened here.

People move to different countries(myself being one) deal with it.

suicide_circus

"New Irish"... give me strength.

I cant speak for this lady but my wife has been here years and considers herself to be her own nationality. If she were to go and get Irish citizenship she would consider herself her own nationality with Irish citizenship.

cassandra1976

RasTa wrote: »

Rubbish. I've friends that moved to Canada with kids the same age as her when she moved. Never mind the amount of Irish who have moved to the EU like what has happened here.

People move to different countries(myself being one) deal with it.

It's not the issue. The issue is that she's a staff reporter on a national broadsheet and is admitting her poor knowledge of contemporary Irish history and society. Why does she need to watch a TV show, hasn't she heard of books?

RasTa

cassandra1976 wrote: »

It's not the issue. The issue is that she's a staff reporter on a national broadsheet and is admitting her poor knowledge of contemporary Irish history and society. Why does she need to watch a TV show, hasn't she heard of books?

Reeling in the years is a great show. What books do you suggest she read?

Sir Oxman

cassandra1976 wrote: »

It's not the issue. The issue is that she's a staff reporter on a national broadsheet and is admitting her poor knowledge of contemporary Irish history and society. Why does she need to watch a TV show, hasn't she heard of books?

There'd be a question if she's writing opinion pieces for that paper (deep dive Irish issues) but if it's just reporting (we can hope factually, with no Indo owner spin), that should be no problem

Wibbs

cassandra1976 wrote: »

I don't know if I find this refreshingly honest or depressing. A reporting job at the Indo would be an absolute holy grail for any 22 year old, but here's one who cheerfully admits her total ignorance of Irish recent history, culture and society, having grown up in a "Lithuanian household". Surely a journalist in a national broadsheet should have a deep knowledge of and immersion in same, even a young one?

More like a large proportion of 20 year olds(of any creed, breed or generation) who aren't up to speed with much of not so recent history. It's not recent history to them. I mean I was a kid in the 70's, a teen in the 80's and if you'd asked my 20 odd year old self in the 90's about stuff from the 70's I would bet I'd have little enough clue about it, or only recall the big events. Even today if you asked me about the 70's specifically in Ireland I'd have little more than vague stuff about the Troubles(the Miami showband left an impact) and what was on the telly for kids. Oh and the Pope showing up. Most of my 70's memories are personal or international. Actually much would be the same for my memories of the 80's.

Plus conflating journalism and a deep knowledge of much of anything suggests you don't know that many journos. Just because someone can write doesn't necessarily mean they have anything much to say.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

"New Irish"... give me strength.

I cant speak for this lady but my wife has been here years and considers herself to be her own nationality. If she were to go and get Irish citizenship she would consider herself her own nationality with Irish citizenship.

If I moved to Germany or China and decided to stay there and gained citizenship. I would never be anything other than an irishman. I may have chinese or German citizenship but would always be Irish.

If I had children in china though with a none chinese woman and they were raised immersed in chinese culture and speaking chinese. I can understand the difficulties they might face regarding identity.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If I moved to Germany or China and decided to stay there and gained citizenship. I would never be anything other than an irishman. I may have chinese or German citizenship but would always be Irish.

If I had children in china though with a none chinese woman and they were raised immersed in chinese culture and speaking chinese. I can understand the difficulties they might face regarding identity.

If you have children with a non-Chinese person in China, they would be counted as foreigners by Chinese people, and authorities. And if you had a child with a Chinese person, in China, they would legally be considered Chinese, but in practice, they would be treated as a foreigner. Ability to speak Chinese isn't a factor. Ethnicity and appearance is.