What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

TheCitizen

Wibbs wrote: »

No, I'm afraid it doesn't. God forbid you'd actually address points and rebut them. And pigs might fly.

I know people like you. You’ve no interest in solutions. You don’t listen to other opinions, you’re totally self obsessed and enamoured with the sound of your own voice. Ultimately You have nothing to contribute. Wibble Wibble

TheCitizen

Strumms wrote: »

You’ve referred to people in this thread directly as clowns, or don’t you remember what you post ? So it appears when you accuse others of rambling and insults , you need to take a closer look at your own ‘contributions’.

Anyone that uses the term “progressive” as a term of abuse is a clown. I make no apologies for stating a fact.

Oh I know this has happened a lot on this thread, I get accused of insults etc., but others that engage in insults are ignored maybe because you agree with their overall views perhaps.

TheCitizen

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They probably polled upper middle class folks in the wealthy parts of Dublin, in other words the places where none of these immigrants would be living in.

Sure a poll you disagree with will be erroneous. If the findings were to your liking you’d ignore the veracity or otherwise of the polling. Typical

sterz

Nothing to add here apart from cringing at the use of Wibble Wibble. Quick search shows that you're desperate for this to catch on.

TheCitizen

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Luckily nobody really listens to them. Background noise.

Like the prevailing guff on this thread you mean. LOL

TheCitizen

sterz wrote: »

Nothing to add here apart from cringing at the use of Wibble Wibble. Quick search shows that you're desperate for this to catch on.

Are you wibbles multi. Wibble Wibble

Hamachi

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They probably polled upper middle class folks in the wealthy parts of Dublin, in other words the places where none of these immigrants would be living in.

In fairness, I don’t believe South Dublin people are particularly in favor of removing the 27th amendment.

If memory serves me correctly, Dun Laoghaire / Rathdown, typically the most socially liberal constituency in the country, voted > 70% in favor of instituting the amendment.

Back in 2004, people were becoming increasingly frustrated with the blatant flouting of our laws around asylum seeking. Given that some of the negative ramifications of the anchor baby phenomenon are now becoming clear, I can’t see the result being any different in 2020. If anything, the % in favor of retaining the 27th has likely increased by several percentage points.

TheCitizen

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I did a a Google search "birthright citizenship Ireland " and found this.

https://www.theirishworld.com/parties-out-of-step-with-ireland-on-birthright-citizenship/

In the article it states that over 70% of people are now in favour of birth right citizenship and that just like you said it can be changed via government vote. No referendum required.

If a left wing alliance Sf/labour etc ever did come to power it could actually be overturned. You are correct sir

And there we have it. The guff on this thread is also party political in the narrow sense. Scaremongering about the possibility of a left leaning government in Ireland. We’ve never had a left leaning government in this country yet look at the whining about perceived current government policy re this issue on here. This place stinks if the Far Right.

enricoh

TheCitizen wrote: »

Are you wibbles multi. Wibble Wibble

I thought you were leaving us as it was a right wing echo chamber.
I thought school reopening might have something to do with it too!
Anyway, great to have you back with such insightful posts like the above!
Keep em coming.

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

Are you wibbles multi. Wibble Wibble

Haven’t checked Boards for a while. I thought you stormed away after throwing a hissy fit and committed to never coming back? Clearly a man of your word..

Nice to see some things haven’t changed. I missed your wonderfully articulate lexicon: gobdaws, loons, echo chamber, fool, wibble, bumping your gums...

Coillte_Bhoy

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They probably polled upper middle class folks in the wealthy parts of Dublin, in other words the places where none of these immigrants would be living in.

You really dont have a clue about the methodology used

Strumms

TheCitizen wrote: »

That doesn’t address the migrant/refugee crisis. I don’t know anyone who is advocating throwing open our borders to non EU citizens and inviting them all in and nor is that or has that happened. A bogeyman constructed on here that drives the general narrative of this thread.

It doesn’t need to address it.... quite simply the resources of this government, this state, our people need to be spent at this time fighting Covid and ensuring services and supports are there for the taxpayers here. If other countries are endangering the wellbeing of their people due to poor governance, wars, lack of services... that’s on them... we can, do and will in future perhaps help where appropriate.

A number of people similar in number to those residing in the entirety of Roscommon town have landed here to receive help over just the last 5 years.

Weekly cash, accommodation, healthcare, child care all free gratis. Other services too. That’s great, good, fine... but with the situation we are faced with now... need to push pause on doing this.

excludedbin

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

You really dont have a clue about the methodology used

When has a lack of familiarity with the facts stopped these types acting like they're experts? Anything that contradicts their circlejerk is dismissed and anything, no matter how tenuous or tangential, that backs it up, is gospel. Baseless assumptions are facts and actual facts are 'leftist propaganda', or whatever they call it at the moment.

Your efforts would be better spent preventing any vulnerable people being taken in by them in the first place, honestly. For people this far gone, there's little to no hope.

Justin Credible Darts

the government that the IRISH people voted in have a duty to care about the IRISH people they are there to represent.

Also anyone, regardless of sex, color or creed coming here need to be vetted, and anyone with a criminal record should be refused entry, and anyone that breaks the law should be deported.

We have enough of our own criminals without importing other countries ones

Galwayguy35

TheCitizen wrote: »

Sure a poll you disagree with will be erroneous. If the findings were to your liking you’d ignore the veracity or otherwise of the polling. Typical

Not really.

I don't believe for one second the majority of people are in favour of automatic citizenship apart from a few loons on the hard left and the likes of O Riordain.

Are you in favour of it yourself?

What way did you vote on it back in 04?

Galwayguy35

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

You really dont have a clue about the methodology used

excludedbin wrote: »

When has a lack of familiarity with the facts stopped these types acting like they're experts? Anything that contradicts their circlejerk is dismissed and anything, no matter how tenuous or tangential, that backs it up, is gospel. Baseless assumptions are facts and actual facts are 'leftist propaganda', or whatever they call it at the moment.

Your efforts would be better spent preventing any vulnerable people being taken in by them in the first place, honestly. For people this far gone, there's little to no hope.

Enlighten me so seeing as the two of you seem to be so knowledgeable.

excludedbin

excludedbin wrote: »

When has a lack of familiarity with the facts stopped these types acting like they're experts?

Which "types" would that be? People post their opinions here. If you disagree, counter those opinions with evidence... otherwise you're simply doing what you accuse others of.

Anything that contradicts their circlejerk is dismissed and anything, no matter how tenuous or tangential, that backs it up, is gospel. Baseless assumptions are facts and actual facts are 'leftist propaganda', or whatever they call it at the moment.

Well... why should we accept your statements when all they consist of are vague judgments? I mean, what contributions to the thread have you provided? What opinions backed up by evidence have you given us to mull over?

And care to prove these statements about the thread? After all, in spite of your claims, you're expecting your opinions to be accepted at face value.

Your efforts would be better spent preventing any vulnerable people being taken in by them in the first place, honestly. For people this far gone, there's little to no hope.

What vulnerable people would be involved? Such a strange comment. In any case, "people this far gone". Care to clarify such a vague and somewhat insulting remark?

You see... in the last, I dunno, 30 pages, I've seen a variety of posters like yourself come into the thread, casting judgments about the posters here, and how they apparently behave (but without any evidence to back up the generalisations), and the sad part is, none of them tried to engage in any reasoned debate... They simply expected their own opinions to be accepted at face value, and threw a tantrum when they were opposed.

So.. perhaps contribute to the thread by countering the statements of the various posters, providing evidence to back up your statements, and defending your opinion... Engage in an actual argument on the thread before you make ignorant judgments.

Oh, and just because someone posts up an opinion, it doesn't mean there's universal acceptance. My opinions while they might connect with Galwayguy35 at times, are often at cross purposes too. Sometimes we agree, and quite often we don't. This claim of a circlejerk is pure laziness.... and really makes me think you've read only a few pages, and not really paid much attention to the overall thread.

Coillte_Bhoy

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

You really dont have a clue about the methodology used

Do you?

Wibbs

TheCitizen wrote: »

I know people like you. You’ve no interest in solutions. You don’t listen to other opinions, you’re totally self obsessed and enamoured with the sound of your own voice. Ultimately You have nothing to contribute. Wibble Wibble

And your contributions are? Well, beyond circlejerk, echo chamber etc.

Me. Earlier. wrote:

You're only missing the usual passive aggressive "LOL" dropped in.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Like the prevailing guff on this thread you mean. LOL

Annnnnnd there's the "LOL". Congrats you've collected all the points.

It appears quite evident that you have no argument whatsoever in this thread as far as debating any of the points. In every single case you play the man not the ball, because it's becoming quite clear you don't have the knowledge or skillset to play the ball.

So again I ask: If your position on migration and multiculturalism is so sure and self evident, then can you list why? Can you show the positives? After all they must be numerous, or why would anyone hold such a position? Or will you retreat yet again into "wibble wibble"?

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

You really dont have a clue about the methodology used

Neither have you. Never mind that why should legislation that no other EU nation has and that was soundly rejected by a clear majority of the Irish electorate should be revisited and returned without a democratic vote? The marriage equality and right to choose votes were significantly closer in results, but who would want to run them again?

xvril

I have always found irish people to be extremely racist towards travellers.

suicide_circus

xvril wrote: »

I have always found irish people to be extremely racist towards travellers.

What brought about that state of affairs? The inherent ignorance and cruelty of the Irish perhaps?

excludedbin

Deleted User wrote: »

Which "types" would that be?

People who fly into hysterics whenever the subject of immigrants existing in the same country as them comes up.

People post their opinions here. If you disagree, counter those opinions with evidence... otherwise you're simply doing what you accuse others of.

Well yes, it's good enough for them, I'm just meeting them on their terms.

Well... why should we accept your statements when all they consist of are vague judgments? I mean, what contributions to the thread have you provided? What opinions backed up by evidence have you given us to mull over?

The difference is that I don't make up ridiculous claims and then refuse to provide evidence for them. But I never said that you should take my statements. I didn't address you.

And care to prove these statements about the thread? After all, in spite of your claims, you're expecting your opinions to be accepted at face value.

Oh I wasn't speaking specifically about this thread, I meant generally on the entire forum with this thread being a particular exemplar of it. Also, once again, I'm expecting nothing more than the same latitude racist nonsense on this thread receives.

What vulnerable people would be involved?

People easily taken in by racist nonsense.

Such a strange comment. In any case, "people this far gone". Care to clarify such a vague and somewhat insulting remark?

Those far gone in unquestioningly believing racist nonsense.

You see... in the last, I dunno, 30 pages, I've seen a variety of posters like yourself come into the thread, casting judgments about the posters here, and how they apparently behave (but without any evidence to back up the generalisations), and the sad part is, none of them tried to engage in any reasoned debate... They simply expected their own opinions to be accepted at face value, and threw a tantrum when they were opposed.

Yes, yes, I know, anyone who dares disagree with the racists is throwing a tantrum and only their claims need evidence to back them up. Please excuse me while I don't care a dram.

So.. perhaps contribute to the thread by countering the statements of the various posters, providing evidence to back up your statements, and defending your opinion... Engage in an actual argument on the thread before you make ignorant judgments.

Contribute to the thread? With evidence? Why would I do something as ridiculous as that? A hundred and eighty eight pages of people making up whatever crap they please about immigrants and being glaringly devoid of evidence demonstrates that you're holding me to a, frankly, unfair standard here.

Oh, and just because someone posts up an opinion, it doesn't mean there's universal acceptance. My opinions while they might connect with Galwayguy35 at times, are often at cross purposes too. Sometimes we agree, and quite often we don't. This claim of a circlejerk is pure laziness.... and really makes me think you've read only a few pages, and not really paid much attention to the overall thread.

Well the thanks under the posts that continue to float the "immigrants are all badwrong rarg" idea would beg to differ about the general acceptance of racist nonsense.

excludedbin

suicide_circus wrote: »

What brought about that state of affairs?

Yeah and American racists say the same thing about black people. I'm sure if I looked through the thread more I'd find some examples of the same from people here. If not, I'm sure there'll be some in response to me.

Justin Credible Darts

xvril wrote: »

I have always found irish people to be extremely racist towards travellers.

I think its more of a case people dont like criminals, since the traveling community has a far higher percentage of criminal element, than settled people.


There is a saying "stereotypes begin for a reason".
I know some fine decent travelers, but look at the stats, between the traveling community and that of the settled.


I dont think the Irish people as a race are racist, we had chinese, indian, and africans coming here for decades without trouble


In fact the race most victimised most these days in Ireland are the whites who are victims of black gangs.

Wibbs

excludedbin wrote: »

Oh I wasn't speaking specifically about this thread, I meant generally on the entire forum with this thread being a particular exemplar of it. Also, once again, I'm expecting nothing more than the same latitude racist nonsense on this thread receives.


People easily taken in by racist nonsense.


Those far gone in unquestioningly believing racist nonsense.


Yes, yes, I know, anyone who dares disagree with the racists is throwing a tantrum and only their claims need evidence to back them up. Please excuse me while I don't care a dram.


Contribute to the thread? With evidence? Why would I do something as ridiculous as that? A hundred and eighty eight pages of people making up whatever crap they please about immigrants and being glaringly devoid of evidence demonstrates that you're holding me to a, frankly, unfair standard here.


Well the thanks under the posts that continue to float the "immigrants are all badwrong rarg" idea would beg to differ about the general acceptance of racist nonsense.

So yet another whose only round in the chamber is to shout racism and echo chamber etc and avoid debating the evidence on the positives, negatives or neutrals within multicultural societies in Europe.

When previous debates have come up such as equal marriage rights, the right to choose etc you had the usual short of thinking and debate on both sides, but for the most part you had some debate. Now one might have agreed or disagreed on points raised, but points were actually raised. I realise this is a mad concept. To put forward their thought out position and the principles it's based on. Hell, forget evidence, just that lot of a subjective nature would be a welcome change.

Yet on the politic of multiculturalism from those who say they support it we have nada, or damned close to it and the vast majority of responses are the rhetoric of dismissal and attempted insult in the vain hope of wider support, or more, silence from those you see in opposition cowed by accusations of racism. Sadly as the boy who cried wolf once too often, even that has lost its sting save for among actual racists. It really does appear on the evidence in this thread that this politic is just accepted unquestioningly as a given, a truth, with little consideration beyond that near leap of faith.

I genuinely thought I'd hear far more debate and positives from "the other side" around this subject, but have been disappointed on that front.

This time I'll pose the question I've asked a few times to yourself: If your position on migration and multiculturalism is so sure and self evident, then can you list why? Can you show the positives? After all they must be numerous, or why would anyone hold such a position? Or will we again see the sadly inevitable retreat yet again into lazy rhetoric? And no diversity is its own reward is not a cogent answer.

xvril

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I think its more of a case people dont like criminals, since the traveling community has a far higher percentage of criminal element, than settled people.


There is a saying "stereotypes begin for a reason".
I know some fine decent travelers, but look at the stats, between the traveling community and that of the settled.


I dont think the Irish people as a race are racist, we had chinese, indian, and africans coming here for decades without trouble


In fact the race most victimised most these days in Ireland are the whites who are victims of black gangs.

I think that is an outrageous statement. Could it not be said that black people are more likely to be criminals?

Being racist because people perceive them to be criminals is no excuse.

Hamachi

excludedbin wrote: »

Yeah and American racists say the same thing about black people. I'm sure if I looked through the thread more I'd find some examples of the same from people here. If not, I'm sure there'll be some in response to me.

Welcome to thread. Bit of background. I'm a regular Irish guy, late 30s, with a young family. I work long hours and pay a lot of tax. I'm happy to do this, primarily to support my family, but also because I see myself as a stakeholder, contributing to the betterment of Irish society. I'm in no way unique; my situation is replicated in tens of thousands of households across the country.

I'd like to ask you a direct question if I may. Can you provide a short, numbered list (say 1-3 or 1-5) of the tangible benefits I and my family accrue from multiculturalism?

I'd really appreciate a few line items, listing the rewards both individuals and Irish society can expect to reap.

Wibbs

xvril wrote: »

I think that is an outrageous statement. Could it not be said that black people are more likely to be criminals?

Being racist because people perceive them to be criminals is no excuse.

OK, let's look at this from another angle then. Are Travellers more likely to have lower longevity than the settled population? Are Travellers more likely to finish their education earlier than the settled population? Are Travellers more likely to marry at much younger ages than the settled population? Are Travellers more likely to have more children than the settled population? Are Travellers more likely to be in receipt of social welfare payments than the settled population? I think we'd all agree that these are evidence based facts as far as the trends in Traveller community are concerned.

Yet, when we get to the subject of criminality where on evidence based fact the Traveller community are overrepresented in the crime statistics and prison population, suddenly that's the "outrageous statement"?

Does this mean all Travellers are criminals? Of course not. However it does mean that Travellers are more likely to be and by quite a margin statistically. Then of course we come to solutions for this. Just shouting racism, though prejudice certainly plays a part, isn't a solution, it's just feel good rhetoric.

Justin Credible Darts

xvril wrote: »

I think that is an outrageous statement. Could it not be said that black people are more likely to be criminals?

Being racist because people perceive them to be criminals is no excuse.

I guess i am going to have to educate on the part of my post you chose to completely ignore.


less than 1% of the population of Ireland is part of the traveling community.
Yet they make up 22% of the female prison population


they account for 15% of the male prison population.


These are the stats I referred to.

excludedbin

excludedbin wrote: »

People who fly into hysterics whenever the subject of immigrants existing in the same country as them comes up.

Deleted the long response, because I know it's pointless. Anyone who throws around racism accusations so early in joining a thread, has no intention in engaging with any degree of honesty, or respect for others.

We've seen a rash of bigots recently. Completely intolerant of others posts, and full of spite/bile in the manner of their posts. I'm tired of it, so I'll be bowing out of responding to these kind of posters. At least until one shows themselves capable of arguing/debating with a small amount of respect for others.