Detective Garda Colm Horkan killed in Castlerea, Roscommon - [MOD WARNING POST #1]

na1

Just a reminder about "life sentence" in Ireland:
Currently the average time before the person serving a "life sentence" is released is between 18 and 22 years (according to different sources)

It was only 7.5 years in 1980-s, and around 12 years in 2000-s

walshb

TheCitizen wrote: »

A routine patrol? Any time I've seen a routine patrol or Garda road checkpoint there would be at least two Guards or more. Why would a detective be doing routine patrols. You don't need armed Gardai for routine patrols.

It was a very random incident that maybe couldn't have been prevented but hopefully there will be some tightening of safety procedures for Gardai arising from it.

I could be well off, but I find it a bit odd that an armed detective would be on his own on routine anti crime patrols.......

Just sounds a bit off....and I am in no way up to speed on how AGS works....

Maybe it's standard stuff.

He was in a garda car, yes?

walshb

na1 wrote: »

Just a reminder about "life sentence" in Ireland:
Currently the average time before the person serving a "life sentence" is released is between 18 and 22 years (according to different sources)

It was only 7.5 years in 1980-s, and around 12 years in 2000-s

That's right

And if this person gets convicted and sentenced to 40 years, he will serve no more than 30 years all going "well."

The 40 years for capital murder (death sentence abolished in favor of 40 years) is still in place I think?

TheCitizen

walshb wrote: »

I could be well off, but I find it a bit odd that an armed detective would be on his own on routine anti crime patrols.......

Just sounds a bit off....and I am in no way up to speed on how AGS works....

Maybe it's standard stuff.

He was in a garda car, yes?

That's what I thought. A lot of questions arising from this and many of them reviewing operational issues for the Gardai themselves.

walshb

Witcher wrote: »

DDU cars are unmarked, about 50% of a detective's job is proactive patrols of a district to gather intelligence. They don't do routine calls but are available for robbery, burglary calls etc. Most of what they do is proactive patrols of a district stopping dodgy looking cars, stopping criminals known to them noting who they're with and where they're going.

I get you....

I just found it odd......but no reason to I suppose...

I guess when I think of detective and armed detectives I more think of call outs and specific incidents...not the more run of the mill routine type patrolling.

seamus

Witcher wrote: »

DDU cars are unmarked, about 50% of a detective's job is proactive patrols of a district to gather intelligence. They don't do routine calls but are available for robbery, burglary calls etc. Most of what they do is proactive patrols of a district stopping dodgy looking cars, stopping criminals known to them noting who they're with and where they're going.

This. And in rural areas especially a detective might be more inclined to get involved in random traffic stops or public order incidents. In Dublin or Cork detectives will leave this work to Traffic or uniforms, but rural stations have a more "all hands on deck" approach.

nacho libre

TheCitizen wrote: »

Reading an article from the mirror online that says there were Gardai in Castlerea Garda station 5 minutes walk away who heard the shots and were obviously quick on the scene. .

In reality, particularly in a small town, you don't expect the unexpected -
He probably had done that patrol numerous times without any incident.

nj27

I remember when Malcolm McArthur was released after 30 years it was noted that he was one of the longest serving prisoners in the country. Begs the question, if somebody is sentenced to life in prison for murder why is 30 years the upper limit? There are certain cases where they need to throw away the key.

kravmaga

This Stephen Silver was obviously a nut job, he had threatened a Garda previously with a samurai sword.

Whether the Detective Garda recognised him from previous encounters is not known at this stage.

What I am hearing on the ground is Stephen Silver was high as a kite and was involved in a domestic incident with his Mrs on Main Street.

Being a mechanic he would be a strong guy plus under the influence of drugs would influence the fight or flight syndrome.

Someone who empties a full mag of 15 bullets is someone demented.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5558442/colm-horkan-shot-dead-stephen-silver-castlerea-co-mayo/

This RTE Primetime from Thursday 18th June report is worth watching.

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/prime-time/SI0000000825?epguid=IH000382996

nacho libre

seamus wrote: »

This. And in rural areas especially a detective might be more inclined to get involved in random traffic stops or public order incidents. In Dublin or Cork detectives will leave this work to Traffic or uniforms, but rural stations have a more "all hands on deck" approach.

He also knew the suspect, so maybe thought he could resolve the situation by himself. The detective seemed to be a nice fellow, so it's really hard to understand how it escalated. You could maybe understand it if he was heavy handed in his dealings, but by all accounts he was the opposite of this. The harsh reality is the humane approach may have cost him his life.

LuasSimon

Guards are on their own because of cost cutting over a number of years particularly down to Alan Shatter of Fine Gael.
Most towns and villages in rural Ireland lost their garda stations , Castlerea has a garda station because theres a prison in the town . Only for that Fine Gael would have closed that Garda station along with all the others.

walshb

kravmaga wrote: »

This Stephen Silver was obviously a nut job, he had threatened a Garda previously with a samurai sword.

Whether the Detective Garda recognised him from previous encounters is not known at this stage.

What I am hearing on the ground is he was high as a kite and was involved in a serious domestic incident with his Mrs on Main Street.

Being a mechanic he would be a strong guy plus under the influence of drugs would influence the fight or flight syndrome.

Someone who empties a full mag of 15 bullets is someone demented.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5558442/colm-horkan-shot-dead-stephen-silver-castlerea-co-mayo/

Interesting.

If it transpires that Colm Horkan was sent to a domestic dispute or issue for this known dangerous man, without backup, then serious questions need answering. Similar to Garda Golden who was murdered a few years ago. Or if Colm Horkan took it upon himself to go alone....?

From what I know this is not the case. Routine crime patrol that Colm Horkan happened upon...

walshb

nj27 wrote: »

I remember when Malcolm McArthur was released after 30 years it was noted that he was one of the longest serving prisoners in the country. Begs the question, if somebody is sentenced to life in prison for murder why is 30 years the upper limit? There are certain cases where they need to throw away the key.

Certain cases? All lifers should have the key thrown away...

Life should mean absolute life...

If they cannot do this, then a minimum type sentence of say 40 years, maybe more.

Gruffalux

kravmaga wrote: »

This Stephen Silver was obviously a nut job, he had threatened a Garda previously with a samurai sword.

Whether the Detective Garda recognised him from previous encounters is not known at this stage.

What I am hearing on the ground is Stephen Silver was high as a kite and was involved in a serious domestic incident with his Mrs on Main Street.

Being a mechanic he would be a strong guy plus under the influence of drugs would influence the fight or flight syndrome.

Someone who empties a full mag of 15 bullets is someone demented.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5558442/colm-horkan-shot-dead-stephen-silver-castlerea-co-mayo/

Someone high as a kite has made a choice to be that way.

LuasSimon

kravmaga wrote: »

This Stephen Silver was obviously a nut job, he had threatened a Garda previously with a samurai sword.

Whether the Detective Garda recognised him from previous encounters is not known at this stage.

What I am hearing on the ground is Stephen Silver was high as a kite and was involved in a serious domestic incident with his Mrs on Main Street.

Being a mechanic he would be a strong guy plus under the influence of drugs would influence the fight or flight syndrome.

Someone who empties a full mag of 15 bullets is someone demented.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5558442/colm-horkan-shot-dead-stephen-silver-castlerea-co-mayo/

People try to say Drugs are ok but here we are with someone High as a Kite killing a guard......who sold this individual drugs?....What local free legal aid solicitor protects local drug dealers?.....sadly its the same in so many towns

utyh2ikcq9z76b

LuasSimon wrote: »

Drugs are causing many people in Irish society to go from normal middle of the road people to paranoid , aggressive , unstable individuals . There’s a few individuals in every town and village who’s brains are burnt from drug use thanks to moral less drug dealers . No guards , equally moral less free legal aid solicitors , soft judges and no prison space complete the problem .

Statistically alcohol is the most destructive drug but no doubt you don't see a problem with your drinking

nacho libre

LuasSimon wrote: »

People try to say Drugs are ok but here we are with someone High as a Kite killing a guard......who sold this individual drugs?....What local free legal aid solicitor protects local drug dealers?.....sadly its the same in so many towns

I'm not an advocate for illegal drug use, but this is a bit of hyperbole, the reality is many people from all different professions use drugs in this country and don't engage in violent behaviour. If your point is these people are helping to fund organised crime through their choices, then I agree.

Gooey Looey

LuasSimon wrote: »

Drugs are causing many people in Irish society to go from normal middle of the road people to paranoid , aggressive , unstable individuals . There’s a few individuals in every town and village who’s brains are burnt from drug use thanks to moral less drug dealers . No guards , equally moral less free legal aid solicitors , soft judges and no prison space complete the problem .

You agree to close the off licenses and pubs also because alcohol is the drug does the most damage in this country

LuasSimon

I wonder what local ex TD and MEP Ming Flanagan thinks of all this ? ... isn’t he always in about making drugs legal

LuasSimon

Tanner Creamy Theatre wrote: »

Statistically alcohol is the most destructive drug but no doubt you don't see a problem with your drinking

I don’t drink so your wrong there but in recent years I have seen far more people fcuk up their lives with cocaine or hash than alcohol . To be honest from what I see there’s less and less people drinking and sadly more and more burning their brains out with drugs .

BattleCorp

I haven't read the entire thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned but has anyone seen Gemma O'Doherty's tweet on the shooting?

To quote "They shall reap what they sow". :mad::mad::mad:

I am not saying this lightly...........what a cnut of a woman. :mad::mad::mad:

TheCitizen

LuasSimon wrote: »

I wonder what local ex TD and MEP Ming Flanagan thinks of all this ? ... isn’t he always in about making drugs legal

He argues that making some drugs legal makes those drugs safer for users and takes the profits away from criminals. This incident in Castlerea doesn't in any way undermine that argument.

na1

LuasSimon wrote: »

People try to say Drugs are ok but here we are with someone High as a Kite killing a guard......who sold this individual drugs?....What local free legal aid solicitor protects local drug dealers?.....sadly its the same in so many towns

I would vote for death penalty life sentence for heavy drugs dealers.
You wouldn't see many drug addicts on the streets of Singapore

Tacitus Kilgore

na1 wrote: »

I would vote for death penalty life sentence for heavy drugs dealers.
You wouldn't see many drug addicts on the streets of Singapore

Which drugs though?

LuasSimon

LuasSimon wrote: »

I don’t drink so your wrong there but in recent years I have seen far more people fcuk up their lives with cocaine or hash than alcohol . To be honest from what I see there’s less and less people drinking and sadly more and more burning their brains out with drugs .

You are seeing a very unusual sight then.

Alcohol is far more dangerous.

rossie1977

walshb wrote: »

More nonsense arguing...

You are not reading what I am writing, or are and cannot interpret its simplicity

Simple: Society today are excusing so much bad behaviors as being due to persons suffering with mental health issues......whether that be serious psychiatric disorders or whatever....

Just look at the amount of postings the minute someone does anything heinous....it's straight to the: "ah, sure he must have been suffering with mental health."

Define society.

If society as a whole thought that then nobody would be sent to prison.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Reading an article from the mirror online that says there were Gardai in Castlerea Garda station 5 minutes walk away who heard the shots and were obviously quick on the scene. If there was Gardai in the station 5 minutes away, why was the detective on his own in this situation? Why bring a gun into an incident like that when the assailant is unarmed? If they need to arrest him outnumber him and use taser guns or whatever.

I’m no expert and obviously it’s no help to the unfortunate Garda in this incident but I’d imagine they’ll be reviewing their procedures after this.

There is a fairly large garda station 5 minutes walk away yes which does beg the question. There will have been at least half a dozen Gardaí on the job even at 12am

walshb

rossie1977 wrote: »

Define society.

If society as a whole thought that then nobody would be sent to prison.



There is a fairly large garda station 5 minutes walk away yes which does beg the question. There will have been at least half a dozen Gardaí on the job even at 12am

I just mean it seems very prevalent in society the rush to label so many heinous acts as being acts committed by people with mental health issues/conditions; almost the rush to assume it, and not to consider that people are bad, as well as good...

rossie1977

walshb wrote: »

I just mean it seems very prevalent in society the rush to label so many heinous acts as being acts committed by people with mental health issues/conditions; almost the rush to assume it, and not to consider that people are bad, as well as good...

Maybe but in this situation it's warranted.

I have spoken about the mental health epidemic in the area on this forum previously. I know one particular individual who is extremely disturbed with ungodly strength prone to fits of violent rage walking the streets of the town.

na1

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Which drugs though?

heavy drugs like: cocaine, heroine etc, which do severe mental damage.

Spanish Eyes

There may be a plea of guilty by reason of insanity here. Therefore he could be sent to the CMH indefinitely, not a prison per se.