What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

TheCitizen

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Good riddance.

Rodders I've missed you

TheCitizen

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

You didn’t provide any proposals as far as I can see??

Edit: you’ve bowed out of the forum. Slàn Leat.

I did provide proposals, read my posts. Slán go fóill mo chara;)

briany

briany wrote: »

A processing center in North Africa sounds like a reasonable idea, although there would be more that needs working out.

You process the claim of someone without papers and decide their claim of asylum is bogus or insufficient. Do you send them away? Where to? Leave them in the processing center? How do you house an ever-growing population?

One center makes no sense, and Turkey isn't even remotely a reliable government to deal with. In any case, there would need to be multiples of processing centers throughout the M.East and Northern Africa, similar in the way, we have consulates. They should simply be offices which can interview, and appraise the initial applications, but there shouldn't be any housing for migrants involved. It sends the wrong image to be providing for people who haven't passed the first round of interviews/requirements.

For those who pass the first round, as asylum seekers, then they can be sent on to other offices within Europe, dependent on the desires of that particular country as to if they want to be involved or not. Once there, they have one month to prove their eligibility to asylum, otherwise they're returned to the office they applied at.

Appeals. A central office whose purpose is to process appeals. One appeal only. All appeals to be processed within one month of the application being made. If an appeal is denied, that is a permanent denial for entry. I think there should also be a monetary amount that migrants should have to pay to get an appeal, unless the original interviewers approve them for a free appeal hearing.

Economic migrants/refugees are required to go through the normal channels and are processed based on the value in skills/education to the target country.

Someone without papers hears that the processing center could be a dead-end for their hopes of getting to Europe. They manage to get directly to Europe, and that country sends them back to the processing center. See above paragraph.

Which is why we need a system to record all applications, with an easy way to identify applicants (to help later interviews/applications), and then a range of punishment for those who seek to bypass the system. I'm be perfectly fine with the EU paying other countries to provide prison accommodation to those who break the rules. First time caught, return to sender. Second time caught, a trial and imprisonment outside of Europe.

If their claim of asylum is found to be genuine, where do you send them to? Logically, you would have to send them to different countries, as I'm guessing no one country would want to, or could, take them all. Do you have a scheme where every country has to take a certain amount? How would countries like this? Did they like it when Merkel was talking about European countries taking a certain proportion of Syrian refugees?

Countries should be able to choose to be part of any such system of receiving the migrants approved by the system. A limited number of acceptable applicants during a year, with those of each culture group being separated so that there is no concentration of their culture groups in a particular country. If the max number is reached, with asylum having been given, the people can be flown to another country that accepts asylum seekers such as in Asia. There should also be an expiry date on asylum, with the onus being on the seeker to prove that their lives are still in danger.

And as I said previously, there should be a case officer to track all migrants and asylum seekers as they enter the country, so that their behavior is monitored, but also to ensure that they have what is needed to integrate and find employment (to get them completely off state benefits)

weldoninhio

TheCitizen wrote: »

So you're going to tar them all with the one brush, is that it? Everyone in the camp was responsible for setting the fires and then trying to stop the firefighters?

Have any of them come forward and pointed out the arsonists?

Actually, just to add something. I think what western nations should consider doing, is leasing large tracts of land in a variety of African countries.

Those migrants (economic and war refugees) that come to Europe with basic skills/education, should be sent to prepared camps, where the migrants would receive a limited period during which they can learn to farm, and learn other skills. For those with the aptitude, then there should be higher level educational programs to teach computing, languages, business, etc. But not just education for primary jobs, but also educating people about governance, logistics, urban planning, etc. During that limited period, they would be appraised on their ability to learn, with there being levels, each level providing a greater degree of education to the participants.

If they fail the education, or pass a certain level, then they're moved to a second area, where co-op farms have been set up. Workshops. Basic businesses to meet the needs of a local community. With a small budget to get things started but the expectation would be on the migrants to get the farms, shops, workshops, etc all working to the level where they provide for the community.

If people choose to leave, they're barred from returning, or from entrance into Europe. Those who stay, and obtain a decent level of education could be given an apprenticeship period in Europe to develop their skills further, but ultimately they would be returned to their original country, with the aim of them helping its development.

We need to be moving away from Europe as being the only target. We need migrants to return to their own countries to develop them socially, culturally and economically. Every time that western nations or western organisations have tried to implement change directly in African countries, it's failed and generated more grievance towards westerners. It simply doesn't work. However, educating Africans (or those from the M.East or S.America) actually does work... especially if the option to enter Europe is limited. Stop the brain drain.

And most importantly keep it far away from the NGOs, and activists. Cooperative work between businesses and state bodies instead, with real oversight into funding, expenditure, etc. Streamline the whole thing, and not throw money around for face saving exercises.... (And yes, I've taught as a volunteer a variety of times, and my suggestions are based on what I've seen)

jmreire

weldoninhio wrote: »

Have any of them come forward and pointed out the arsonists?

According to Reuters, 5 have been arrested, and they are still looking for a 6th. So some where along the line, some one spilled the beans.

ExMachina1000

TheCitizen wrote: »

I guess there's a wider consequence for major western democracies electing arseholes like Trump and Johnson as premiers. The far right loons become emboldened, moderate and reasoned opinion becomes marginalised especially online, even what was previously called the centre right or conservative opinion, ridiculed with terms like "cuckservative". The lunatics have taken over the asylum and hysteria reigns as certain agendas like this anti immigration stuff and buttons are pushed.

I promised myself I wouldn't get sucked in to this spiral of bullshít that passes for debate on here :pac:. Slán a chara, enjoy your echo chamber.

I take it you won't be sharing your plan then?

Abuse only is the modus operandi. Not surprising

Pixel Eater

TheCitizen wrote: »

I guess there's a wider consequence for major western democracies electing arseholes like Trump and Johnson as premiers. The far right loons become emboldened, moderate and reasoned opinion becomes marginalised especially online, even what was previously called the centre right or conservative opinion, ridiculed with terms like "cuckservative". The lunatics have taken over the asylum and hysteria reigns as certain agendas like this anti immigration stuff and buttons are pushed.

I promised myself I wouldn't get sucked in to this spiral of bullshít that passes for debate on here :pac:. Slán a chara, enjoy your echo chamber.

Actually I believe it was the 'left's' naive, judgemental and sanctimonious attitudes towards immigration that have partly feuled the rise of the far right. A lot of moderates with some concerns about immigration felt they had no choice but to vote for them even if they never previously would have.

Pixel Eater

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Actually I believe it was the 'left's' naive, judgemental and sanctimonious attitudes towards immigration that have partly feuled the rise of the far right. A lot of moderates with some concerns about immigration felt they had no choice but to vote for them even if they never previously would have.

There's a certain laziness in the use of the term "far/alt" right as if they're the same everyone with the same motivations/agendas. The "far right" in Ireland (tiny as they are, except for leftist fantasies) are more interested in nationalism and the rights/life quality for Irish people, than the "far right" in Germany where nationalism has racial undertones.

Ireland has no history of racial superiority or the desire to conquer other nationalities under the guise of nationalism, so the drive of the "far right" in Ireland, has little in common with that of Germany, and the US (historical race issues, and superiority).

Those who harp on about the Far right in Ireland want people to believe that they're the same because it justifies their own extremist beliefs. It's a blanket description, with no nuance or detail. Dumbing down issues to the most basic level because that's easier to sell to the masses.... which goes back to their historic links with Marxism, unions, and such.

People would laugh if we tried to connect the left with Stalin and his purges... and rightly so... however, it depends on which left we're talking about. The funny thing is that those who are called "far right" in threads, tend to be far more specific and detailed in their posts, than those who support the leftist principle issues.

The far right in Ireland are simply the conservative groups of old. Oh, sure, there are some extremists, and nutjobs, but that's the case everywhere. They're an extreme minority... because their attitudes don't reflect the values of our cultural backgrounds.

Sand

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, just to add something. I think what western nations should consider doing, is leasing large tracts of land in a variety of African countries.

I think there is legal difficulties with effectively deporting people from one country to another. An alternative would be to use European territories outside Europe (i.e. Caribbean, South America, Pacific Islands etc) for processing.

However, the aim of processing should be simply to return illegal migrants to their own countries and providing temporary refuge for genuine asylum seekers. I don't agree with creating an additional 'pull' factor for mass migration by offering free training, education and job skills for anyone who attempts to illegally enter Europe. And lets face it, the concept of Europeans teaching non-Europeans to be civilized isnt going to survive contact with post-colonial guilt.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

I think there is legal difficulties with effectively deporting people from one country to another. An alternative would be to use European territories outside Europe (i.e. Caribbean, South America, Pacific Islands etc) for processing.

I don't consider it as deportation since that would assume that they have a right to be there. Only asylum seekers, have a special status. Economic and other refugees who seek entry without permission are illegal, and so can be sent wherever.

In any case, I would imagine that the existance of such offices in foreign nations along the normal paths that migrants take would seriously slim down the numbers, because the people who are looking for resettlement and a chance to start again, would be covered by the initiative. It's just those who are firmly fixated on Europe as a destination who would avoid the centers.

However, the aim of processing should be simply to return illegal migrants to their own countries and providing temporary refuge for genuine asylum seekers. I don't agree with creating an additional 'pull' factor for mass migration by offering free training, education and job skills for anyone who attempts to illegally enter Europe. And lets face it, the concept of Europeans teaching non-Europeans to be civilized isnt going to survive contact with post-colonial guilt.

There are plenty of educated Africans and others who are currently living within the borders of Europe, or externally, who could be paid to teach in Africa, especially if the carrot of citizenship in the EU is a "special"/limited incentive.

And I don't agree that this creates an additional pull factor, since there's doesn't need to be an additional pull... they're already being pulled regardless. This is more about bringing up the populations in Africa with regards to education and useful skills, before returning them to their own countries, perhaps in addition to the national aid the country receives.

As for Europeans teaching, and post colonial guilt, I believe that's mostly a NGO/activist line (since they love to make extreme statements), rather than reality. I've taught (both adults and minors) in a variety of countries which had a colonial past, as a volunteer, and I didn't receive any of this supposed negative backlash to teaching. In every instance, I received gratitude. And I know from my uncle who is a Jesuit, and who has worked in Africa for five decades as a teacher, that he's had very little negative response, except on a government (political) level. The people themselves are grateful for any help that improves their lives.

jmayo

I seriously don't know why some posters continue to try debate with some other posters on here.
It is just sapping your will.

It is a waste of time, you are never going to change their mind.

They will never admit they may be wrong, that there may be something else at play, that things are not as simple or straightforward as being portrayed by vested interest groups, media outlets, etc.
And as sure as hell you will be labelled the nearest thing to a high ranker at Nuremberg in the end.

They don't see anything to debate, they just see people they detest simply because they do not agree with their social media acceptable narrative or the narrative pedaled by some NGO or other.

And often the aim has been to drag you into something where you lose your cool and then it is you that is infracted and banned.

They have then achieved their aim of shutting you up and stopping inconvenient non sanctioned thought.

The ignore option can be a wonderful release.

da_miser

Answer me this if you can?
We are told their is ethnic wars in Africa and Asia because the British drew borders that put different tribes/religions together, but are expected that when these different tribes/religions come here to Ireland /EU that they will all live in peace and harmony?
We are told that these immigrants will strengthen our nation, but never told why they cant/dont strengthen their own?

Rodney Bathgate

da_miser wrote: »

Answer me this if you can?
We are told their is ethnic wars in Africa and Asia because the British drew borders that put different tribes/religions together, but are expected that when these different tribes/religions come here to Ireland /EU that they will all live in peace and harmony?
We are told that these immigrants will strengthen our nation, but never told why they cant/dont strengthen their own?

The reality is that many of the people smuggled to Europe are the dregs of society in their country of origin. Anyone who claims they are ‘doctors and engineers’ is delusional or just plain lying.

4068ac1elhodqr

da_miser wrote: »

Answer me this if you can?
We are told their is ethnic wars in Africa and Asia because the British drew borders that put different tribes/religions together, but are expected that when these different tribes/religions come here to Ireland /EU that they will all live in peace and harmony?
We are told that these immigrants will strengthen our nation, but never told why they cant/dont strengthen their own?

Liberia in W.Africa seems to be having some custom/cultural/societal issues of late, making news headines.

'Liberia declares rape - a national emergency'
It orders new measures to tackle spike in sex attacks (Only 2% of cases ever led to a conviciton, hence little in the way of a deterrent).

600 cases were recorded this summer in a small country of 4.5m, a doubling of May's 80-100 caseload for that month.

The footballer-turned-president said Liberia was "witnessing what is actually an epidemic of rape within the pandemic, affecting mostly children and young girls across the country."

Rodney Bathgate

Sloan Hundreds Village wrote: »

Liberia in W.Africa seems to be having some custom/cultural/societal issues of late, making news headines.

'Liberia declares rape - a national emergency'
It orders new measures to tackle spike in sex attacks (Only 2% of cases ever led to a conviciton, hence little in the way of a deterrent).

600 cases were recorded this summer in a small country of 4.5m, a doubling of May's 80-100 caseload for that month.

The footballer-turned-president said Liberia was "witnessing what is actually an epidemic of rape within the pandemic, affecting mostly children and young girls across the country."

And some people previously had the gall to try to claim that Ireland has a ‘rape culture’?

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

I seriously don't know why some posters continue to try debate with some other posters on here.
It is just sapping your will.

My will is perfectly fine, thanks.

I'm quite an argumentative kind of person (I think that's obvious), and it may be selfish, but each "debate" streamlines my arguments, so that my logic/rational is just a little bit better each time. Some day, I'll be consistently as good as Wibbs. He's my boards role-model.

It is a waste of time, you are never going to change their mind.

I'm not so sure about that. I find that many of those, like TheCitizen, don't actually engage in a debate, and so, it makes me think that they're just out to push buttons, by encouraging emotional reactions (which are easy to counter). So, while he/she isn't engaging in the topic, they're still reading a lot of the material... and I can hope the simple logic is settling into their consciousness.

I figure that many of the rather shallow posters we've had on this thread recently, don't really engage in the discussion, and are just trolling out of boredom.

They will never admit they may be wrong, that there may be something else at play, that things are not as simple or straightforward as being portrayed by vested interest groups, media outlets, etc.
And as sure as hell you will be labelled the nearest thing to a high ranker at Nuremberg in the end.

They don't see anything to debate, they just see people they detest simply because they do not agree with their social media acceptable narrative or the narrative pedaled by some NGO or other.

And often the aim has been to drag you into something where you lose your cool and then it is you that is infracted and banned.

They have then achieved their aim of shutting you up and stopping inconvenient non sanctioned thought.

I dunno... it's boards. The old politics and humanities forums were the same, and yet, we're still here posting our opinions, in the hope of some reasonable debate.

Let me put it this way. I love my job as a lecturer/teacher because I debate business topics, such as ethics with my students. They don't have the depth of knowledge that I have, nor the maturity/experience to really appreciate the world as it really is... and so, I often run into various levels of stupidity, and naivety, which they cling to, as if they're afraid to see something they don't want to see. It can be frustrating but at the same time, a lot of fun.

The ignore option can be a wonderful release.

Nah. I've got about three people on my ignore list, and I don't tend to add to it. There's no point, unless it's someone who really pisses me off, like El_D does. TheCitizen might like to think that he's gotten under my skin, but... nope. Not even slightly. He's an amateur at being an annoyance. So.. the ignore option, I reserve for the experts.

da_miser

da_miser wrote: »

Answer me this if you can?
We are told their is ethnic wars in Africa and Asia because the British drew borders that put different tribes/religions together, but are expected that when these different tribes/religions come here to Ireland /EU that they will all live in peace and harmony?

Ahh well.. I've asked something similar myself a few times on this thread. It's always deflected or ignored. You won't get an answer that doesn't excuse such behavior, and provide really shallow "reasons".

We are told that these immigrants will strengthen our nation, but never told why they cant/dont strengthen their own?

I can tell you easily enough. Hierarchy, Caste systems, religious division, Tribal superstition, widespread corruption, brutal oversight by police and the army, indoctrination, political conditioning, lack of modern education, etc. Plenty of factors to prevent them from doing it.

IMHO to deal with an African nation, you would need to take out a sizable portion of the population away from that nation, isolate them, destroy the inbuilt prejudices, educate them, provide short-medium-long term planning for them, and then reinsert them back into the country, at all levels of authority. Bottom to top. Complete insertion of educated/skilled people with all the nonsense purged out of them.... and then, a few years later, a neighboring nation jealous over their success will start raiding, and ultimately invade to take what they have achieved. Africa is a cluster****, and I don't see it changing until they decide to do it for themselves, perhaps by a coalition of nations.. or a particularly strong military expansion by one nation, unifying the various populations and strong enough to counter their neighbors efforts. (but that kind of expansion would likely be stopped by the major powers/UN, so... not much chance of that happening)

Sand

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't consider it as deportation since that would assume that they have a right to be there. Only asylum seekers, have a special status. Economic and other refugees who seek entry without permission are illegal, and so can be sent wherever.

I don't think its that simple. Otherwise the long line of failed asylum seekers and illegal migrants would be getting deported quickly and easily from Europe. Prior to each deportation there's a long process of investigation and legal process. Once they land on your shores, its very, very, very hard to remove them.

It should be possible to sidestep that by processing migrants on European territory outside Europe itself. You're not deporting them but you are holding them abroad.

It's just those who are firmly fixated on Europe as a destination who would avoid the centers.

The problem for Europe is those people however. If they're not migrating to Europe then its not a significant concern for us.

There are plenty of educated Africans and others who are currently living within the borders of Europe, or externally, who could be paid to teach in Africa, especially if the carrot of citizenship in the EU is a "special"/limited incentive.

I'd disagree with citizenship as a carrot on two points. 1) If the aim of the programme is to upskill non-European peoples and encourage them to make a life in their own countries, then offering citizenship in Europe as a reward is sends the wrong message. 2) There is no reason to offer citizenship as money will be motivation enough.

And I don't agree that this creates an additional pull factor, since there's doesn't need to be an additional pull... they're already being pulled regardless.

And we should eliminate those pull factors. The existence of those pre-existing factors doesn't justify offering more benefits to those who migrate.

As for Europeans teaching, and post colonial guilt, I believe that's mostly a NGO/activist line (since they love to make extreme statements), rather than reality. I've taught (both adults and minors) in a variety of countries which had a colonial past, as a volunteer, and I didn't receive any of this supposed negative backlash to teaching. In every instance, I received gratitude. And I know from my uncle who is a Jesuit, and who has worked in Africa for five decades as a teacher, that he's had very little negative response, except on a government (political) level. The people themselves are grateful for any help that improves their lives.

Sure, non-European peoples may have little or no hangups about it but this is a European initiative organised by European governments and funded by European tax payers. The idea of Europeans mentoring Africans is going to make them cringe.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

I don't think its that simple. Otherwise the long line of failed asylum seekers and illegal migrants would be getting deported quickly and easily from Europe. Prior to each deportation there's a long process of investigation and legal process. Once they land on your shores, its very, very, very hard to remove them.

It's not that simple because the NGO's provide legal council to asylum seekers. Legal representation that specialises in that field.

Besides, the UN is very intent on extending its influence to guarantee the supposed rights of refugees.

It should be possible to sidestep that by processing migrants on European territory outside Europe itself. You're not deporting them but you are holding them abroad.

Which is similar to what I suggested.

The problem for Europe is those people however. If they're not migrating to Europe then its not a significant concern for us.

The problem for Europe, right now, is the whole lot of them. The crowd in Greece will get in eventually, because politicians don't have the will to block out migrants indefinitely, along with the Media/NGOs/activists crying murder. And they'll be replaced with another larger group waiting to get in... and so on.

We need to cut away from the edges to expose the center.

I'd disagree with citizenship as a carrot on two points. 1) If the aim of the programme is to upskill non-European peoples and encourage them to make a life in their own countries, then offering citizenship in Europe as a reward is sends the wrong message. 2) There is no reason to offer citizenship as money will be motivation enough.

Fair enough, although, we will still want connections with Africa, with the creation of ambassadors whose loyalty is to us.. money doesn't generally buy loyalty, since it's what's expected, rather than rewarded.

And we should eliminate those pull factors. The existence of those pre-existing factors doesn't justify offering more benefits to those who migrate.

The whole existence of Europe, with a reputation for being prosperous is the pull factor. The only way to remove that pull factor is to completely block migrants and back up that blocking with a serious deterrence. That's not going to happen.

Sure, non-European peoples may have little or no hangups about it but this is a European initiative organised by European governments and funded by European tax payers. The idea of Europeans mentoring Africans is going to make them cringe.

No, I don't think it would. If the system included a reasonable percentage of African born instructors, then I don't see any such cringe happening. Again, that's just the activists and extremists working up the colonial outrage gig. If you give people the ability to learn how to make money, so that they can provide a future for their children, and sponsor it while it happens, most will jump at the chance... no idea how many would waste it afterwards, but I still feel it's better than what's currently going on.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

My will is perfectly fine, thanks.

I'm quite an argumentative kind of person (I think that's obvious), and it may be selfish, but each "debate" streamlines my arguments, so that my logic/rational is just a little bit better each time. Some day, I'll be consistently as good as Wibbs. He's my boards role-model.



I'm not so sure about that. I find that many of those, like TheCitizen, don't actually engage in a debate, and so, it makes me think that they're just out to push buttons, by encouraging emotional reactions (which are easy to counter). So, while he/she isn't engaging in the topic, they're still reading a lot of the material... and I can hope the simple logic is settling into their consciousness.

I figure that many of the rather shallow posters we've had on this thread recently, don't really engage in the discussion, and are just trolling out of boredom.



I dunno... it's boards. The old politics and humanities forums were the same, and yet, we're still here posting our opinions, in the hope of some reasonable debate.

Let me put it this way. I love my job as a lecturer/teacher because I debate business topics, such as ethics with my students. They don't have the depth of knowledge that I have, nor the maturity/experience to really appreciate the world as it really is... and so, I often run into various levels of stupidity, and naivety, which they cling to, as if they're afraid to see something they don't want to see. It can be frustrating but at the same time, a lot of fun.



Nah. I've got about three people on my ignore list, and I don't tend to add to it. There's no point, unless it's someone who really pisses me off, like El_D does. TheCitizen might like to think that he's gotten under my skin, but... nope. Not even slightly. He's an amateur at being an annoyance. So.. the ignore option, I reserve for the experts.

OK I’ll bite.

Clearly I’ve taken up residence inside your head:pac:

What an arrogant rambling pile of dung that post of yours is. Try a bit of your own advice and stick to the topic.

Truth is you’ve had your say over and over again and you’re just bumping your gums now. I’ve had my say on this issue and I did debate it and offer my own ideas of solutions, it didn’t fit in with has is increasingly becoming an echo chamber on here, and so you call me out even though I had stopped posting on the thread. Sad stuff.

You’ll respond to this no doubt with further lies and further arrogance but you’ll get some more likes from the rest of the echo chamber no doubt. Whatever blows your hair back eh.

Unbelievable. Wibbs is your hero on here, says it all

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

OK I’ll bite.

Clearly I’ve taken up residence inside your head:pac:

What an arrogant rambling pile of dung that post of yours is. Try a bit of your own advice and stick to the topic.

Truth is you’ve had your say over and over again and you’re just bumping your gums now. I’ve had my say on this issue and I did debate it and offer my own ideas of solutions, it didn’t fit in with has is increasingly becoming an echo chamber on here, and so you call me out even though I had stopped posting on the thread. Sad stuff.

You’ll respond to this no doubt with further lies and further arrogance but you’ll get some more likes from the rest of the echo chamber no doubt. Whatever blows your hair back eh.

Unbelievable. Wibbs is your hero on here, says it all

Translation:

I’ve had my ar*e handed to me repeatedly in debate by Klaz, Wibbs et al.

I don’t have any legitimate proposals or solutions to the migration challenge. I’ll spout some vague nonsense about visas for asylum seekers, a humanitarian approach for unaccompanied minors, and dismiss illegal migration because the Irish went to the US in the 1980s, something, something...

Finally, when all my arguments have been dismissed and my belligerence called out, I’ll throw a diva-like, hissy fit and run away from the forum, accusing all those who disagree with me of being ‘loons’ and participating in an echo chamber.

What a delight to see you return..

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

Translation:

I’ve had my ar*e handed to me repeatedly in debate by Klaz, Wibbs et al.

I don’t have any legitimate proposals or solutions to the migration challenge. I’ll spout some vague nonsense about visas for asylum seekers, a humanitarian approach for unaccompanied minors, and dismiss illegal migration because the Irish went to the US in the 1980s, something, something...

Finally, when all my arguments have been dismissed and my belligerence called out, I’ll throw a diva-like, hissy fit and run away from the forum, accusing all those who disagree with me of being ‘loons’ and participating in an echo chamber.

What a delight to see you return..

So if a debate is at an end that means I’m running away from the forum. Nah, Ive better things to be doing than repetitively going around in rings with the likes of the two you mentioned.

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

So if a debate is at an end that means I’m running away from the forum. Nah, Ive better things to be doing than repetitively going around in rings with the likes of the two you mentioned.

Fair enough.

One point I’ll make is that the debate around migration isn’t at an end. It’s only just ramping up. It will be one of the most crucial conversations of the 21st century.

You’re going to encounter far more combative opponents than posters here. You’ll need to argue far more effectively than any of capabilities you’ve demonstrated here.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

OK I’ll bite.

Clearly I’ve taken up residence inside your head:pac:

What an arrogant rambling pile of dung that post of yours is. Try a bit of your own advice and stick to the topic.

I've contributed infinitely more to the topic than you have, so... actually, come to think of it, what exactly have you contributed?

Truth is you’ve had your say over and over again and you’re just bumping your gums now. I’ve had my say on this issue and I did debate it and offer my own ideas of solutions, it didn’t fit in with has is increasingly becoming an echo chamber on here, and so you call me out even though I had stopped posting on the thread. Sad stuff.

As others have pointed out (not just me), you haven't engaged much in the way of debate, and your "solutions" were really shallow statements, usually to dismiss/deflect other peoples contributions.

Just look at the manner of your posting style. Almost every post has a dig in it.

You’ll respond to this no doubt with further lies and further arrogance but you’ll get some more likes from the rest of the echo chamber no doubt. Whatever blows your hair back eh.

Unbelievable. Wibbs is your hero on here, says it all

What lies? There is a quote function. And I said role-model, not hero. There is a difference, which I suspect you know, but you do have this perverse need to twist things.

Still, thank you for, once again, completely validating my comments about your presence on this thread.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

So if a debate is at an end that means I’m running away from the forum. Nah, Ive better things to be doing than repetitively going around in rings with the likes of the two you mentioned.

Um... when/where have you managed to run rings around either Wibbs or myself? :pac::pac::pac:

You haven't come even close to countering anything either of us posted. You seem completely oblivious about your own posting history on the thread. Hilarious.

TheCitizen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Um... when/where have you managed to run rings around either Wibbs or myself? :pac::pac::pac:

You haven't come even close to countering anything either of us posted. You seem completely oblivious about your own posting history on the thread. Hilarious.

What’s all this about Wibbs? Does he live inside your head as well LOL

ExMachina1000

TheCitizen wrote: »

What’s all this about Wibbs? Does he live inside your head as well LOL

Good to have you back. I knew you wouldn't run away

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

Um... when/where have you managed to run rings around either Wibbs or myself? :pac::pac::pac:

You haven't come even close to countering anything either of us posted. You seem completely oblivious about your own posting history on the thread. Hilarious.

Screaming insults is beating people at debate according to the progressive mindset.

TheCitizen

TomTomTim wrote: »

Screaming insults is beating people at debate according to the progressive mindset.

See this is what Im talking about; “progressive” is now a bad word or a term of abuse around here. Absolutely ridiculous, place overrun with all sorts of regressive narrow minded backwoodsmen.