What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

John Doe1

If you consider yourself to hold liberal values, mass migration of people of the the muslim faith should be a worry.( In the same way, if there was a mass migration of Scientologists it would be a worry) It is absolutely nothing to do with skin colour.

From the far right publication of the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ity-sharia-law

-50% of all UK muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
-23% want Sharia law in UK.

Gervais08

John Doe1 wrote: »

If you consider yourself to hold liberal values, mass migration of people of the the muslim faith should be a worry.( In the same way, if there was a mass migration of Scientologists it would be a worry) It is absolutely nothing to do with skin colour.

From the far right publication of the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ity-sharia-law

-50% of all UK muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
-23% want Sharia law in UK.

The other half of a friend of mine works in a third level institution, big on diversity; equality - all the usual good stuff.

The parent of a Muslim student asked that a “obviously homosexual” (their phrase ugh!) be removed from their son’s accommodation.

The Uni in question (in the south of the country) is actually thinking about how to reply.

I know “f**k off bigot” is uncool but apparently there are staff who want to allow it.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

The other half of a friend of mine works in a third level institution, big on diversity; equality - all the usual good stuff.

The parent of a Muslim student asked that a “obviously homosexual” (their phrase ugh!) be removed from their son’s accommodation.

The Uni in question (in the south of the country) is actually thinking about how to reply.

I know “f**k off bigot” is uncool but apparently there are staff who want to allow it.

TBH I can't see the problem. If the university has control over the allocation of rooms and who shares with whom, then it does't sound so bad a request.

I think it's pretty bad to force acceptance on to others... As long, as they're not seeking to discriminate, or cause nasty things to happen, there's no harm with being separated from each other, even if that's based on sexual preferences. We often still separate based on gender/sex, and find it acceptable. (And yes, being Bisexual since my teens I have a fair understanding of what actual discrimination or hate is like. I just think forcing acceptance tends to lead to a major pushback)

I understand your pov, but honestly, I don't see a problem with the request... as long as the gay guy isn't being penalised in some way. Many universities control the allocation of rooms in certain establishments, especially when sponsorship or grants are concerned.

Gervais08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

TBH I can't see the problem. If the university has control over the allocation of rooms and who shares with whom, then it does't sound so bad a request.

I think it's pretty bad to force acceptance on to others... As long, as they're not seeking to discriminate, or cause nasty things to happen, there's no harm with being separated from each other, even if that's based on sexual preferences. We often still separate based on gender/sex, and find it acceptable. (And yes, being Bisexual since my teens I have a fair understanding of what actual discrimination or hate is like. I just think forcing acceptance tends to lead to a major pushback)

I understand your pov, but honestly, I don't see a problem with the request... as long as the gay guy isn't being penalised in some way. Many universities control the allocation of rooms in certain establishments, especially when sponsorship or grants are concerned.

From what I understand student housing is really sought after and this particular digs is first come, first served.

If the request is granted the gay student would be financially worse off and likely inconvenienced. Plus why should one person with Stone Age views be allowed to demand who lives in a building ???

Can you imagine if a Galway lad said he didn’t want to live with a Muslim??? It’s be the subject of a Claire Byrne!!

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

From what I understand student housing is really sought after and this particular digs is first come, first served.

If the request is granted the gay student would be financially worse off and likely inconvenienced. Plus why should one person with Stone Age views be allowed to demand who lives in a building ???

Can you imagine if a Galway lad said he didn’t want to live with a Muslim??? It’s be the subject of a Claire Byrne!!

Possibly, but then again, part of living in a multicultural world is recognising the very real and strong differences between cultures. This is a serious problem with those who are pro-multiculturalism... they seem to ignore all the possible frictions involved, and just assume that everyone will be happy. Somehow. And yet, that's not the case.

There are religious beliefs, like your example, where people will be disapproving of other forms of living... That doesn't necessarily mean that there's hate involved. It could be simply a desire to stay removed from them. Similar to Muslims finding sharing a kitchen where pork might be often served, and might request their own space away from everyone else. Or last year, I encountered American Mormons who were convinced that I was decadent because I had a different lifestyle to theirs, and they felt the need to live quite some distance from me (our apartments were in the same campus "hotel")

The point I'm making is that unless the gay person is being discriminated against, there shouldn't be an issue. Perhaps it's simply the case of wanting a different room.. or a misunderstanding about their own rights/expectations. However, if its out of spite, then, that's a different scenario completely.

I have friends in Ireland who are uncomfortable with gay people. They don't like seeing obvious signs of affection, deep kisses, or such. It bothers them. They're not rude or offensive about it, but it does bother them. Fair enough. It doesn't bother me... but I can appreciate that some people take much longer than others to adjust. I don't blame them for their feelings, because they don't blame me for having a boyfriend or a girlfriend, but at the same time, I don't push their faces into my affairs either. Their opinions aren't stone age views. I'm in my early 40s, and I can remember easily when being gay was just wrong in this country. It's not that long ago...

Multiculturalism is fraught with possible points of friction. Hell, our own society as it is without foreign culture is just as bad. Some people want to believe that they can snap their fingers and suddenly everyone will have changed, except for the homophobes, or racists, but real life is not like that. It takes time for society to adapt, but also for people themselves to become comfortable with it all... So, I think it's a bit much to expect Muslims to be all inclusive, when we're only that way on the surface ourselves. (Trust me, there's a lot of people who are uncomfortable with signs of affection by men in public. It's just the way it is.)

And, yes, I could imagine someone saying they didn't want to live with a Muslim... it would all come down to the reasons why... rather than simply the case of saying it (except for the twitter mob who would be wanting to chase the anti-christ)

xvril

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I guess i am going to have to educate on the part of my post you chose to completely ignore.


less than 1% of the population of Ireland is part of the traveling community.
Yet they make up 22% of the female prison population


they account for 15% of the male prison population.


These are the stats I referred to.

I bet you could draw up similar statistics about black people in America.

Does anyone ever ask why there are so many in prison? Or is it just ahh they're travellers thats what they do.

xvril

xvril wrote: »

I bet you could draw up similar statistics about black people in America.

Does anyone ever ask why there are so many in prison? Or is it just ahh they're travellers thats what they do.

No, the question has been asked... it's been answered... myriad excuses have been found... and then the realisation happens... that it doesn't matter.

There's no push for them to change. It's really that simple. Just as there's no push for Black people in America to change. All their problems come from external sources, or there's 'a reason' for them being that way. Change must come from without.. not from within.

AllForIt

Gervais08 wrote: »

The other half of a friend of mine works in a third level institution, big on diversity; equality - all the usual good stuff.

The parent of a Muslim student asked that a “obviously homosexual” (their phrase ugh!) be removed from their son’s accommodation.

The Uni in question (in the south of the country) is actually thinking about how to reply.

I know “f**k off bigot” is uncool but apparently there are staff who want to allow it.

Are they sharing the same bedroom?

If not that is outrageous, and if so it is the Muslim that should move because he's the one with the problem.

The idea of bending to his religious beliefs (if that is what is truly going on) is unconscionable.

Gervais08

AllForIt wrote: »

Are they sharing the same bedroom?

If not that is outrageous, and if so it is the Muslim that should move because he's the one with the problem.

The idea of bending to his religious beliefs (if that is what is truly going on) is unconscionable.

From what I understand they are dormitory style and something like 12 to a floor. Apparently the father wants him out the building.

I take klaz’s point absolutely but it is simply wrong that someone from overseas can demand an Irish person is treated differently because of their “culture” back home. But even worse that it is being entertained!!!

Justin Credible Darts

xvril wrote: »

I bet you could draw up similar statistics about black people in America.

Does anyone ever ask why there are so many in prison? Or is it just ahh they're travellers thats what they do.

put side your blinkers and agenda.


I posted actual stats...how you interpret them is your choice.
I know you would dearly love to make out posting of genuine stats is racist, but how how about instead of deflecting you come up with a logical reason as to why those stats are what they are instead of trying to hoodwink people behind claims of racism.


Men commit more murders than women, am I sexist to men now as well because of that stat.

Geuze

Gervais08 wrote: »

The other half of a friend of mine works in a third level institution, big on diversity; equality - all the usual good stuff.

The parent of a Muslim student asked that a “obviously homosexual” (their phrase ugh!) be removed from their son’s accommodation.

The Uni in question (in the south of the country) is actually thinking about how to reply.

I know “f**k off bigot” is uncool but apparently there are staff who want to allow it.

This is the conundrum facing the PC-brigade.

Who do they love more?

The homosexuals?

Or the muslim immigrants?

It's a challenge / dilemma.

On the one hand, they want to embrace same-sex marriage / lesbians, etc., yet at the same time, they wish to welcome, and accomodate people who have no time for homosexuality.

Tricky.

AllForIt

Gervais08 wrote: »

I take klaz’s point absolutely but it is simply wrong that someone from overseas can demand an Irish person is treated differently because of their “culture” back home. But even worse that it is being entertained!!!

I don't actually. Recognising differences is one thing but accommodating them is a different thing altogether. I don't agree when it's comes to advocates of multiculturalism that they're not aware there will be cultural clashes, they know full well there will be and they want the host country to accommodate those difference and not visa versa because they have decided it's the host natives that have the problem. There is no such thing as meeting half way on these kinds of issues and anyone who things there is a way is living in cloud cuckoo land, i.e. ideologues of one variety or another.

Justin Credible Darts

Geuze wrote: »

This is the conundrum facing the PC-brigade.

Who do they love more?

The homosexuals?

Or the muslim immigrants?

It's a challenge / dilemma.

On the one hand, they want to embrace same-sex marriage / lesbians, etc., yet at the same time, they wish to welcome, and accomodate people who have no time for homosexuality.

Tricky.

Indeed, they will attack anyone that even dares to question them, go on about womens right, gays right etc...which i agree with, but defend the very same arab people who treat women like absolute slaves, and dont get me started on the old arabs marring teenage brides, etc


why dont these people who love to dictate and preach hold the same values and be as dogmatic to the arabs ?


is it because they are hypocrites ?

Slowyourrole

John Doe1 wrote: »

If you consider yourself to hold liberal values, mass migration of people of the the muslim faith should be a worry.( In the same way, if there was a mass migration of Scientologists it would be a worry) It is absolutely nothing to do with skin colour.

From the far right publication of the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ity-sharia-law

-50% of all UK muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
-23% want Sharia law in UK.

Except the only people who generally talk about allowing unchecked mass migration are right wing people. I'm not aware of any poster here or major party that argues in favour of it.

Hamachi

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Except the only people who generally talk about allowing unchecked mass migration are right wing people. I'm not aware of any poster here or major party that argues in favour of it.

I’m not sure if PBP or Labour are considered major parties. However, their attempts to overturn the 27th amendment, a change instituted by the overwhelming democratic will of the Irish people, is a clear step towards unrestrained mass migration.

kildare lad

Hamachi wrote: »

Welcome to thread. Bit of background. I'm a regular Irish guy, late 30s, with a young family. I work long hours and pay a lot of tax. I'm happy to do this, primarily to support my family, but also because I see myself as a stakeholder, contributing to the betterment of Irish society. I'm in no way unique; my situation is replicated in tens of thousands of households across the country.

I'd like to ask you a direct question if I may. Can you provide a short, numbered list (say 1-3 or 1-5) of the tangible benefits I and my family accrue from multiculturalism?

I'd really appreciate a few line items, listing the rewards both individuals and Irish society can expect to reap.

I was struggling to think of anything myself. I'm not against immigration as I work with people from other countries mainly eastern europe and they're fine . Do I feel more enlightened or creative...no . We just build what's on the plan and go home . They're mainly sound and pull their weight , but on the flip side of multiculturalism some eastern Europeans have destroyed the fishing in my area due to netting the canals and killing everything they catch . We used to get English anglers coming over all summer and spending their money in the local pubs and B and B's but as eastern Europeans wrecked the canals they don't come anymore to spend their money in the local community. So not everything multicultural is a good thing . What I will say is we took in too many wasters during the boom years and the've been nothing but taxpayers black hole since they got here.

If you look at japan , it's probably one of the most successful countries in the world and yet it's the least diverse . They don't take in anyone unless they're highly skilled and aren't who gonna be a burden on the taxpayer. Sadly the same can't be said for governments in Europe, hence the growing populatrity of right wing politics all across europe .

I copied and pasted that below of google.

Diverse cultural perspectives can inspire creativity and drive innovation
Local market knowledge and insight makes a business more competitive and profitable
Cultural sensitivity, insight, and local knowledge means higher quality, targeted marketing
Drawing from a culturally diverse talent pool allows an organization to attract and retain the best talent
A diverse skills base allows an organization to offer a broader and more adaptable range of products and services
Diverse teams are more productive and perform better
Greater opportunity for personal and professional growth

Wibbs

Hamachi wrote: »

I’m not sure if PBP or Labour are considered major parties. However, their attempts to overturn the 27th amendment, a change instituted by the overwhelming democratic will of the Irish people, is a clear step towards unrestrained mass migration.

What I don't understand is their aim in this? The Irish people in a clear majority, one of the highest in any vote in recent decades, rejected this legislation, legislation that no other EU nation has, legislation that is ripe for exploitation and was exploited in the past. When you consider that the vast majority of those who settled here on the back of that loophole would be refused entry today it makes no sense.

Never mind that it was rejected at the height of an economic boom when people tend to be more open to such things, yet with one hard economic landing behind us and a highly likely recession because of the pandemic they're pushing to retract that decision without putting it to the Irish people? Never mind part two that the usual "reason" given is we need more people, when Ireland has the highest birth rate in the EU. I would love to hear what their reasoning behind this push is.

TheBlackPill

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Indeed, they will attack anyone that even dares to question them, go on about womens right, gays right etc...which i agree with, but defend the very same arab people who treat women like absolute slaves, and dont get me started on the old arabs marring teenage brides, etc


why dont these people who love to dictate and preach hold the same values and be as dogmatic to the arabs ?


is it because they are hypocrites ?

Not hypocrites. Just afraid of the arab/muslim

enricoh

There's 4 stories in the crime section of the independent.ie page today.
1- gardai update their hate crime technology
2- cops seize 600k cash off vietnamese and polish weed gangs
3- lithuanian criminal gangs are importing lethal hippy crack gas canisters
4- pakistani sham marriage gang has 70 cars seized in tipp worth 2 million.
With the cop getting killed in croydon and the stabbings in France it's been a bad few days for the , eh, benefits of multiculturalism!

TheBlackPill

Wibbs wrote: »

What I don't understand is their aim in this? The Irish people in a clear majority, one of the highest in any vote in recent decades, rejected this legislation, legislation that no other EU nation has, legislation that is ripe for exploitation and was exploited in the past. When you consider that the vast majority of those who settled here on the back of that loophole would be refused entry today it makes no sense.

Never mind that it was rejected at the height of an economic boom when people tend to be more open to such things, yet with one hard economic landing behind us and a highly likely recession because of the pandemic they're pushing to retract that decision without putting it to the Irish people? Never mind part two that the usual "reason" given is we need more people, when Ireland has the highest birth rate in the EU. I would love to hear what their reasoning behind this push is.

Cash from rich Gulf state countries and the brotherhoox. Funds a lot of electioneering. Journalists have also been bought. All we get is soft soap pro Islam propaganda pieces

Wibbs

kildare lad wrote: »

I copied and pasted that below of google.

Diverse cultural perspectives can inspire creativity and drive innovation
Local market knowledge and insight makes a business more competitive and profitable
Cultural sensitivity, insight, and local knowledge means higher quality, targeted marketing
Drawing from a culturally diverse talent pool allows an organization to attract and retain the best talent
A diverse skills base allows an organization to offer a broader and more adaptable range of products and services
Diverse teams are more productive and perform better
Greater opportunity for personal and professional growth

Except for the very first sentence, the rest assume an existing multicultural society and most importantly how to sell to them. It's not exactly a great list of positives for the politic itself and as you've pointed out Japan doesn't suffer because of its lack of "diversity" and neither do the rest of the East Asian nations, who for the most part have resisted this politic.

TheBlackPill wrote: »

Not hypocrites. Just afraid of the arab/muslim

I don't see fear, what I see is old style European orientalism, the fascination with the exotic, a fascination that is centuries old.

suicide_circus

Wibbs wrote: »

What I don't understand is their aim in this? The Irish people in a clear majority, one of the highest in any vote in recent decades, rejected this legislation, legislation that no other EU nation has, legislation that is ripe for exploitation and was exploited in the past. When you consider that the vast majority of those who settled here on the back of that loophole would be refused entry today it makes no sense.

It's the old old story Wibbs. With The Internationale ringing in their ears, they fundamentally oppose the concept of the sovereign independent nation state which controls it's own borders as it sees fit. This bastion of individual freedom is an anathema to them.

TheBlackPill

Wibbs wrote: »

Except for the very first sentence, the rest assume an existing multicultural society and most importantly how to sell to them. It's not exactly a great list of positives for the politic itself and as you've pointed out Japan doesn't suffer because of its lack of "diversity" and neither do the rest of the East Asian nations, who for the most part have resisted this politic.

I don't see fear, what I see is old style European orientalism, the fascination with the exotic, a fascination that is centuries old.

I see fear. I see it at work and about the town. They fear violence if they don't kowtow to them and they also fear being labelled as far right if they reject them.. also left wingers see the niche idealogies and the muslims as weapons to chip away at our system, so when the system collapses the lefties will be left in charge. The Spanish civil war and the iranian revolution are lessons they dont want to incorporate.. and if its old fashioned orientalism why dont they gravitate to east Asian cultures?

Mullaghteelin

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Except the only people who generally talk about allowing unchecked mass migration are right wing people. I'm not aware of any poster here or major party that argues in favour of it.

The reason they don't argue in favour of it, is because no argument is allowed. No questions on the issue are allowed without politicians, NGOs and media all competing to scream the loudest condemnation. Debate is suppressed. There is no opposing argument, there is only the correct opinion.
Fine Gael and the Greens have been quite open about their plans for a diverse country of so many extra million residents.

Slowyourrole

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Except the only people who generally talk about allowing unchecked mass migration are right wing people. I'm not aware of any poster here or major party that argues in favour of it.

Ahh well, TBH, I've never seen anyone ever suggest unchecked mass migration. Oh, it's likely a side effect of some changes though. Like the debate that's happening about Direct Provision, where people called for the abolish of the practice, and... replacing it with nothing. Just talk about better screening but no mention of what would be done to hold bogus claims. Such things are ignored in favor of stating their desire to remove whatever is deemed a negative.

the unchecked mass migration thingy is an accusation leveled at either side. Those who favor migrants will say that the other side are hysterical about it happening, and those who are anti, will say the pro want it.. but nobody actually advocates for it except for some nutty activists on twitter, or other social media.

kildare lad wrote: »

Diverse cultural perspectives can inspire creativity and drive innovation
Local market knowledge and insight makes a business more competitive and profitable
Cultural sensitivity, insight, and local knowledge means higher quality, targeted marketing
Drawing from a culturally diverse talent pool allows an organization to attract and retain the best talent
A diverse skills base allows an organization to offer a broader and more adaptable range of products and services
Diverse teams are more productive and perform better
Greater opportunity for personal and professional growth

The problem with all of that is that they can already be provided by a native population. Insight into cultural perspectives can be taught as part of sensitivity training, and is already part of many management training programs. Besides, we have a sizable native population who have worked in foreign cultures and returned carrying their insights which can be passed on to others. The list wouldn't be benefits of multiculturalism, since Europe is already one of the most innovative continents in the world, and considering the failure of the nations that migrants come from, it's highly questionable whether, we would be receiving innovative ideas from their addition.

Most of the times I see benefits for multiculturalism, they're based on the assumption that there's something wrong with western society and so, we can fix those problems with an influx of foreign culture/peoples... and yet, we are a primary target for migration because our society has been so successful without such multiculturalism, and there's little to prove that we need to change that way. If anything there's the obvious logic quandary, that the present form of letting in all migrants (not prioritizing specific races/cultures) doesn't make sense, since we have no control in determining what values are most useful, and can contribute to the whole... being specific to particular cultural groups is apparently racist after all.. so...

excludedbin

"Debate is suppressed" he says, without a shred of irony, on one of multiple threads on this site alone that do nothing but mock and condemn anyone who isn't rabidly anti-immigrant.

What's the point of debate with someone that detached from reality? It's like the kind of dope who says "I know I'm not allowed say this thing I'm about to say right now and no one will actually stop me".

TomTomTim

excludedbin wrote: »

"Debate is suppressed" he says, without a shred of irony, on one of multiple threads on this site alone that do nothing but mock and condemn anyone who isn't rabidly anti-immigrant.

What's the point of debate with someone that detached from reality? It's like the kind of dope who says "I know I'm not allowed say this thing I'm about to say right now and no one will actually stop me".

Agreed, there's no point. Most poster like yourself aren't here to debate as you claim, you are here to throw around insults like you've just done. Everyone of you follow the same pattern: call people far right, racists, anti immigrant, insane, detached from reality. The aforementioned makes up at least 90% of your posts, so don't bother your arse pretending that you are here for a debate in good faith. Why don't you try argue some points without insulting people, and see how that goes for you?

macpaccrack

Another hit and run done on a foreign national. Left to die on the road probably by some Irish scumbags joyriding the back roads.

macpaccrack

macpaccrack wrote: »

Another hit and run done on a foreign national. Left to die on the road probably by some Irish scumbags joyriding the back roads.

And? What's the relevance?

Slowyourrole

Deleted User wrote: »

And? What's the relevance?

The problem with multiculturalism isn't generally the people who want to come here.