What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

A lot of the pro-multiculturalists posting here are atin the best case, basing their opinion on having worked with "foreigners" ( for want of a better description ) or live beside them. But they have never actually worked or lived abroad in the Countries these people came from. And if they had then they would not be so quick to champion "Multiculturalism", and that's for sure, even if they are doing it with the best of intentions. We need to hold on to the Irish society we know and have grown up in, warts and all. Once you start bowing down to people who are easily "offended" and changing things to suit them, thats the thin end of the wedge...just try living in their Countries and being "offended" and see where that gets you...and you will see lots of things that will offend you.

The interesting thing is that "multiculturalism" the way the pro crowd peddle it, doesn't exist outside of western nations. Throughout Asia, M.East, and Africa, other cultures are allowed in but no culture is allowed to change the existing system. Elements of foreign culture are adopted to limited extents but the original culture remains dominant. I, honestly, can't think of a foreign nation (especially from anywhere we get significant numbers of migrants from) where multiculturalism is encouraged.

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

The foreigners are great stuff that these types push, is based on the flawed theory that assumes that anyone who opposes multiculturalism in any form is someone who hates foreigners, which is nonsense. I'm no wishy washy humanitarian, but I take everyone as I find them. I don't hate someone until I've been given a reason to hate someone. You can easily love foreign individuals, while holding the position that too many of them would simply erode our cultural values. You simply can't replace one group with another group and expect the ship to continue sailing in the same direction.

Well, I love living abroad in foreign cultures (out of 43 years, I've spent 15 of them living abroad, not backpacking but living in foreign cities), and I'd be one of the biggest opponents of multiculturalism as it currently exists.

It's this wishy washy type of multiculturalism that I have issues with. This naive approach that fails to recognise the differences between various cultures. European cultures share similarities due to history and religion, which makes a multicultural society very possible. But we don't have any similar common ground with peoples from the M.East or Africa... so, hard questions should be asked about how integration would occur, and what frictions would arise from them being here.

RandomName2

An Indian asylum seeker has received a bit of publicity after getting into law in UCD.

https://irishlegal.com/article/asylum-seeker-wins-ucd-scholarship?fbclid=IwAR3dFo01mWIrHKyNhwjWqmlaZLyykALDhJ35nYkxxsK3hNTjxk_ZuyTRI9c

He states that the Leaving Certificate was the most stressful period in his life to date. He presumably didn't do very well in that examination (understandable since he probably only had a year to study for it) but was given free education in UCD in the university's Open Learning, which is designed for people who don’t yet qualify for entry to an undergraduate degree. After this he obtained a Certificate in Business Studies at Drogheda Institute of Further Education, again presumably for free.

Using these qualifications he has met the requirements to enter Law in UCD, and has had all fees waived as he is an asylum seeker.

Meanwhile anyone from India who is applying to study Law in UCD, who is not an asylum seeker, has to pay €19900 a year, as well as accommodation (accommodation is free if you are in direct provision). On top of this he gets free meals and travel. Even if his asylum application is eventually refused (which it may well be if the leaving certificate was worse than anything he was fleeing) he will still have received a top level education where he can get hired anywhere in the world in the meantime. Clearly getting a student visa is for suckers.

Meanwhile UCD generates a story to offset sexual harassment headlines.

Cordell

Mr Shaikh said he is also interested in corporate law

Well, this suits his lack of ethics and respect for the law and people.

ExMachina1000

Just curious as to whether Irish people with African backgrounds call themselves Irish or African Irish like they do in the states?

Anyone know?

In America you would see black people call themselves African American rather than just American. These people might have never even been out of their own town! They aren't African at all. Not one bit.
They are defining their nationality through their skin colour. Immediately they are saying I am different to other Americans. I am not the same as you.
You are American or Irish or African etc

You are not both. We are the same

kravmaga

https://extra.ie/2020/07/29/news/irish-news/irish-people-black-people-ireland-survey

ExMachina1000

kravmaga wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2020/07/29/news/irish-news/irish-people-black-people-ireland-survey

"Half of people "

The study actually shows a clear majority.

kravmaga

Yes.

However I think Irish people are afraid to make there true views known in case they are called out for being Racist according to the article.

I know there is major anti social issues in Balbriggan and Tyrellstown with black youths in gangs engaged in fighting on a regular basis.

Future Brixtons imo

Sand

Cork_Guest wrote: »

These are one and the same thing, the ‘change’ is what you are saying is happening in Western Europe because of a huge influx of migrants, that is what people are saying they are afraid of happening here so therefore they are scared of change.

Climate change is change. Are people concerned about climate change scared of change?

There is nothing honest in the attempt to smear concerns about mass migration as some phobia about change more generally, as if people are some type of luddite.

Sand

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Just curious as to whether Irish people with African backgrounds call themselves Irish or African Irish like they do in the states?

Anyone know?

Not Ireland, but in our neighbors across the water I've seen on-the-street interviews carried out with British Africans who were asked if they identified as being African or British/English. They overwhelmingly identified as being African which stands to reason.

TomTomTim

Sand wrote: »

Climate change is change. Are people concerned about climate change scared of change?

There is nothing honest in the attempt to smear concerns about mass migration as some phobia about change more generally, as if people are some type of luddite.

Exactly, not all change is equal. Mass immigration will, and already has, brought negative change. Having a nice foreign friend and whatever high that may bring you, is completely overridden by the people who end up murdered, raped and robbed by some of our new guests. It's really simple, no one in the west should have to suffer because of immigration policies that have been forced on them.

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Just curious as to whether Irish people with African backgrounds call themselves Irish or African Irish like they do in the states?

Anyone know?

In America you would see black people call themselves African American rather than just American. These people might have never even been out of their own town! They aren't African at all. Not one bit.
They are defining their nationality through their skin colour. Immediately they are saying I am different to other Americans. I am not the same as you.
You are American or Irish or African etc

You are not both. We are the same

I know a family from Ethiopia who have been here for about two decades, and have full citizenship. The kids were born here. The whole family would identify themselves as Ethiopians, not Irish, and I've never seen them really try to learn or adapt to Irish society.

I only know them because I taught the father business level English, although he still works in a landscaping firm as an employee. (They're also friendly with my parents). Nice family, but they're essentially expats here. Living in a bubble of their own making.

Oh, and while I know many people with dual nationality, or are migrants themselves, I've never heard anyone claim anything like the Americans do with American Irish, or American Italian. I think it's just Americans who think that way.

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know a family from Ethiopia who have been here for about two decades, and have full citizenship. The kids were born here. The whole family would identify themselves as Ethiopians, not Irish, and I've never seen them really try to learn or adapt to Irish society.

I only know them because I taught the father business level English, although he still works in a landscaping firm as an employee. (They're also friendly with my parents). Nice family, but they're essentially expats here. Living in a bubble of their own making.

Oh, and while I know many people with dual nationality, or are migrants themselves, I've never heard anyone claim anything like the Americans do with American Irish, or American Italian. I think it's just Americans who think that way.

If they are only second generation its understandable not to identify as Irish and take an interest in Irish culture like sports and music.

But some in America go back much further yet they are still referred to as African Americans. It immediately sets that not all Americans are the same. That there are different groups. Drop the difference. Anyone from the United states is American. They are all the same.

_Kaiser_

Two stories on the news tonight. One being the fires in the Greek camp overnight (arson a possibility apparently) and the second a video message from a black rapper I've never heard of to a school in Dublin calling for more BLM awareness.

The first, I'd be asking if the 3 separate attacks came from within to try and force the issue and fast track their access to Europe.

The second I'd be suggesting has no place here. We are not America with its generations of racial issues and tensions (only getting worse) and we should not be importing their problems and divisive positions.

Sand

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

If they are only second generation its understandable not to identify as Irish and take an interest in Irish culture like sports and music.

But some in America go back much further yet they are still referred to as African Americans. It immediately sets that not all Americans are the same. That there are different groups. Drop the difference. Anyone from the United states is American. They are all the same.

That's a nice dream. But its clearly not a realistic assessment of the ethnic strife that is currently tearing the US apart. From an Irish perspective, why would anyone wish to emulate the US is beyond me.

Kivaro

There was a substantial disparity in the way that the migrant camp fire in Lesbos today was reported by the Irish Media and their European counterparts. This morning, the Irish media reported about the fire with very little facts, and with the main point of the report being the overcrowding at the facility. Even on France24 this morning, they reported that the fire was suspected to be started by the migrants themselves and they also reported that the migrants forcefully stopped the Greek fire service from trying to put it out. That is why you see pictures of Greek police in riot gear, as they went there to protect the Greek fire personnel from attack. The main Irish media outlets did not tell us the full story.

This incident begs the question about the migrants who were already provided sheltered/food/care by the Greeks, who then proceeded to burn down an entire facility that housed thousands of them, and forcefully stopped the local fire service from responding to the fire. Would it be wise for any European country to accept this type of migrant?

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

If they are only second generation its understandable not to identify as Irish and take an interest in Irish culture like sports and music.

I don't agree. If you make the move to citizenship, then, that's it. You've changed your nationality and should be embracing the national culture. Otherwise they're simply there for economic benefits, in which case, they should simply have residency as an expat type.

But some in America go back much further yet they are still referred to as African Americans. It immediately sets that not all Americans are the same. That there are different groups. Drop the difference. Anyone from the United states is American. They are all the same.

Diversity. Division.

The problem is that national/cultural pride for white people is a bad thing, linked to the evils of nationalism and white supremacy. Even in Ireland where we have zero history of white supremacy, the same links have been made about people who promote national pride, because we are historically a white culture. However, non-whites are encouraged to feel pride in their own cultures before they or their ancestors came to that western nation.

Irish Americans don't really understand the reality that is Ireland. They're stuck on Darby O'Gill, the IRA, the romantic notions, because most of them have never spent any real time here, and as such, their expressions of being "Irish" are more in line with America, than Ireland.

But I would agree, that anyone born or has citizenship in the US, is American, but they don't see it that way. They're incredibly divided.. and those divisions are encouraged to widen.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Two stories on the news tonight. One being the fires in the Greek camp overnight (arson a possibility apparently) and the second a video message from a black rapper I've never heard of to a school in Dublin calling for more BLM awareness.

The first, I'd be asking if the 3 separate attacks came from within to try and force the issue and fast track their access to Europe.

The second I'd be suggesting has no place here. We are not America with its generations of racial issues and tensions (only getting worse) and we should not be importing their problems and divisive positions.

BLM have led the way on this. Peaceful protests don't capture the attention of society, so they encourage "alternative" expressions to capture that attention (nope, I don't want to make this into a tit-for-tat scrap about BLM activities) The BLM mandate calls for all manner of ways to attract attention.

So, it stands to reason that migrants would follow suit because they know they can tug on the heart-strings of westerners. It won't be long before we see a pile of photos of children who are lacking facilities, due to this arson, and the reasons will be dismissed, in favor of blaming the authorities. And it will work with many people who are looking for reasons to blame the authorities, while virtue signal their compassion for others who are less fortunate.

As for the rapper... it's the same as the professors who talk about racism. It's next to impossible to show that racism isn't really a common thing here. Those who don't engage in it aren't going to be noticed, whereas those who do, will be noticed. Especially, since the scope of what is included under racism has been expanded so much over the last two decades, and will likely expand again over the next few months. The extreme minority who show/express racist behavior (regardless of whether it's serious or not) will be used to represent the "hidden" majority... we've seen similar notions thrown around about subconscious bias for sexism, and Misogyny. People aren't aware that they are this way.. but others can tell what you're feeling/thinking. Yup.

It's going to happen.. because nobody is willing to promote simple common sense, and tell them to fck off with such nonsense.

biko

RandomName2 wrote: »

An Indian asylum seeker has received a bit of publicity after getting into law in UCD.

I wouldn't have thought India was a place from where people would flee but apparently in the 10 years between 2008 and 2018, the total number of such people rose 996.33 per cent.

United Nations data on asylum seekers for 2018 show that after the US and Canada, Indians prefer to seek political asylum in South Africa (4,329), followed by Australia (3,584), the UK (1,667), South Korea (1,657) and Germany (1,313).

At the same time people from 40 countries sought political asylum in India fearing threat to their lives in their native countries.


https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/996-rise-in-indians-seeking-political-asylum-in-past-10-years-1552869-2019-06-21

biko

biko wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought India was a place from where people would flee but apparently in the 10 years between 2008 and 2018, the total number of such people rose 996.33 per cent.

India's democracy isn't quite the same as western democracy, their views on caste, along with extreme corruption can make for a very difficult place to survive for some people. I can understand why some people would flee India... there's a lot of crazies with obscene wealth and power. TBH I'd also consider it a particularly dodgy country for a woman who didn't conform to the society or religious obligations... India does a good job of presenting a wonderful image to anyone who has never spent any time within the country itself. Been there once, and I've zero desire to ever return.. although I know lot's of people who loved it. I guess many people just don't see the same things. China taught me a lot about seeing power that's hidden, but known to exist. (not just the obvious displays).. India.. nah. I would definitely understand why some natives would want asylum in other countries.

biko

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Drop the difference. Anyone from the United states is American. They are all the same.

I agree, as do many black Americans.

But - there is 2.1 million real African Americans in US (that were born in an African country). Even then they are really Angolan American, Namibian American, etc.

Here we have a lot of English Irish, Welsh Irish and Scottish Irish, etc.

Kivaro

Another fire at the migrant camp in Lesbos last night. It appears that whatever structures/buildings survived the first fire 2 nights ago were deliberately set on fire to completely demolish the remaining shelter for the migrants. The Greek government said while an investigation has started, they said that it was the migrants themselves who set the fires due to their discontent with the virus lockdown.

Now we are hearing calls for European countries to take in these 12,500 migrants. I'm sure that the Irish NGOs and RTE will be kicking into top gear with their demands that Ireland takes in "our share".
It would be pure lunacy if arsonists and people who forcefully stop fire personnel from responding to the fires are rewarded with European citizenry. If criminal acts are rewarded, it will become the norm to gain access to our shores.

TomTomTim

Kivaro wrote: »

Another fire at the migrant camp in Lesbos last night. It appears that whatever structures/buildings survived the first fire 2 nights ago were deliberately set on fire to completely demolish the remaining shelter for the migrants. The Greek government said while an investigation has started, they said that it was the migrants themselves who set the fires due to their discontent with the virus lockdown.

Now we are hearing calls for European countries to take in these 12,500 migrants. I'm sure that the Irish NGOs and RTE will be kicking into top gear with their demands that Ireland takes in "our share".
It would be pure lunacy if arsonists and people who forcefully stop fire personnel from responding to the fires are rewarded with European citizenry. If criminal acts are rewarded, it will become the norm to gain access to our shores.

They are already at it, and of course the Journal.ie gave them a platform for their propaganda.

seenitall

Unbelievable. Let’s reward thuggery and criminality by pacifying it and letting it have exactly its own way, at the expense of our societies and our future generations. Also, give any proactive thug at large in the world a good example of how to get to the land of honey the quickest: get to Greece, set your accommodation on fire, and you’re in. Reminds me of the images of these fine ‘refugees’ making their children cry by fumigating them, in order to elicit sympathy. No deed is too low, and this is what is being welcomed here.

As someone who was raised in Eastern Europe, maybe it’s a cultural gap too wide to bridge, but I am constanly perplexed by that do-gooder instinct so prominent in the West, the easily foreseeable consequences of which so obviously go against the peace and prosperity of their own societies.

TomTomTim

seenitall wrote: »

As someone who was raised in Eastern Europe, maybe it’s a cultural gap too wide to bridge, but I am constanly perplexed by that do-gooder instinct so prominent in the West, the easily foreseeable consequences of which so obviously go against the peace and prosperity of their own societies.

These people literally don't even see a relationship between quality of life and mass immigration. They honestly believe that we can take an endless amount of people in, and have no decline in life quality at all.

Sand

TomTomTim wrote: »

These people literally don't even see a relationship between quality of life and mass immigration. They honestly believe that we can take an endless amount of people in, and have no decline in life quality at all.

They don't even think about it. They'll do anything in their power to avoid considering it and will accept any claim or premise gratefully if it means they don't have to think and draw a conclusion. It's easier for them to simply go along with the dogmatic messaging from every TV show, every magazine article, every lecturer in their college courses, every talking head, every corporation and every political lobbyist. They don't question any of it.

Hamachi

seenitall wrote: »

As someone who was raised in Eastern Europe, maybe it’s a cultural gap too wide to bridge, but I am constantly perplexed by that do-gooder instinct so prominent in the West, the easily foreseeable consequences of which so obviously go against the peace and prosperity of their own societies.

I share your sense of disbelief. It's totally perplexing that there are individuals and organizations, who actively champion the rights of these thugs to access our societies. Clearly, the NGOs have a financial stake in ensuring that this charade continues. However, I simply can't fathom the motivations of individuals who support this on-going influx of the lowest possible caliber of migrants.

To be fair to the general population in Ireland, I don't believe that this 'do-gooder' instinct is particularly prevalent. The narrative around migration is so tightly controlled by politicians, the media, and NGOs that zero criticism or dissent is countenanced. The mass influx of non-EU migrants to Ireland is one of the greatest challenges facing this country. Yet there is zero discussion or debate. All we get are puff pieces in the media proclaiming the virtues of all immigration or a vicious attack on those rare individuals who challenge the prevailing narrative.

Of course, they know the true feeling of the general Irish public. Whilst not a direct proxy for their opinions on non-EU immigration, the results of the 27th constitutional amendment vote in 2004, provided a pretty solid indicator of the sentiment amongst the general Irish population. More than 79% of the electorate chose to remove the right to jus soli citizenship, after witnessing the abuse of our immigration laws and the subversion of our asylum system for the previous 5/6 years. Frankly, the results in favor would be even higher in 2020.

This terrifies the NGOs and the media. Their response is to try to continually narrow the Overton window. Strictly control all discourse around migration to try to push through their idiotic agendas. I suspect that this strategy will continue to work in the short term. However, there will be an inevitable backlash when the Irish people finally realize the true scale of the demographic change that has been imposed upon them by faceless entities like NGOs.

Eric Cartman

Kivaro wrote: »

Another fire at the migrant camp in Lesbos last night. It appears that whatever structures/buildings survived the first fire 2 nights ago were deliberately set on fire to completely demolish the remaining shelter for the migrants. The Greek government said while an investigation has started, they said that it was the migrants themselves who set the fires due to their discontent with the virus lockdown.

Now we are hearing calls for European countries to take in these 12,500 migrants. I'm sure that the Irish NGOs and RTE will be kicking into top gear with their demands that Ireland takes in "our share".
It would be pure lunacy if arsonists and people who forcefully stop fire personnel from responding to the fires are rewarded with European citizenry. If criminal acts are rewarded, it will become the norm to gain access to our shores.

I think its not even vaguely the realm of conspiracy to suggest that the greeks have seen the abject failure of taking these migrants and the government probably has more than a passing hand in those fires starting, intending to shift the problem on to somebody else.

Wibbs

Hamachi wrote: »

Of course, they know the true feeling of the general Irish public. Whilst not a direct proxy for their opinions on non-EU immigration, the results of the 27th constitutional amendment vote in 2004, provided a pretty solid indicator of the sentiment amongst the general Irish population. More than 79% of the electorate chose to remove the right to jus soli citizenship, after witnessing the abuse of our immigration laws and the subversion of our asylum system for the previous 5/6 years. Frankly, the results in favor would be even higher in 2020.

This terrifies the NGOs and the media. Their response is to try to continually narrow the Overton window. Strictly control all discourse around migration to try to push through their idiotic agendas. I suspect that this strategy will continue to work in the short term. However, there will be an inevitable backlash when the Irish people finally realize the true scale of the demographic change that has been imposed upon them by faceless entities like NGOs.

And successive governments too with precious few dissenting voices from our leadership. It does beg the wider question of why? Why is this narrative being so heavily pushed? The demographic decline might go over in some Western European nations, but it doesn't apply here, though is still trotted out as one reason because they're all playing from the same "multiculturalist" playbook and don't even bother to tweak it for this country. Another is some white guilt ballsology about bad Whitey and empires, again not applicable here. Never mind that it makes eff all sense to blame people today for what their ancestors may or may not have done. If I meet a German I don't blame them for Belsen, or a Russian for the gulags. It would be beyond moronic and we should be well past that sins of the father bronze age idiocy. Black Africans get a pass on this score, yet White Europeans don't. Funny that. There's even some going on about how Ireland was always "multicultural", which is another nonsense and what "diversity" that was present was a hot crucible for division and often armed strife and misery.

I really don't get it and would love someone to explain this to me. Again why is it that it is exclusively White Western ostensibly "Christian" Europeans that require this "diversity" and of a particular kind too, the darker and more culturally different the better.

biko

As long as Ireland doesn't have a immigration referendum to guide the politicians they can easily be pushed around by EU bureaucrats or opinion writers in the Journal.