What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

irishblessing

Hamachi wrote: »

Actually, I was the poster who made the statement ‘no dice’ in relation to economic migrants who seek to come to Ireland, without having the requisite skills. I own that statement and believe that it’s a sensible approach to economic migration. Whether you think that’s a cold / cold hearted approach to regulating migration is immaterial to me.

I believe my position is pretty strong and grounded in logic. The solution I proposed to asylum seeking certainly seemed to resonate with you. It’s always rewarding to find some common ground with somebody who appears to hold diametrically opposed views.

You can leave it as cold please, which is what I actually said. We'll agree to disagree on that point.

Yes, your solutions did indeed resonate with me. I do believe that we need sound immigration policy which doesn't of course massively disadvantage the people of our own country. Do you think anyone actually thinks otherwise? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but I just don't think the only consideration to asylum seeking is the skill one has on a CV. In every society there are those who have valuable contributions to a community. They can also do work that many highly educated/skilled (or otherwise) just won't do but is absolutely critically needed in our economy. People are also trainable with the right support.

I would also want countries to seek to help those who are displaced be able to return to their own countries. The problems often seem so insurmountable though, so I don't know how that could be achieved. People far smarter and more powerful than me haven't figured it out over the decades so I don't know what the solution is.

AllForIt

irishblessing wrote: »

Yes, your solutions did indeed resonate with me. I do believe that we need sound immigration policy which doesn't of course massively disadvantage the people of our own country. Do you think anyone actually thinks otherwise? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but I just don't think the only consideration to asylum seeking is the skill one has on a CV. In every society there are those who have valuable contributions to a community. They can also do work that many highly educated/skilled (or otherwise) just won't do but is absolutely critically needed in our economy. People are also trainable with the right support.

So you're happy to see a high incidence of black people here working in lower class jobs, shops etc OR give them free third level education.

irishblessing

AllForIt wrote: »

So you're happy to see a high incidence of black people here working in lower class jobs, shops etc OR give them free third level education.

What's a "lower class job?" Where did you extract any of that from anything I said. What's with the singling out of Black people anyway. Seems like a personal problem.

This thread is weird.

Hamachi

irishblessing wrote: »

Yes, your solutions did indeed resonate with me. I do believe that we need sound immigration policy which doesn't of course massively disadvantage the people of our own country. Do you think anyone actually thinks otherwise? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but I just don't think the only consideration to asylum seeking is the skill one has on a CV. In every society there are those who have valuable contributions to a community. They can also do work that many highly educated/skilled (or otherwise) just won't do but is absolutely critically needed in our economy. People are also trainable with the right support

You’re conflating two distinct strands of migration here (i) asylum seeking and (ii) economic migration. We’ve already agreed on a potentially equitable solution to the former. However, I do want to reiterate my point that asylum should not be re-framed as permanent resettlement. Europe’s capacity to assist the truly needy is finite. When conditions improve in the land of origin, those asylum seekers should be encouraged to return home.

My ‘no dice’ comment pertains to the latter. Economic migration, by its very nature, is intrinsically predicated on skills and the content of one’s CV. If Ireland identifies skills gaps in specific sectors e.g. tech, healthcare, we invite suitably qualified migrants to help fill those labour shortages. This cohort should be welcomed and provided with a transparent path to citizenship. However, there should be little tolerance for migrants entering the country on temporary visas e.g. language students from Latin America, who then persistently overstay after their visas have expired. If people do not fulfill the criteria for skilled migration, I stand by my ‘no dice’ comment. I also do not believe it is the responsibly of Ireland to provide support or education to migrants who have ostensibly presented themselves as skilled.

Migration is complex. There has to be a degree of compassion, tempered with the realism that the Irish and European peoples have a right to live in their homelands, without being subject to a demographic overhaul. I also believe that other developed nations outside Europe could step up more. The asylum intake of the US is relatively low. The affluent societies in the Far East, Japan and Korea for instance, admit virtually zero asylum seekers. Finally, the oil rich countries along the gulf of Arabia are actively hostile to asylum seeking, despite their economic strength. They could play a significant role, particularly in absorbing culturally compatible asylum seekers from majority Islamic societies.

Galwayguy35

irishblessing wrote: »

The federal government providing... :pac::pac::pac: The people of the US have received ONE payment of 1200 dollars since the pandemic began and a massive backlog of processing unemployment payments. Nearly three quarters of people in the US are one pay check away from homelessness and utter disaster. The richest country in the world provides for their military prowess and the top 1%. "They" voted for. Hilary Clinton actually, nearly 3million more people did. Do you not know this?

Yeah, I'm advocating for humanity and humaneness. Guilty as charged. Think about your own compassionate holes why don't you.

Before you get too smug about your amazing skills that allow you to live abroad, consider the fact that you received an education in a country that safely supported you to do so. Many don't have that opportunity.

Irish people commit crimes too. I only brought up that story to illustrate the point that people contribute positively to society in ways not pointing to a skill on their CV.

The migrants in Greece came there of their own free will, it was themselves who set fire to the camp and stopped emergency services getting access to it.

And now we are being asked to take these criminals in?

No thanks.

Rodney Bathgate

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The migrants in Greece came there of their own free will, it was themselves who set fire to the camp and stopped emergency services getting access to it.

And now we are being asked to take these criminals in?

No thanks.

Makes you wonder who really burnt down the centres in Ireland. Don’t want to be sent outside of Dublin e.g. to Rooskey? Burn it down so it can’t happen.

4068ac1elhodqr

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The migrants in Greece came there of their own free will, it was themselves who set fire to the camp and stopped emergency services getting access to it.

And now we are being asked to take these criminals in?

No thanks.

From memory think a TV news report said it was COVID positve lads that refused outright to isolate, who burnt down the place.

If this is the case, hold any assumption of those chaps wearing facemasks on public transport.

Beechwoodspark

Just said on news that Roderick O Gorman is considering taking migrants from the camp in Greece

The footage is alarming.

It showed gangs of aggressive men trying to ransack a truck

Let it be on o Gormans head if he imports MORE trouble into this country

ExMachina1000

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just said on news that Roderick O Gorman is considering taking migrants from the camp in Greece

The footage is alarming.

It showed gangs of men trying to ransack a truck

Let it be on o Gormans head if he imports MORE trouble into this country

Green party got 7% of the vote. Yet we ended up with him and Ryan in positions of power.

In real life he has no mandate. Banana republic

statesaver

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Green party got 7% of the vote. Yet we ended up with him and Ryan in positions of power.

In real life he has no mandate. Banana republic

Membership of less than 3000.

Beechwoodspark

The news is saying there are suspicions the migrants themselves set the camp on fire

This needs to be investigated urgently

Out of the question that the arsonists should be rewarded in any way

Hamachi

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just said on news that Roderick O Gorman is considering taking migrants from the camp in Greece

Absolutely appalling that O’Gorman is even considering taking in migrants from Moria. He has zero mandate to take decisions of this nature. If this comes to pass, the credibility of the Greens plummets to a new low.

irishblessing

irishblessing wrote: »

What's a "lower class job?" Where did you extract any of that from anything I said. What's with the singling out of Black people anyway. Seems like a personal problem.

This thread is weird.

It's extracted from where you expect 'other reasons', apart from a persons CV, as being acceptable in allowing migrants into Europe. It's an obvious connection to make considering your statements on the subject.

It's also obvious enough what a lower class job is, although it could have been phrased better. -- They're jobs which typically do not require much in the way of education or training, and as such, are paid substantially less than other jobs which do require levels of education, experience etc.

One of the problems with allowing migrants in irrespective of their education/skills, is that they will only be capable of doing the most basic of jobs. We already have a population of native people who, for various reasons, don't have the education/skills, or mindset to do higher level positions, and as such those lower skilled jobs are mostly occupied. When they're not, we do have labor from the EU with existing EU citizens capable of meeting those needs. Especially, since the economies of many southern nations within Europe do have economic problems, and fairly high unemployment, so there's little sense importing more unskilled labor from completely different cultures.

Leading on from that problem (unskilled/uneducated workforce), by bringing migrants who don't have the skills to be self-sufficient without extra benefits such as welfare, in addition to their basic wages... so, these people will require support by the Taxpayer for a long time.

Added to that, is the resentment that many such migrants will be bound to feel, because they're unable to experience the higher quality of living that most Irish people experience, because they can't afford to do so. Activist groups and NGO's plug the line about fairness for minorities, which is only going to encourage resentment because there's little emphasis on personal responsibility for the state of their lives. Instead, the expectation will be for the State to provide them with the income/benefits so that they can have a comparable kind of lifestyle as someone who is working professionally. When the State fails to meet such an unrealistic expectation, that resentment will transform into social instability... which has been seen in many European countries already.

And as for education, and training, I stated this earlier, which I guess you ignored... but throughout Europe, nations have had extremely mixed results with educating migrants to bring them up to a comparable level with other Europeans... and even greater failures in teaching the local language.

So.. if half of the migrants you want to be admitted, fail to upskill, or learn the language, who is expected to support them? And during the period it takes to attempt to educate them, who is supporting them financially? Learning a language well enough for work beyond the most basic routines takes years, especially if their own native language is so culturally different. (There's no guarantee either that the other half on acquiring the language/skills, will be able to get gainful employment)

Allowing in migrants for reasons other than their education/skills is extremely expensive to the taxpayer, with little evidence that the burden is diminished over time.. especially since migrant applications are likely to increase due to changing conditions in many of the countries we already see large applications from.

Sir Oxman

I think the reason O'Gorman is highlighted is that ireland have been asked to take in unaccompanied minors which falls under the Dept of Children, so I believe.

Sir Oxman

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I think the reason O'Gorman is highlighted is that ireland have been asked to take in unaccompanied minors which falls under the Dept of Children, so I believe.

They won't be unaccompanied for long. They'll have their extended families over quick enough after. One foot in the door before the whole gang crowds in. Makes sense to use our sympathies for small children as a way to get in.

tayto lover

I have no issues with people from other cultures coming to Ireland as long as they’re not here to freeload from my taxes. We have enough of our own wasters to look after.

Sir Oxman

Deleted User wrote: »

They won't be unaccompanied for long. They'll have their extended families over quick enough after. One foot in the door before the whole gang crowds in. Makes sense to use our sympathies for small children as a way to get in.

I just wanted to clear up why O'Gorman would be involved.

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

Oh, I’m so sorry that I don’t agree with you. Please add me to the basket of deplorables, along with the nazis, fascists, and other figments of your imagination.

The narrative around migration is changing. People aren’t willing to accept the platitudes that have been trotted out for the last several decades. You’re going to need a very large basket in future sir.

Who are these “people” you’re talking about.? So called “people” on here is it, yellow vest types is it?

TheCitizen

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The news is saying there are suspicions the migrants themselves set the camp on fire

This needs to be investigated urgently

Out of the question that the arsonists should be rewarded in any way

What news? Can you link to this story?

TheCitizen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You avoided the previous questions put to you, and chose to focus on Biko's suggestion about a referendum. Your response to me, had nothing to do with what I asked about, and so, I didn't bother replying to it.

As for being an echo chamber, that's only because those who, like you, want to disagree, don't commit to arguing your points, instead, only make vague statements and wander away... just to pop back in to dismiss others' contributions. Or try to connect us with stormfront, or make suggestions of racism, without, again, backing up your statements with anything approaching evidence.

And as for illustrating points... your responses continue to validate what I said previously about your presence on this thread.

Which previous questions were these that I avoided, I’m losing track? If I avoided previous questions or just had forgotten them what’s that to do with you avoiding my question? Is that you justifying refusing to answer my question?

bobbyy gee

I don't like
isms

Eircom_Sucks

Im sick of it

Would love to know the exact number who are here

TheCitizen

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Makes you wonder who really burnt down the centres in Ireland. Don’t want to be sent outside of Dublin e.g. to Rooskey? Burn it down so it can’t happen.

Amazing

TheCitizen

bobbyy gee wrote: »

I don't like
isms

Does that include humanitarianism, appears to be frowned with some on around here.

anotherfinemess

Multiculturalism is always a good thing, we benefit from learning about different skills and points of view, and not just in the culinary department.
The unprecedented high level of barely controlled mass immigration that Europe has been subjected to in recent decades is an unsustainable drain on our resources and a threat to our peace and security.

suicide_circus

anotherfinemess wrote: »

The unprecedented high level of barely controlled mass immigration that Europe has been subjected to in recent decades is an unsustainable drain on our resources and a threat to our peace and security.

Yeah but cheap labour for the consumer economy thats destroying the planet tho

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

Who are these “people” you’re talking about.? So called “people” on here is it, yellow vest types is it?

Nope; the general population.

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

Does that include humanitarianism, appears to be frowned with some on around here.

Indeed. It also includes realism, an alien concept to some.

Or perhaps egotism, evident in a failure to grasp that others hold contrary opinions to oneself and having no rebuttal, except to insult and slander your opponents.

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

Indeed. It also includes realism, an alien concept to some.

Or perhaps egotism, evident in a failure to grasp that others hold contrary opinions to oneself and having no rebuttal, except to insult and slander your opponents.

That’s the yellow vest brigade you’re describing there

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

Nope; the general population.

Hilarious and you’re talking about egotism. The general population is not calling for a Referendun on immigration as far as I’m aware