What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Gentlemanne

murphthesmurf wrote: »

After 2 weeks I'm still gobsmacked that you found Triggernometry to be "righting nut job grifters". It's kept me awake at night! They just interviewed a rape victim, it was nothing radical.

Please improve your reading comprehension, I said it was certain guests like Sargon of Akaad, or Jack Buckby, that they had on that were rightwing nut job grifters. I don't know the actual content of the podcast but giving a friendly platform to people like this is pretty reprehensible in my opinion.

But some of the the more deluded posters here seem to think people like Sargon actually talk sense so its probably pointless of me to even reply.

statesaver wrote: »

You often hear KK blocking right wing nut job grifters from the chat.

Hmm, I wonder why there is OFTEN right wing nut jobs in the live chat of this podcast.

Various Artists

Various Artists wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how importing people from countries like Somalia and Afghanistan and planting them countries like Sweden is a good idea?

How exactly are these migrants going to intergrate?

Depends on your 'vantage point' really.. No doubt it's a 'good idea' for those making the laws; and/or the vested interests from whom they're taking instruction to make those laws that allows this lunacy. Definitely a good idea for 'The Great and The Good' - not so much good for the other 95% + :pac:. Can probably increase that 95% to 99.8% when the beneficiaries of this 'experiment' become more entrenched in the years and decades to come.

Sand

Various Artists wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how importing people from countries like Somalia and Afghanistan and planting them countries like Sweden is a good idea?

How exactly are these migrants going to intergrate?

It's good for some sectors of society. Corporations which can use it to hold down wages. It also fuels consumption by transferring wealth from tax payers to migrants and ultimately corporations. Landlords who can make lots of money hosting them. Lawyers who can make money contesting their right to remain in the courts almost indefinitely. And of course there is a burgeoning industry forming around amplifying, mediating and advising state and private institutions on the various discriminations and racisms. All for a fee. Pavee Point only has travellers, but imagine the money to be made if you have all the world in Ireland.

Its a bad deal for everyone else but there's enough money being made by those sectors to lobby politicians to do it anyway.

Arthur Daley

Spot on. It's all about the money to be made from it.

Wibbs

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Spot on. It's all about the money to be made from it.

Always follow the money is a damned good rule of working out such things.

kildare lad

Good to see balbriggan embracing multiculturalism and it's great to see the African teenagers bring such a vibrancy to the town . I'm sure the locals are loving it

https://www.facebook.com/518620081515968/posts/3697676820276929/

Clarence Boddiker

kildare lad wrote: »

Good to see balbriggan embracing multiculturalism and it's great to see the African teenagers bring such a vibrancy to the town . I'm sure the locals are loving it

https://www.facebook.com/518620081515968/posts/3697676820276929/

The papers must be lying about the stabbing and the video must be faked because according to some on here, there are no gangs in Balbriggan.

kildare lad

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The papers must be lying about the stabbing and the video must be faked because according to some on here, there are no gangs in Balbriggan.

There's something seriously wrong with calibre of refugee we let into this country . It just goes to show you, if you let in a load of spongers/bums that's the end result . And the lefties think that these future doctors and engineers are gonna be paying our pensions in the future . Pull the other leg. They'll end up like a burden on the state like their parents are now.

kildare lad

kildare lad wrote: »

There's something seriously wrong with calibre of refugee we let into this country . It just goes to show you, if you let in a load of spongers/bums that's the end result . And the lefties think that these future doctors and engineers are gonna be paying our pensions in the future . Pull the other leg. They'll end up like a burden on the state like they're parents are now.

There is a secondary problem, apart from what you raised. Even when a migrant comes in, works hard, stays out of trouble, etc, there are generally problems with their children when they reach teenage years. There is the problem of being connected to two very different cultures.

On the one hand, they've grown up in a very free environment in the west, with a good standard of education and lifestyle (even as a working class, their lifestyles would be better than most third world nations). However, they also have links to their original culture in the home, and perhaps also trips back to their parents home nation, visiting relatives. This tends to create a crisis in many migrant teens as the differences between the two cultures become more apparent.

Due to the nature of western culture, there is a definite focus on the individual and there's a lot of pressure on the individual to find their own place in society. Now, that's difficult enough for western teens, who only have one culture to deal with, but the issues are compounded when there are two cultures to draw upon. Which is why we've seen a rise in conflict over the last few decades by the children of migrants who often turn to more extreme behavior that might be associated with their parents culture. (Islam, ISIS and terrorism, are all aspects of this, but there are others too).

One of the other issues is that many third world countries have very different values than western nations, concerning a work ethic, or the perception of age and responsibility. Should the teen being drawing upon their ethnic culture, that can also come into conflict with western lifestyles, where typically, a more dedicated work ethic is needed for success.

When we look at migration and the issues connected to it, we need to look beyond the migrants themselves and consider their offspring.

Personally, I suspect there needs to be greater allocation of resources in education, and counselling to provide migrant children with the ability to firmly be integrated into our society. If they've come over here as children, then those resources will be needed more. If they were born/raised here, then likely they won't need more resources, but that entirely depends on how they were raised in the home, and the values of their parents.

We really need to be researching and collating information about migrants and their children, so that we can fully understand what's going on. The EU does a reasonably good job of this but the Irish State really needs to do more, if we want to avoid the problems of other countries (irrespective of whether migration is lessened or controlled, we already have a sizable number of migrants here who won't be leaving... we need to be able to deal with their problems before it explodes into something worse)

kildare lad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a secondary problem, apart from what you raised. Even when a migrant comes in, works hard, stays out of trouble, etc, there are generally problems with their children when they reach teenage years. There is the problem of being connected to two very different cultures.

On the one hand, they've grown up in a very free environment in the west, with a good standard of education and lifestyle (even as a working class, their lifestyles would be better than most third world nations). However, they also have links to their original culture in the home, and perhaps also trips back to their parents home nation, visiting relatives. This tends to create a crisis in many migrant teens as the differences between the two cultures become more apparent.

Due to the nature of western culture, there is a definite focus on the individual and there's a lot of pressure on the individual to find their own place in society. Now, that's difficult enough for western teens, who only have one culture to deal with, but the issues are compounded when there are two cultures to draw upon. Which is why we've seen a rise in conflict over the last few decades by the children of migrants who often turn to more extreme behavior that might be associated with their parents culture. (Islam, ISIS and terrorism, are all aspects of this, but there are others too).

One of the other issues is that many third world countries have very different values than western nations, concerning a work ethic, or the perception of age and responsibility. Should the teen being drawing upon their ethnic culture, that can also come into conflict with western lifestyles, where typically, a more dedicated work ethic is needed for success.

When we look at migration and the issues connected to it, we need to look beyond the migrants themselves and consider their offspring.

Personally, I suspect there needs to be greater allocation of resources in education, and counselling to provide migrant children with the ability to firmly be integrated into our society. If they've come over here as children, then those resources will be needed more. If they were born/raised here, then likely they won't need more resources, but that entirely depends on how they were raised in the home, and the values of their parents.

We really need to be researching and collating information about migrants and their children, so that we can fully understand what's going on. The EU does a reasonably good job of this but the Irish State really needs to do more, if we want to avoid the problems of other countries (irrespective of whether migration is lessened or controlled, we already have a sizable number of migrants here who won't be leaving... we need to be able to deal with their problems before it explodes into something worse)

I tend to think their kids are more influenced by American / British street gang culture rather than African culture. Theres something seriously wrong with either culture or parenting if you've gangs of them running amok with knives and bats . How many of their parents do you reckon own the houses that they live in , in balbriggan ?

Bobblehats

kildare lad wrote: »

I tend to think their kids are more influenced by American / British street gang culture rather than African culture. Theres something seriously wrong with either culture or parenting if you've gangs of them running amok with knives and bats . How many of their parents do you reckon own the houses that they live in , in balbriggan ?

It’s quite surreal listening to most of the videos they make you’d think we were under siege from african english, yet they were born here does this not ring alarm bells?! ..it’s incredibly antagonistic people go on about where has it worked; etc. but the sheer incompatibility that is transpiring here is unparalleled

I’d recommend a government initiative to swiftly terminate the possibility of any more immigration from these countries work with what we’ve got and maybe nip it in the bud before it spreads. Some form of damage control somehow stall the inevitable and work, with those that remain. Some sort of incentive to not replicate? ..to not reproduce, the glaring errors that have been made. This isn’t any old can being kicked down the road it’s an incredibly incendiary, explosive canister the damage from which; quite frankly the fallout we will struggle to contain.

Tell me how

Bobblehats wrote: »

It’s quite surreal listening to most of the videos they make you’d think we were under siege from african english, yet they were born here does this not ring alarm bells?! ..it’s incredibly antagonistic people go on about where has it worked; etc. but the sheer incompatibility that is transpiring here is unparalleled

I’d recommend a government initiative to swiftly terminate the possibility of any more immigration from these countries work with what we’ve got and maybe nip it in the bud before it spreads. Some form of damage control somehow stall the inevitable and work, with those that remain. Some sort of incentive to not replicate? ..to not reproduce, the glaring errors that have been made. This isn’t any old can being kicked down the road it’s an incredibly incendiary, explosive canister the damage from which; and frankly the fallout we will struggle to contain.

This is like the introduction to a screenplay of a movie starring Steve Bannon and Katie Hopkins and written by Gemma O'Doherty.

'the sheer incompatibility that is transpiring here is unparalleled'?

Take your head out of 4chan and go spend some time in reality. You'll probably benefit in more ways than one.

You know the 'other side' of the 'non-debate' (none in mainstream media anyway) on here have nowt logical to counter with when they're mentioning 4Chan, or Stormfront :rolleyes:

weldoninhio

Castlemills Shopping Centre in Balbriggan got another dose of “diversity” the other night. Cars smashed up as the diverse had running battles with each other. Videos all over Facebook. I’ve no idea how to put a FB video up here.

ExMachina1000

Rte radio 1 even reporting on a 19 year old being stabbed multiple times in ballbriggan. They also reported that these teen gangs are naming themselves by their location ie ballbriggan gang are the k42.

This is the part of multiculturalism we dont need. Its here now .

Also a video doing the rounds of a small group of black teens kicking a white teen around the footpath then forcing him to take a photo with his attackers. Caption of the photo: Irish drilla crew

kildare lad

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Also a video doing the rounds of a small group of black teens kicking a white teen around the footpath then forcing him to take a photo with his attackers. Caption of the photo: Irish drilla crew

Imagine the outrage if it was a group of whites kicking a black teen around . Posters on here like tell me why , would be out marching and screaming about Ireland's full of racists .

ExMachina1000

kildare lad wrote: »

Imagine the outrage if it was a group of whites kicking a black teen around . Posters on here like tell me why , would be out marching and screaming about Ireland's full of racists .

Of course they would.

There was always plausible deniability when it was only the like of tabloids and grainy videos to show the issues that are appearing in these areas.
When rte radio one are reporting on it at 8 o clock in the morning as part of the headline news well that deniability is gone.

Wibbs

kildare lad wrote: »

There's something seriously wrong with calibre of refugee we let into this country

This is a large part of the problem in dealing with migration and the confusion around it. Those gangs in the video are not the kids of actual refugees/asylum seekers. They're the kids of the legal loophole of the pregnancy passport back in the late nineties early noughties. And the boom of course. If that loophole hadn't existed there were thousands who got in here who today wouldn't have stood a chance. The acceptance percentage today from places like Nigeria, Ukraine, Georgia and Romania is absolutely tiny, because the relevant departments know bloody well the vast majority are chancers. And they were chancers then, but you can't really say that. Apparently as if by magic they completely changed in the interim.... Note when Leo Varadkar acknowledged that there were a large percentage of chancers from a few countries, he mentioned Georgia, Albania, Romania etc, all White nations, but did not mention places like Nigeria. That would be bad PR. At least to our media and NGO lobbyists.

kildare lad wrote: »

Imagine the outrage if it was a group of whites kicking a black teen around . Posters on here like tell me why , would be out marching and screaming about Ireland's full of racists .

Because that would be Wacist!! :mad: and as we know non Whites can't be racist and if occasionally they're acknowledged to be it's because of White imperialism or some other nonsense.

Like I said earlier it's the same old story in the oppressed/oppressor narrative wherever you may find it: [insert oppressed group here] are always agentless victims and [insert oppressor group here] are always to blame. And it's why this "outrage" and what is seen as "correct" and "diverse" only ever goes one way. Hence why White/European/Christian/Western societies are in such apparently dire need of Non White/Non European/Non Christian/Non Western/ "diversity" and "multiculturalism" and never the other way around.

But again we have to make a clear distinction between demographics like the one in that video and actual genuine asylum seekers. They're very different groups. You're not seeing East Asian or Muslim gangs acting like this. Sadly because of successive government's avoidance of the problem we're now stuck with a thankfully small urban population of the "riches of diversity"(of a certain kind). And unless government grows a pair it's not going to get better. Though at least we did get to vote to close that loophole, but some are calling for that to be changed because it was "wacist!!".

Going on all the previous and current experiences of other European nations that are dealing with this nonsense for decades and generations what we'll see is even more "White flight" from such urban areas and decent hard working educated Black folks will leave too, a consolidation of ghettoisation and criminality and eternal hand wringing from the usual quarters about racism and non solutions. Rinse and repeat.

kildare lad

kildare lad wrote: »

I tend to think their kids are more influenced by American / British street gang culture rather than African culture. Theres something seriously wrong with either culture or parenting if you've gangs of them running amok with knives and bats . How many of their parents do you reckon own the houses that they live in , in balbriggan ?

Well, if you look at African American culture in the US they've combined aspects of African culture (what they perceive as being African anyway), with western behaviors, ultimately creating a different culture from both. Sure, there's the influence of the hiphop fashions (I don't mean clothes) but there's more to it.

The same can be seen with young migrants throughout Europe who draw upon their ethnic culture in parts creating a fusion alongside aspects of European cultures. The best example, for me, would be France, since you can easily see African migrants (not Algerians, but plenty others) who have adopted the common ways in which people express themselves. At the core, though, they've retained the values/perceptions of their ethnic group, or religion.

In a globalised world, we're going to see more of that because the internet/social media is an enabler of this kind of exploration of cultures, especially once we factor in the revisionism that happens about history.

As for the gangs, it's mostly issues with socio-economic concerns. England had problems with gangs long before migration became an issue, with the gangs usually coming from the extreme poor or poorly educated. The fact is that many migrant groups end up in the west as the poorest members of society, needing to work very long hours, and their children aren't monitored. The same happens with many working class families.

TBH we're experiencing a crisis with parenting both due to lack of education (parents aren't taught to be good parents), but also due to the rising costs of society which mean that parents are often unavailable to be parents. Traditionally, the community or grandparents would step in to manage children, but community spirit has been dying for decades now, and in many cases, people are living far from the grandparents, so there's little support available.

We, as a society, really need to look at the society that we are creating. Not for the migrants, but also for ourselves. Hard questions need to be asked, and a serious appraisal of the future consequences of these changes, whether they're happening intentionally, or "naturally". We need to be sure that this is the society we want to introduce migrants into, because, from my POV, we're setting ourselves up for a world of pain later.

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, if you look at African American culture in the US they've combined aspects of African culture (what they perceive as being African anyway), with western behaviors, ultimately creating a different culture from both. Sure, there's the influence of the hiphop fashions (I don't mean clothes) but there's more to it.

The same can be seen with young migrants throughout Europe who draw upon their ethnic culture in parts creating a fusion alongside aspects of European cultures. The best example, for me, would be France, since you can easily see African migrants (not Algerians, but plenty others) who have adopted the common ways in which people express themselves. At the core, though, they've retained the values/perceptions of their ethnic group, or religion.

In a globalised world, we're going to see more of that because the internet/social media is an enabler of this kind of exploration of cultures, especially once we factor in the revisionism that happens about history.

As for the gangs, it's mostly issues with socio-economic concerns. England had problems with gangs long before migration became an issue, with the gangs usually coming from the extreme poor or poorly educated. The fact is that many migrant groups end up in the west as the poorest members of society, needing to work very long hours, and their children aren't monitored. The same happens with many working class families.

TBH we're experiencing a crisis with parenting both due to lack of education (parents aren't taught to be good parents), but also due to the rising costs of society which mean that parents are often unavailable to be parents. Traditionally, the community or grandparents would step in to manage children, but community spirit has been dying for decades now, and in many cases, people are living far from the grandparents, so there's little support available.

We, as a society, really need to look at the society that we are creating. Not for the migrants, but also for ourselves. Hard questions need to be asked, and a serious appraisal of the future consequences of these changes, whether they're happening intentionally, or "naturally". We need to be sure that this is the society we want to introduce migrants into, because, from my POV, we're setting ourselves up for a world of pain later.

Young lads armed with baseball bats and knives running around attacking other similar groups on the street is 100% on their own shoulders.

It's not societies fault. I wouldn't be giving such an easy out . Personal responsibility

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Young lads armed with baseball bats and knives running around attacking other similar groups on the street is 100% on their own shoulders.

It's not societies fault. I wouldn't be giving such an easy out . Personal responsibility

Oh, I agree that people should have 100% responsibility for their choices/behavior.

However, society and culture plays a significant role in the development of individuals, and... groups. Especially once peer pressure, and the perception of the "value" regarding violence. People need to be educated and society is the primary way in which that happens, since parents are often no longer in the home enough to provide that role.

It is society's fault though, that we have no effective means to deter crime in youths. The move away from corporal punishment, the inadequacy of many prison systems, the aversion to actually punishing people, are all strong factors in why people behave this way. They feel that they can get away with such behavior, and in many cases, they can. The responsibility for that rests with society, because of social/cultural changes implemented by society.

ThunbergsAreGo

kildare lad wrote: »

Good to see balbriggan embracing multiculturalism and it's great to see the African teenagers bring such a vibrancy to the town . I'm sure the locals are loving it

https://www.facebook.com/518620081515968/posts/3697676820276929/

Great to see hurleys everywhere, really embracing Irish traditions.

Cant wait to see the RTE story on it

"Since coming to Ireland XXXs family has really embraced Irish traditions. Falling in love with the game of hurling so much, he carries he hurley everywhere with him, into shopping centres, restaurants always looking for a quick puc"

Slowyourrole

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Exactly proves my point that if you work hard you can get a job, skin colour is not a determining factor, glad we agree. Unless you can post facts that a person did not get a job because of skin colour, cso figures dont count as they merely say who is unemployed not why. BTW where did i say racism doesn't exist- please show me as some of ye woke people love putting words in peoples mouths to create the outrage in them crazy minds.

So you agree racism exists? Thanks for proving my point.

Wibbs wrote: »

Pretty much. As I said earlier: Mostly the feel good factor, with a higher chance(when compared to illegal/quasi legal economic migrants) of extra skillsets that you would have with legal migration. So no, all things being equal they're not of great benefit overall, but are of more benefit and less risk of the usual multicultural nonsense than illegal economic migrants.

And that's why I find your position so insincere. If it really was a cost benefit thing, then you'd be equally, or at least almost equally, as against refugees. But you aren't. So it comes down to who you feel is more deserving. And that's perfectly fine. But don't go pretending it's about the benefit to the country unless you are going to be consistent about that.

Deleted User wrote: »

You're as subtle as a brick and incapable of understanding nuance. Which is why you take things out of context...

I wasn't trying to be subtle. I'm pointing out your hypocrisy and bias.

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The papers must be lying about the stabbing and the video must be faked because according to some on here, there are no gangs in Balbriggan.

Did someone argue there were no gangs in Balbriggan? I thought the main argument was that there are, and the gangs made up mostly of black people differ from other gangs in their skin colour only. So why are people so much more upset about them?

dominatinMC

What I find most damning, whenever a link is posted here illustrating the behaviour of the "new irish", is the lack of commentary from the defence. They're very quick to dismiss other points of view on this thread with the usual buzzwords of "racist", "bigot", etc. but when actual tangible evidence is posted, they are nowhere to be found. The silence is deafening.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, if you look at African American culture in the US they've combined aspects of African culture (what they perceive as being African anyway), with western behaviors, ultimately creating a different culture from both. Sure, there's the influence of the hiphop fashions (I don't mean clothes) but there's more to it.

The same can be seen with young migrants throughout Europe who draw upon their ethnic culture in parts creating a fusion alongside aspects of European cultures. The best example, for me, would be France, since you can easily see African migrants (not Algerians, but plenty others) who have adopted the common ways in which people express themselves. At the core, though, they've retained the values/perceptions of their ethnic group, or religion.

In a globalised world, we're going to see more of that because the internet/social media is an enabler of this kind of exploration of cultures, especially once we factor in the revisionism that happens about history.

As for the gangs, it's mostly issues with socio-economic concerns. England had problems with gangs long before migration became an issue, with the gangs usually coming from the extreme poor or poorly educated. The fact is that many migrant groups end up in the west as the poorest members of society, needing to work very long hours, and their children aren't monitored. The same happens with many working class families.

TBH we're experiencing a crisis with parenting both due to lack of education (parents aren't taught to be good parents), but also due to the rising costs of society which mean that parents are often unavailable to be parents. Traditionally, the community or grandparents would step in to manage children, but community spirit has been dying for decades now, and in many cases, people are living far from the grandparents, so there's little support available.

We, as a society, really need to look at the society that we are creating. Not for the migrants, but also for ourselves. Hard questions need to be asked, and a serious appraisal of the future consequences of these changes, whether they're happening intentionally, or "naturally". We need to be sure that this is the society we want to introduce migrants into, because, from my POV, we're setting ourselves up for a world of pain later.

So where are the Asian teen gangs? The polish teen gangs?? Etc

dominatinMC

Slowyourrole wrote: »

So you agree racism exists? Thanks for proving my point.





And that's why I find your position so insincere. If it really was a cost benefit thing, then you'd be equally, or at least almost equally, as against refugees. But you aren't. So it comes down to who you feel is more deserving. And that's perfectly fine. But don't go pretending it's about the benefit to the country unless you are going to be consistent about that.





I wasn't trying to be subtle. I'm pointing out your hypocrisy and bias.





Did someone argue there were no gangs in Balbriggan? I thought the main argument was that there are, and the gangs made up mostly of black people differ from other gangs in their skin colour only. So why are people so much more upset about them?

Of course, people will be "upset" about the action of any gang, whether they are black, white, or yellow. But the whole basis for this thread is to debate the merits of multiculturalism, and when a symptom of multiculturalism is the importing of this kind of gang culture, it begs the question - why would anyone want it? Yes, we have our own problems, but why seek more by importing them from abroad?

Clarence Boddiker

Just a couple of weeks ago the media were telling us that the idea of gangs causing trouble in Balbriggan was a 'far right conspiracy theory'

Slowyourrole

Slowyourrole wrote: »

I wasn't trying to be subtle. I'm pointing out your hypocrisy and bias.

Everyone has bias.. so.. well done there. As for hypocrisy, nah.. you didn't show any such thing. You took a sentence completely out of context to score some imaginary points in your game of being virtuous.

Beyond this though, I'm no longer going to respond to your posts, because you haven't contributed anything to the thread itself except for judgments about posters.

Niallof9

regardless of race this is a joke - https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/stabbing-video-balbriggan-gardai-dublinbreakingnews-18805023

the lack of physical police presence in our towns and cities will come back to bite us very soon imo no matter what color the scum are.

The lassez faire attitude will work only for so long.

Personally living in Ballybough i'm ****ing sick of the lack of policing.

enricoh

weldoninhio wrote: »

Castlemills Shopping Centre in Balbriggan got another dose of “diversity” the other night. Cars smashed up as the diverse had running battles with each other. Videos all over Facebook. I’ve no idea how to put a FB video up here.

I take it that's the dunnes stores one. Was dating a girl that was in one of the apartments behind it about 10 years ago. The writing was on the wall for that place even back then. It was always a bonus up there when my car was as I left it the evening before!
Feel sorry for anyone with a mortgage up there, it'd be a long 35 years!