House sold for less than my offer

Runninghard

In December last I put in a series of offers (€400k - €430k) on a 3 bed terraced property which the Estate Agent subsequently said was upped by another bidder. I was really interested in it (location, size and condition) but had reached my limit.

I noticed recently on Property Price Register that it sold in April (i.e 4 months later) for €20k LESS than I had bid. The for sale/sale agreed sign was for the same EA so I don't think it was a matter of a new agent not getting anywhere near my offer. I am still looking for a place and am very annoyed with this.

Has anyone here every come across this before - and is there anything I can do about it (apart from badmouthing the EA) ?

Thanks.

cbb1982

Runninghard wrote: »

In December last I put in a series of offers (€400k - €430k) on a 3 bed terraced property which the Estate Agent subsequently said was upped by another bidder. I was really interested in it (location, size and condition) but had reached my limit.

I noticed recently on Property Price Register that it sold in April (i.e 4 months later) for €20k LESS than I had bid. The for sale/sale agreed sign was for the same EA so I don't think it was a matter of a new agent not getting anywhere near my offer. I am still looking for a place and am very annoyed with this.

Has anyone here every come across this before - and is there anything I can do about it (apart from badmouthing the EA) ?

Thanks.

Probably cash involved in sale

Graham

Or survey turned up issues and price was renegotiated.

Nijmegen

Assuming no issue with the house leading to a later reduction in price, vendors can and should consider their buyer based on who they believe will actually close the deal in the quickest and most reliable way. You should always think about how you present to the EA and the vendor in this sense.

Though it could well have just been something came up in the due diligence.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Or survey turned up issues and price was renegotiated.

This.

I'd say you were legitimately outbid, but after that point there are a number of things that would cause the buyer to renegotiate the price. That could have been defects noted in the structural survey, issues with the bank valuation (if a mortgage is involved) or even factors to do with the house that made house insurance difficult to source or expensive. With the sale being in April, it even could have been COVID related. €20k would be less than 5% of the overall price, which wouldn't be an unusual amount to ask for during a renegotiation.

I can't see why the EA would be inclined to lie, and if they are, there's no way to prove it.

Graham

When you are outbid, logic goes out the window and bogeymen hide behind every corner.

That's not particularly directed at you OP, more of a general observation.

Runninghard

Graham wrote: »

When you are outbid, logic goes out the window and bogeymen hide behind every corner.

That's not particularly directed at you OP, more of a general observation.

Thanks. I've been outbid a couple of times but never underbid before. Point taken though.

Thanks for all the response so far - they all make valid points. I had lots of interaction with the EA over the preceding weeks, My opening offer was just shy of the asking price as it had been for sale previously at a higher price but the then purchaser lost their job and mortgage offer (I knew of them). I also told the EA I was a cash buyer so there would be no delay in the sale.

Think i'll shoot off an email to the EA and see what they say.

Salmon Leap

Runninghard wrote: »

Thanks. I've been outbid a couple of times but never underbid before. Point taken though.

Thanks for all the response so far - they all make valid points. I had lots of interaction with the EA over the preceding weeks, My opening offer was just shy of the asking price as it had been for sale previously at a higher price but the then purchaser lost their job and mortgage offer (I knew of them). I also told the EA I was a cash buyer so there would be no delay in the sale.

Think i'll shoot off an email to the EA and see what they say.

EAs have some strange ways of doing business. A few years ago we had to sell a cottage and two sellers both bid the same and could go no further so the EA asked both to write a letter stating why theirs should be the chosen bid!

saabsaab

Happened to me also. They went with someone else maybe they were local and cash buyer no mortgage etc etc. Another said bidding had ended and I was too late.

Darc19

Not sure if it applies these days, but are contents sometimes paid for separately.

I remember selling a house years ago and the official price was £1 (yes, that long ago) under a higher stamp duty price, but £10,000 was paid for "contents".

El Tarangu

Darc19 wrote: »

I remember selling a house years ago and the official price was £1 (yes, that long ago) under a higher stamp duty price, but £10,000 was paid for "contents".

I'm not sure which ages you more; the £1, or the fact that the 'real' price was still only £10k!

Apollinaris

Runninghard wrote: »

In December last I put in a series of offers (€400k - €430k) on a 3 bed terraced property which the Estate Agent subsequently said was upped by another bidder. I was really interested in it (location, size and condition) but had reached my limit.

I noticed recently on Property Price Register that it sold in April (i.e 4 months later) for €20k LESS than I had bid. The for sale/sale agreed sign was for the same EA so I don't think it was a matter of a new agent not getting anywhere near my offer. I am still looking for a place and am very annoyed with this.

Has anyone here every come across this before - and is there anything I can do about it (apart from badmouthing the EA) ?

Thanks.

What? Estate agents are lying through their teeth, make up imaginary bids and occasionally let some friend/family member to have a better deal? Well I never!

Apollinaris

Runninghard wrote: »

In December last I put in a series of offers (€400k - €430k) on a 3 bed terraced property which the Estate Agent subsequently said was upped by another bidder. I was really interested in it (location, size and condition) but had reached my limit.

I noticed recently on Property Price Register that it sold in April (i.e 4 months later) for €20k LESS than I had bid. The for sale/sale agreed sign was for the same EA so I don't think it was a matter of a new agent not getting anywhere near my offer. I am still looking for a place and am very annoyed with this.

Has anyone here every come across this before - and is there anything I can do about it (apart from badmouthing the EA) ?

Thanks.

What? Estate agents are lying through their teeth, make up imaginary bids and occasionally let some friend/family member to have a better deal? Well I never!

Darc19

El Tarangu wrote: »

I'm not sure which ages you more; the £1, or the fact that the 'real' price was still only £10k!

The contents were £10,000

The house was about £250,000 and the stamp duty started at that for first time buyers

So in reality they paid £260,000 but it was recorded as £249,999

ChewBerecca

We had a similar problem last year.

We were first time buyers (AIP, no chain, large deposit ready), other crowd were in a chain and looking to get planning permission for a second house on the land (our engineer got to hear their story when the EA "double booked" our survey with their additional viewing).

We were first offer at asking (350k), house was on the market a year and owners just wanted asking (probate sale).

We bowed out when the latest bit was 405k.

It sold five months later for 375k.

EA was brutal throughout the entire experience. Completely disinterested in the property because it was on the books for so long. Never answered his phone or returned calls. I wouldn't be surprised if there was never a bid above 375k and the 405k was a tactic to try get us up to 410k.

amacca

Runninghard wrote: »

In December last I put in a series of offers (€400k - €430k) on a 3 bed terraced property which the Estate Agent subsequently said was upped by another bidder. I was really interested in it (location, size and condition) but had reached my limit.

I noticed recently on Property Price Register that it sold in April (i.e 4 months later) for €20k LESS than I had bid. The for sale/sale agreed sign was for the same EA so I don't think it was a matter of a new agent not getting anywhere near my offer. I am still looking for a place and am very annoyed with this.

Has anyone here every come across this before - and is there anything I can do about it (apart from badmouthing the EA) ?

Thanks.

I had something similar about a year ago bid 261 on a house (cottage half acre site) ....cottage in need of complete overhaul etc


Auctioneer said it wouldn't be enough I stayed firm and said it was my bid (which was more than they said they had on it at the time albeit only by 1.5k)

Never got back to me and I saw it sold at 260 there a couple of months ago

Assumed money changed hands under the counter or it was for a crony unless I was willing to go over the odds, not massively put out either it was enough to pay for a place you would have to plough significant amounts of money into just to make it liveable and is say is only have been entertained if I was willing to go much much higher.....

The not getting back to me to see if I'd go further told me it was for somebody else anyway, last time that happened to me the property didn't sell at all and the auctioneer is still sitting on it, was told later he's building up a nice little landbank in the area, how true that is I don't know.

Anyway , move on I say, life is too short and you'll probably be much happier with what you do get when it comes to property.....dealing with lads that aren't really selling or have it sold beforehand unless you go sky high isn't worth the hassle and you'd probably regret the purchase.

Darc19

amacca wrote: »

I had something similar about a year ago bid 261 on a house (cottage half acre site) ....cottage in need of complete overhaul etc


Auctioneer said it wouldn't be enough I stayed firm and said it was my bid (which was more than they said they had on it at the time albeit only by 1.5k)

Never got back to me and I saw it sold at 260 there a couple of months ago

Assumed money changed hands under the counter or it was for a crony unless I was willing to go over the odds, not massively put out either it was enough to pay for a place you would have to plough significant amounts of money into just to make it liveable and is say is only have been entertained if I was willing to go much much higher.....

.

If it was 50k under, maybe a crony, but virtually at the price you offered, which you thought was full value, there's no advantage.

I've bought sold several times over the years and agents would advise on their opinion of the bidders.
"very genuine" was a phrase I liked.

One sale of a holiday home came with a "wants to complete quickly" and was 5k over another bidder.

I still effing rue the day I accepted the higher offer. It took 7 months to close.

Basically, you are selling yourself as well as making a bid.

Ray Palmer

Had the same happen to me. Yes there are legitimate reasons for sales ending up cheaper. My personal experience was it was outright scheming.
Was bidding on a house that backed into another piece of property I already owned. It would have made for a good investment as it would have allowed better access to what I already owned giving a good option to build another property. As such the property had a higher value to us than the general public.

There was very little action on the property and we didn't want the estate agent to know what we owned as they would know we would pay more.

We put in a reasonable offer above the asking price. Suddenly there was a crazy bidding war. We put in a final offer about 15k above the real value to secure it but apparently there was a higher offer.

We declined and let it go. Then I saw the owner after sale agreed and said I was surprised they got so much. He was flabbergasted because the accepted and offer €25k less than ours. He was so far along he didn't want to pull out and we decided to do something else.

Anyway the buyer was the estate agents cousin.

So some years passed and I get a call from the agent asking about if I wanted to sell a piece of our property. A very large garage that butted against the garden of the house. This was why it was worth us buying. Anyway he had a client that was looking for the garage

Basically if they bought the garage and added it to their property it would be worth at least 25% more and more again if planning was applied for.

They were offering well below what the garage was worth and it was worth a lot more to them. So as I was talking to the agent, he didn't realise I was the person who had been bidding on the house before, I mention his cousins name. Suggesting I might contact them to see if they were interested. He gets all flustered and starts babbling. I then ask about how the house sold for less than we bid and wasn't he related to the buyer.

Then they put the house up for sale. With open viewings times. Still would be good for us to buy but we weren't going to let them make profit off us. So at viewing times I turn up with my motorbike and open my garage while loudly fixing it. Revving the engine, cursing very loudly when things weren't working. Bought rotting fish and left it in the garage so the smell was the any time I wasn't.of course they tried to talk to me and explain how this affected their sale and I had never used the garage before and it seemed strange and what was the smell. It went on and they were getting no offers so they offered to sell it to me at a discount. Agreed to buy it went through the motions and then pulled out after 6 months. They sold at a loss in the end. I sent the new buyers a bottle of wine and congratulated them on such a good deal telling them the garage would not be a problem and if they ever had an issue let me know.

Sorry very long but I did enjoy my time

awec

Remind me to never piss you off Ray Palmer!

Ray Palmer

awec wrote: »

Remind me to never piss you off Ray Palmer!

The funniest thing I did was spent 2 hours painting a pentogram on the garage door. Very loud heavy metal while smoking very long rolies.

I certainly can't sing but I tried my best to sing along to make sure the lyrics were heard.

They called the Gardai on me that time. So instead of me the people viewing saw Gardai talking to the neighbour with a half painted pentogram on their door.

The_Conductor

I've just snorted coffee all over my laptop.......

random_banter

That's really annoying for you OP. In addition to what others have said, I don't think there is an obligation to sell to the highest bidder (even though it could make more fiscal sense to the buyer). Of my my friends bought a house last year and the sellers (not the EA) just decided they decided they wanted the house to go to them, even though there was a late higher bidder. It was a very emotionally driven decision "they seemed like a lovely young couple needing a good start" etc. They weren't motivated by the additional 5k. Not ideal for you but I don't think there's much that can be done about it.

SozBbz

@Ray Palmer - all I can say is LOL.

Anyway, back to the OP, we completed on our house for about €15k less than what was origionally agreed, so what we actually paid was in line with what the other bidders would have bid.

Our original surveyor advised us to get a specialist to look at the roof, which we did. We were told is was past the point of repair and needed immediate replacement. We found another few smaller issues and went back to the EA/Vendor with our list. We agreed for him to see to a few of the smaller issues himself and the €15k off in relation to the roof specifically.

fret_wimp2

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Had the same happen to me. Yes there are legitimate reasons for sales ending up cheaper. My personal experience was it was outright scheming.
Was bidding on a house that backed into another piece of property I already owned. It would have made for a good investment as it would have allowed better access to what I already owned giving a good option to build another property. As such the property had a higher value to us than the general public.

There was very little action on the property and we didn't want the estate agent to know what we owned as they would know we would pay more.

We put in a reasonable offer above the asking price. Suddenly there was a crazy bidding war. We put in a final offer about 15k above the real value to secure it but apparently there was a higher offer.

We declined and let it go. Then I saw the owner after sale agreed and said I was surprised they got so much. He was flabbergasted because the accepted and offer €25k less than ours. He was so far along he didn't want to pull out and we decided to do something else.

Anyway the buyer was the estate agents cousin.

So some years passed and I get a call from the agent asking about if I wanted to sell a piece of our property. A very large garage that butted against the garden of the house. This was why it was worth us buying. Anyway he had a client that was looking for the garage

Basically if they bought the garage and added it to their property it would be worth at least 25% more and more again if planning was applied for.

They were offering well below what the garage was worth and it was worth a lot more to them. So as I was talking to the agent, he didn't realise I was the person who had been bidding on the house before, I mention his cousins name. Suggesting I might contact them to see if they were interested. He gets all flustered and starts babbling. I then ask about how the house sold for less than we bid and wasn't he related to the buyer.

Then they put the house up for sale. With open viewings times. Still would be good for us to buy but we weren't going to let them make profit off us. So at viewing times I turn up with my motorbike and open my garage while loudly fixing it. Revving the engine, cursing very loudly when things weren't working. Bought rotting fish and left it in the garage so the smell was the any time I wasn't.of course they tried to talk to me and explain how this affected their sale and I had never used the garage before and it seemed strange and what was the smell. It went on and they were getting no offers so they offered to sell it to me at a discount. Agreed to buy it went through the motions and then pulled out after 6 months. They sold at a loss in the end. I sent the new buyers a bottle of wine and congratulated them on such a good deal telling them the garage would not be a problem and if they ever had an issue let me know.

Sorry very long but I did enjoy my time

Thats an awful lot of effort over a long held grudge that really didnt affect you in the long term. Maybe the time, effort and hassle caused to those you could see and those you couldn't was worth it. I cant help but think that simply not letting it into your head after it was gone would be a much healthier use of time and energy.

sweet_trip

You should ring the agent and ask why. Wouldn't let that slide.
I'm sure they'll have an answer for you. Whether it'll be true or not is another story.

Pkiernan

random_banter wrote: »

That's really annoying for you OP. In addition to what others have said, I don't think there is an obligation to sell to the highest bidder (even though it could make more fiscal sense to the buyer). Of my my friends bought a house last year and the sellers (not the EA) just decided they decided they wanted the house to go to them, even though there was a late higher bidder. It was a very emotionally driven decision "they seemed like a lovely young couple needing a good start" etc. They weren't motivated by the additional 5k. Not ideal for you but I don't think there's much that can be done about it.

I believe that there us an obligation on the EA to report all bids to the seller though.

Could have been some shenanigans here.

seamus

Runninghard wrote: »

Think i'll shoot off an email to the EA and see what they say.

I know there's a part of your brain that needs this itch to be scratched, but the EA is under no obligation to tell you anything about the sale, they can even respond with a bunch of lies.

You're almost definitely wasting your time, and you risk blacklisting yourself with the EA if another property comes up.

Yes that does happen too - purchasers (and their solicitors) who are known to be high maintenance often find themselves losing out because the EA advises the vendor that the buyer may make the sale unnecessarily difficult.

sweet_trip

seamus wrote: »

I know there's a part of your brain that needs this itch to be scratched, but the EA is under no obligation to tell you anything about the sale, they can even respond with a bunch of lies.

You're almost definitely wasting your time, and you risk blacklisting yourself with the EA if another property comes up.

Doubt you'd risk being blacklisted for asking a simple question. It takes 30 seconds to write an email. Yeah they don't have to respond or tell the truth but if you don't ask you'll never know.

Markitron

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Had the same happen to me. Yes there are legitimate reasons for sales ending up cheaper. My personal experience was it was outright scheming.
Was bidding on a house that backed into another piece of property I already owned. It would have made for a good investment as it would have allowed better access to what I already owned giving a good option to build another property. As such the property had a higher value to us than the general public.

There was very little action on the property and we didn't want the estate agent to know what we owned as they would know we would pay more.

We put in a reasonable offer above the asking price. Suddenly there was a crazy bidding war. We put in a final offer about 15k above the real value to secure it but apparently there was a higher offer.

We declined and let it go. Then I saw the owner after sale agreed and said I was surprised they got so much. He was flabbergasted because the accepted and offer €25k less than ours. He was so far along he didn't want to pull out and we decided to do something else.

Anyway the buyer was the estate agents cousin.

So some years passed and I get a call from the agent asking about if I wanted to sell a piece of our property. A very large garage that butted against the garden of the house. This was why it was worth us buying. Anyway he had a client that was looking for the garage

Basically if they bought the garage and added it to their property it would be worth at least 25% more and more again if planning was applied for.

They were offering well below what the garage was worth and it was worth a lot more to them. So as I was talking to the agent, he didn't realise I was the person who had been bidding on the house before, I mention his cousins name. Suggesting I might contact them to see if they were interested. He gets all flustered and starts babbling. I then ask about how the house sold for less than we bid and wasn't he related to the buyer.

Then they put the house up for sale. With open viewings times. Still would be good for us to buy but we weren't going to let them make profit off us. So at viewing times I turn up with my motorbike and open my garage while loudly fixing it. Revving the engine, cursing very loudly when things weren't working. Bought rotting fish and left it in the garage so the smell was the any time I wasn't.of course they tried to talk to me and explain how this affected their sale and I had never used the garage before and it seemed strange and what was the smell. It went on and they were getting no offers so they offered to sell it to me at a discount. Agreed to buy it went through the motions and then pulled out after 6 months. They sold at a loss in the end. I sent the new buyers a bottle of wine and congratulated them on such a good deal telling them the garage would not be a problem and if they ever had an issue let me know.

Sorry very long but I did enjoy my time

You sir, are nothing less than a genius.

seamus

sweet_trip wrote: »

Doubt you'd risk being blacklisted for asking a simple question. It takes 30 seconds to write an email. Yeah they don't have to respond or tell the truth but if you don't ask you'll never know.

It's all in the phrasing.

You'd be surprised at the kind of rants and accusations that get made by people "just asking a simple question"

brisan

Pkiernan wrote: »

I believe that there us an obligation on the EA to report all bids to the seller though.

Could have been some shenanigans here.

Shenanigans you say ,how dare you
Next you will be saying I should not trust the real pillars of truth ,the used car salesman
Myself and my brothers have bought a few properties both for personal family use and for investment/ flipping purposes
One thing we have learned
With 99% of Estate Agents you can tell they are lying when their lips move
Only problem nowadays is you cant see their lips move
A Quick look at DAFT will show this
We have in the past called to the vendor direct and told them our bid and aske what they were prepared to settle for
EA have on occasion not told the vendor we were cash buyers