What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t know re : numbers, will we ever say no more ? CAN we as an EU member state ? Say ‘enough for now’ ?

Sure, we can. Poland did. It's just takes balls, which I seriously doubt our political elite have.

Mr. Karate

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's not really fair for Italy and Greece and the Med countries to have to take them all either. Will be interesting to see if this trickles down to us.

You know... Maybe these Countries should have thought of that BEFORE they started yelling "Come on In." .

They wanted to play the nice guy and get social media likes so let them suffer the consequences of their stupidity. Why should we have to suffer because they were stupid?

ExMachina1000

NGOs are the real problem here. Its impossible to maintain a strong and organized border while they are undermining it at every opportunity by ferrying people across the Mediterranean. This is encouraging more people to come and risk the journey.

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, we can. Poland did. It's just takes balls, which I seriously doubt our political elite have.

Balls is something our politicians don’t have a lot of. Covid has brought that home very succinctly they’ll hesitate and be worried about getting it in the neck from the EU AND many of the soft hearted yet soft brained here.

imme

Strumms wrote: »

They can claim they were to be drowned in acid, but that STILL means when we lend a hand, they play by the rules. ALL the rules.

Will you end up with 50,000 poor people coming to Ireland every year.

What jobs will they all get, or will they straight on to PUP.

Where will they live.

Will they all be getting free housing, health care and education from the start.
Without ever having paid a cent towards their cost.

As it is we have people in direct provision saying that they're being traumatised by their food and treatment.

Is there anything that they need to know or understand about Ireland, Europe, the Western world.

Is there any kind of integration anticipated in the plan, or will each community of Africans, Asians, former soviet bloc peoples, Middle Easterners, South Americans be separated from each other and the 'old irish', living separate lives.

Mules

My concern is the pressure on public services. The health system and the housing situation can't cope with our current population but then Varadkar says he want the population to grow by 1million in his 2040 plan. The numbers he wants will have to come by immigration because Irish people aren't having enough children to make to make up the 1 million. Why increase the population anyway. I don't want to live in an overcrowded country with public services falling apart.

I don't get why no one in the media and the main opposition parties are at least calling for a debate on it. Isn't it weird that there is consensus across the board on it?

Another thing is, that i work in an organisation that provides a grant to people from the most socio economically deprived areas in the country to go to further education. I've seen a disproportionate number of foreign born and asylum seekers living in those areas. It's madness to add more people to areas with high levels of unemployment and lack of services. A lot of Irish people who live there are in a poverty trap and i think it will be a lot worse for people from abroad who have poor English and low levels of education. Tbh I'd be nervous that we will end up with areas like the banleaus (sp) in Paris. Ireland has never been great at planning for the long term and I don't see the current policy regarding immigration turning out well.

Mules

Mules wrote: »

My concern is the pressure on public services. The health system and the housing situation can't cope with our current population but then Varadkar says he want the population to grow by 1million in his 2040 plan. The numbers he wants will have to come by immigration because Irish people aren't having enough children to make to make up the 1 million. Why increase the population anyway. I don't want to live in an overcrowded country with public services falling apart.

Increasing the population doesn't make sense anyway, since we have a services and technology based economy, which requires less workers, than an agrarian or industrial nation. Countries like Germany need a higher population because they've retained elements of all economic industries, but Ireland hasn't. In any case, with automation on the horizon, many previous jobs will become redundant, and so less need for a larger population.

Also considering the rising costs of living in Ireland, bringing in people who don't have the skills/education to independently earn well, simply increases the burden on the existing taxpayers... even with an increasing older population, the burden will remain on, for the most part, non-migrants, due to the gap in bringing them up to speed in terms of education and language acquisition. Becoming taxpayers themselves will simply be paying back the long period of cost involved in supporting and educating them, so it's dubious whether there's a "profit" for the nation in having these migrants. Especially, since many will leave Ireland once they receive EU citizenship, and move to other countries such as Germany...

Mules

Deleted User wrote: »

Increasing the population doesn't make sense anyway, since we have a services and technology based economy, which requires less workers, than an agrarian or industrial nation. Countries like Germany need a higher population because they've retained elements of all economic industries, but Ireland hasn't. In any case, with automation on the horizon, many previous jobs will become redundant, and so less need for a larger population.

Also considering the rising costs of living in Ireland, bringing in people who don't have the skills/education to independently earn well, simply increases the burden on the existing taxpayers... even with an increasing older population, the burden will remain on, for the most part, non-migrants, due to the gap in bringing them up to speed in terms of education and language acquisition. Becoming taxpayers themselves will simply be paying back the long period of cost involved in supporting and educating them, so it's dubious whether there's a "profit" for the nation in having these migrants. Especially, since many will leave Ireland once they receive EU citizenship, and move to other countries such as Germany...

That's it exactly, so why are so many in the media and in politics not even questioning it. If it's obvious to us, why aren't they seeing it Are they all optimistic or just not thinking things through?

Mules

Mules wrote: »

That's it exactly, so why are so many in the media and in politics not even questioning it. If it's obvious to us, why aren't they seeing it Are they all optimistic or just not thinking things through?

They don't care. Look at our politicians and those in the media. They earn good money (and job security), which place them higher than the average Irish person. They're the "elite", and as such, they can easily endure any tax hikes, or expenses that the remainder of Irish people might struggle with.

They can afford to virtue signal... because it won't affect them in their really nice neighborhoods, and won't cost them much.

Strumms

As long as covid is hanging over us, the door needs to be closed. We NEED to target every resource we have in terms of helping the citizens of this country, here.

When we were in a position to help, we did.

Now we are not we need to say, “ok for now, we cannot accept anyone else, the cost of this heath crisis means it’s not possible.”

We have to do this as our primary loyalties are to the citizens here.

We cannot become traitors to our our people, their needs, them having paid for the running of the HSE to tell them ‘no sorry, we cannot pay for your treatment’... while accepting hundreds and thousands of people here, to give them medical cards, accommodation, cash..... THATS what’s happening. They took both my parents medical cards, my father has a heart issue, arthritis and a stomach issue, he is in his 80’s...

There just isn’t a bottomless pit of money with which to extend a hand outside of our borders and invite people in.

The money we do have, the resources in terms of our health facilities, our health staff... doctors, nurses, carers, virologists, security, cleaners will be as it stands, be at breaking point. Because of covid but because people are STILL getting cancer diagnosis's, having heart attacks, breaking legs, diabetes...

We need to focus OUR resources at and for the people who amassed those resources.

We are in a situation where people who paid in are being told NO, you can’t get a dig out , yet somebody landing here, gets EVERY dig out.

Thelonious Monk

If you think it's bad now, wait a bit. Africa is looking at the worst recession since the 1970s because of all this covid jazz. Climate change is going to force millions to have to move and how many of them are going to try and get to Europe? We are an island on the edge of Europe though so I would imagine our intake wont grow too much as we're not gonna get boat people and people walking here like in Britain and Germany.
The way we run the world means the planet is f*cked anyway, but it looks like we ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to mass migration of people, and who would blame them, I've no doubt I'd probably be one of those people trying to get to Europe if I was from some war torn or poor as f*ck country.

TomTomTim

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If you think it's bad now, wait a bit. Africa is looking at the worst recession since the 1970s because of all this covid jazz. Climate change is going to force millions to have to move and how many of them are going to try and get to Europe?
The way we run the world means the planet is f*cked anyway, but it looks like we ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to mass migration of people.

I struggle to see how this will be a reality? It seems that the media are already prepping the bull regardless, as I've seen mentions of climate refugees many times already. Why would you flee to another continent over climate change anyway? Is it not a global issue? Regardless of the narratives used, I can't see anyone leaving their countries over climate change, but that won't stop the media class and activists alike, from using it as another excuse for mass-immigration.

Thelonious Monk

TomTomTim wrote: »

I struggle to see how this will be a reality? It seems that the media are already prepping the bull regardless, as I've seen mentions of climate refugees many times already. Why would you flee to another continent over climate change anyway? Is it not a global issue? Regardless of the narratives used, I can't see anyone leaving their countries over climate change, but that won't stop the media class and activists alike, from using it as another excuse for mass-immigration.

If your country became uninhabitable you would stay there anyway?
It's already happening, parts of Central America are already experiencing drought and famine and walking up to the USA.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jul/29/guatemala-climate-crisis-migration-drought-famine

LeeroyJ.

Gervais08 wrote: »

How can there be genuine “multiculturalism” when the nutjobs on the left scream “cultural appropriation” every time someone tries on an outfit from a different nation ??

Wouldn’t it be great if we could all experience the best bits of each other’s cultures ??? I’ve a colleague from Ghana who drinks Guinness like it’s going out of style and laughs at my ignorance of GAA as he knows practically everything about it!!!

Isn’t that a good thing ?? Yet if I was to immerse myself in Ghanaian dress or hair etc I’d be on a cancel list.

I don’t get it!!

Immersing yourself into African culture for a dinner, celebration, travelling there or because you enjoy the look and style is fine


Wearing it for Halloween or for some likes on an Instagram post if where it becomes rather unacceptable.

Hector Savage

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

Immersing yourself into African culture for a dinner, celebration, travelling there or because you enjoy the look and style is fine


Wearing it for Halloween or for some likes on an Instagram post if where it becomes rather unacceptable.

Becomes rather unacceptable !! says who ?

Would you go away ourra da !!!

LeeroyJ.

Hector Savage wrote: »

Becomes rather unacceptable !! says who ?

Would you go away ourra da !!!

Society, the same society that deems calling other cultures derogatory terms, dictates what is acceptable to do in public and what is rather unacceptable in public. You are welcome to do it but shouldn't be surprised if there is a societal backlash. It's part of a societal contract, nobody makes the rules but it evolves over time and adjust to what society deems acceptable.

Dyr

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If your country became uninhabitable you would stay there anyway?
It's already happening, parts of Central America are already experiencing drought and famine and walking up to the USA.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jul/29/guatemala-climate-crisis-migration-drought-famine

Ah the Guardian, if it isnt Trump then its climate change, I assume it was climate change that caused the dusbowl of the 30s and the Ethiopian famine of the 80s rather than just human mismangement.

Thelonious Monk

Bambi wrote: »

Ah the Guardian, if it isnt Trump then its climate change, I assume it was climate change that caused the dusbowl of the 30s and the Ethiopian famine of the 80s rather than just human mismangement.

ok I know people on boards don't believe in climate change, but we are mismanaging the Earth pretty much as bad as we possibly could right now, and exploding populations in poor countries along with dwindling resources will still rise to massive numbers migrating.

LeeroyJ.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

ok I know people on boards don't believe in climate change, but we are mismanaging the Earth pretty much as bad as we possibly could right now, and exploding populations in poor countries along with dwindling resources will still rise to massive numbers migrating.

I think this thread is a lost cause mate, seems to be the "Irish Patriots" Anti-vax, anti mask, anti immigration, anti everything Elite in here. Time to unfollow.

Dyr

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

ok I know people on boards don't believe in climate change, but we are mismanaging the Earth pretty much as bad as we possibly could right now, and exploding populations in poor countries along with dwindling resources will still rise to massive numbers migrating.

I'm going to take a guess its Guatamalas huge rise in population thats fuelling emigration far more than any climate change but dont tell the Guardian that.

Hector Savage

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

Society, the same society that deems calling other cultures derogatory terms, dictates what is acceptable to do in public and what is rather unacceptable in public. You are welcome to do it but shouldn't be surprised if there is a societal backlash. It's part of a societal contract, nobody makes the rules but it evolves over time and adjust to what society deems acceptable.

That's some leap, some people also want to ban "To kill a mockingbird" and "of mice and men" - doesn't mean it's a sensible move.

weldoninhio

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t know re : numbers, will we ever say no more ? CAN we as an EU member state ? Say ‘enough for now’ ?

We gained a veto from taking any of them as past of one of the treaty’s we voted wrongly the first time for. We’ll never use it. Not when Dáil Éireann is a stepping stone to the EU parliament.

TomTomTim

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

I think this thread is a lost cause mate, seems to be the "Irish Patriots" Anti-vax, anti mask, anti immigration, anti everything Elite in here. Time to unfollow.

You people love to use this cheap tactic. You love to throw all the groups that you don't like into one even though there is no evidence. There's zero in this thread about masks, anti-vax, or even patriotism, yet that never stops you from slinging ****. It's outright pathetic, and completely transparent, yet it will continue, because you have nothing else.

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

I struggle to see how this will be a reality? It seems that the media are already prepping the bull regardless, as I've seen mentions of climate refugees many times already. Why would you flee to another continent over climate change anyway? Is it not a global issue? Regardless of the narratives used, I can't see anyone leaving their countries over climate change, but that won't stop the media class and activists alike, from using it as another excuse for mass-immigration.

The problem is more than climate change but also the local habits of farmers, or rather herders. Desertification spreads. Deforestation spreads. It doesn't stay in one area obeying national borders. The behaviors of one group of people in a region will likely affect the overall region.

So, it's the case that as this grows worse, people will move to their neighboring country, find that it's just as bad, and move on... ever on. Either staying to put greater strain on resources (while still following their original bad habits), or moving on to another country.

The problem is reputation. Europe, the US, Western nations have a reputation for prosperity and abundance... so even if Europe does decline, that reputation will continue in the minds of people far away, and will remain a place of hope as everywhere else goes to ****.

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

Society, the same society that deems calling other cultures derogatory terms, dictates what is acceptable to do in public and what is rather unacceptable in public. You are welcome to do it but shouldn't be surprised if there is a societal backlash. It's part of a societal contract, nobody makes the rules but it evolves over time and adjust to what society deems acceptable.

I've noticed a lot of this on boards recently, but the reality doesn't reflect what you say. It's only really on social media where this carryon is happening or US campuses. Society is not social media... thankfully.

If you want to dress up in traditional Chinese clothes for Halloween, nobody will care except for some idiots on social media.. and they're easily ignored.

LeeroyJ.

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

I think this thread is a lost cause mate, seems to be the "Irish Patriots" Anti-vax, anti mask, anti immigration, anti everything Elite in here. Time to unfollow.

Well.. I, for one, am incredibly impressed by your insight, considering this is... your second post to the thread within the last 40 pages? Were you even subscribed to the thread at all?

So... Who talked about Irish Patriots on this thread? Ahh yes, the pro-immigration crowd. Anti-Vax? Where is that mentioned?

Anti-immigration... actually no. If you had bothered to read the posts you would find it's not as simplistic as that..

Anti-elite? gibberish.

I get the feeling you just came in to crap on the thread. A lost cause...? haha. Yeah.. Incredibly insightful contributions coming from you. :rolleyes:

Gervais08

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

Society, the same society that deems calling other cultures derogatory terms, dictates what is acceptable to do in public and what is rather unacceptable in public. You are welcome to do it but shouldn't be surprised if there is a societal backlash. It's part of a societal contract, nobody makes the rules but it evolves over time and adjust to what society deems acceptable.

White Chicks was on last night. Two black lads dressed as white girls for the craic - acceptable to you or no ?

Thelonious Monk

Gervais08 wrote: »

White Chicks was on last night. Two black lads dressed as white girls for the craic - acceptable to you or no ?

That's not offensive to white people though, I'm sure you know that.

Wibbs

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

I think this thread is a lost cause mate, seems to be the "Irish Patriots" Anti-vax, anti mask, anti immigration, anti everything Elite in here. Time to unfollow.

Nope. I'm not particularly patriotic, I'm pro mask, pro vaccination, pro Gay/Women's rights, pro choice, anti exploitation of poorer nations and their poorest etc. How does that fit your narrative?

Well it doesn't because it has been quite clear throughout this thread that the pro multiculturalists have, well, nothing, or very little by way of argument in favour beyond diversity for its own sake, old style exoticism and appeals to charity, with a side order in some of White guilt. That's all the barrels fired.

When questioned on these and other points like the obvious negatives that are quite clearly seen in every European nation that has tried to run this social experiment with vanishingly few exceptions what follows next as night follows day is exactly the response you've typed. IE wave away any dissent, or even thinking for yourself about the subject you see as an accepted truth, with calls along the lines of "echo chamber/racists/etc" and then flounce off.


TL;DR? For something seen by the pro diversity posters as such an obviously defensible position to hold, it remains to be continuously amazing to me how little actual worthwhile debate exists in that side of the argument. I genuinely thought there would be more. That I might be convinced to shift from my position. Instead the debate here has bolstered it.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

I genuinely thought there would be more. That I might be convinced to shift from my position. Instead the debate here has bolstered it.

Well.. I could switch sides and attempt to argue for their sake. Show them how it's done, and all that jazz.

Gervais08

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That's not offensive to white people though, I'm sure you know that.

Why not?? If “blackface” to make fun of those with dark skin is wrong then why isn’t that ?