Detective Garda Colm Horkan killed in Castlerea, Roscommon - [MOD WARNING POST #1]

TheCitizen

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Most of them don't work alone, detectives can work alone but that will probably change after this.
The investigation may recommend it, the purpose of this investigation is not primarily to find fault with what the guard did but to recommend change in procedures.

I'd imagine that will change after this.

Witcher

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yes I know. What I'm saying is Gardai should not be patrolling alone, and in this instance there were Gardai in a station 5 minutes walk away. He should not have been doing that patrol alone.

Uniformed members...who have their own work to do, the regular isn't there to facilitate DDU or vice versa. They're seperate areas.

TheCitizen

Gatling wrote: »

I am for real and if it doesn't save lives why arm any guards at all then ,

Why are detectives and other units armed then ?

I don't think you are, have you learned nothing about how damaging gun culture is in the US for example.

You need armed units for certain situations. For tackling hardened criminals who have weapons for example.

You don't need guns for most situations, and you don't need guns for regular cops.

That incident in Castlerea wouldn't have happened if the detective had another Guard with him and if he had no gun on him that the assailant could get his hands on.

Truthvader

Gatling wrote: »

It a suggestion that would save lives ,but they way things work here whenever a scumbag happens to get shot by a serving guard we have to have internal investigations , public inquiries and civil action against the guards ,

Where in America it's considered part and parcel of being a law enforcement officer

As I posted here way back, there is a big difference between "The Police" and the Gaurds. I suggest you watch "Inside the K" and marvel at the sheer calm professionalism an Irish Guard routinely employs even in the most tense and trying circumstances.

Now imagine an armed "American" solution to the same situations. No empathy just a numb "thug" approach to the same host of problems. Many of the sumbags will be dead, some of the Guards will be dead.

Without the gun everyone gets a second and a third and a fourth chance. And the odd scumabg grows up and gets out of it

TheCitizen

Witcher wrote: »

Uniformed members...who have their own work to do, the regular isn't there to facilitate DDU or vice versa. They're seperate areas.

You've got plenty of questions but no solutions. Do you think detective Gardai should patrol alone? If it's the case there aren't enough detective Gardai to go around in pairs, then a uniformed Guard who wants to be promoted would surely be useful to support a detective.

They will change their operations due to this incident in Castlerea which could probably have been avoided if the detective wasn't alone.

Gatling

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don't think you are, have you learned nothing about how damaging gun culture is in the US for example.



That incident in Castlerea wouldn't have happened if the detective had another Guard with him and if he had no gun on him that the assailant could get his hands on.

American gun cluture has no bearing on this ,
The assilant could have easily enough killed the guard with his hands ,a knife or other object ,were only lucky it was one detective killed ,the attacker had the ability to kill several guards .

Again it he a standoff weapon and actual back up with him it would have being a different scenario.

walshb

Have RTE released name of man arrested yet?

Gatling

walshb wrote: »

Has RTE released name of man arrested yet?

Not on there website no ,the UK media have named him publicly

Witcher

TheCitizen wrote: »

You've got plenty of questions but no solutions. Do you think detective Gardai should patrol alone? If it's the case there aren't enough detective Gardai to go around in pairs, then a uniformed Guard who wants to be promoted would surely be useful to support a detective.

They will change their operations due to this incident in Castlerea which could probably have been avoided if the detective wasn't alone.

I didn't say they should patrol alone, I said uniformed members can't be diverted to fill in, there's little enough guards for the Regular without diverting some to DDU.

It's not as simple as 'take a uniformed member' I'm sure it seems that simple to you but it's not.

walshb

Yes. Just listened to RTEnews now. No name given..

Why age they did slow here? It was in the Sun paper earlier today..

TheCitizen

Witcher wrote: »

I didn't say they should patrol alone, I said uniformed members can't be diverted to fill in, there's little enough guards for the Regular without diverting some to DDU.

It's not as simple as 'take a uniformed member' I'm sure it seems that simple to you but it's not.

I didn't say it was simple did I?

However they'll need to do whatever is required to ensure that Gardai are not patrolling alone from here on. They should do.

Millionaire only not

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don't think you are, have you learned nothing about how damaging gun culture is in the US for example.

You need armed units for certain situations. For tackling hardened criminals who have weapons for example.

You don't need guns for most situations, and you don't need guns for regular cops.

That incident in Castlerea wouldn't have happened if the detective had another Guard with him and if he had no gun on him that the assailant could get his hands on.

Agree with u , that man had no business with a gun in Castlerea last night . U would imagine there only used for hostile situations and certainly not on ones own .
Did I hear it mentioned he was only a detective with 3 weeks !
Not taken from what was done him was totally out of the question .

Witcher

TheCitizen wrote: »

I didn't say it was simple did I?

However they'll need to do whatever is required to ensure that Gardai are not patrolling alone from here on. They should do.

Right, well we'll leave that to people with experience in the area.

I don't think the great unwashed of Boards.ie are going to solve staffing and operational issues within An Garda Síochána.

shaveAbullock

Irish media will release the name of the suspect when he is officially charged.
I believe he is still being interrogated.
I think there will be respect shown for the dead guards family and very little speculation from the media with with info not published until it is conformed fact from an official source.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

They will change their operations due to this incident in Castlerea which could probably have been avoided if the detective wasn't alone.

No they won't.
There are not enough Gardai in the country.
Numbers would have to double & there's no way that will happen and a recession starting.
Many guards in this country have to work alone, sometimes they even have to use their own cars because there is not official vehicles for them.

Oh & just FYI, uniform guards & detective guards are the same rank. A promotion for a guard is to sergeant.

TheCitizen

Witcher wrote: »

Right, well we'll leave that to people with experience in the area.

I don't think the great unwashed of Boards.ie are going to solve staffing and operational issues within An Garda Síochána.

Did anyone say they would?

I think it's fairly clear that the people with experience in the area need to improve safety conditions for their workers.

Witcher

TheCitizen wrote: »

Did anyone say they would?

I think it's fairly clear that the people with experience in the area need to improve safety conditions for their workers.

You're very belligerent, you need to chill out lad.

shaveAbullock

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Agree with u , that man had no business with a gun in Castlerea last night . U would imagine there only used for hostile situations and certainly not on ones own .

Because of the type of work plain clothes detectives do they are expected to have their pistol on them at all times.
They can't keep going back to the station to put it away every time they have to help out with what seems like a minor incident.

There will be an investigation into what when wrong and recommendations on what to do going forward.

Gatling

Witcher wrote: »

You're very belligerent, you need to chill out lad.

Seems to be on a wind up

TheCitizen

bubblypop wrote: »

No they won't.
There are not enough Gardai in the country.
Numbers would have to double & there's no way that will happen and a recession starting.
Many guards in this country have to work alone, sometimes they even have to use their own cars because there is not official vehicles for them.

Oh & just FYI, uniform guards & detective guards are the same rank. A promotion for a guard is to sergeant.

They would have to double in numbers? Nah, not buying that. Everytime I come across a Garda checkpoint for tax and insurance etc there's two or more Guards manning it, but it's impossible to have two Guards at a patrol for more serious issues? It can be achieved with the numbers they have I reckon.

TheCitizen

Witcher wrote: »

You're very belligerent, you need to chill out lad.

:pac: Aithníonn ciaróg coaróg eile

Witcher

Witcher wrote: »

Give him the cash and wait for his reaction, if he goes for you well then the choice has been made for you. But to hold onto the cash and struggle with him for it is ****ing stupid.

In the former you're defending your life, in the latter your cash.

It's mine, not his. I work for it, it puts food on the table for my family.

Doesn't matter if you think it's sensible, I have the right to defend my property.

TheCitizen

Gatling wrote: »

Seems to be on a wind up

I'm for real mate, I don't think you are though.

"Let's bring more guns into the situation" is your solution. Mad stuff.

Witcher

TheCitizen wrote: »

They would not have to double in numbers? Nah, not buying that. Everytime I come across a Garda checkpoint for tax and insurance etc there's two or more Guards manning it, but it's impossible to have two Guards at a patrol for more serious issues? It can be achieved with the numbers they have I reckon.

You reckon eh?

Well if you reckon it then it must be true.

Fcck me...there's days I've seen 4 lads on a unit, one to run the station, one to be the gaoler for prisoners in the cells and two lads for the car crew...and that's in the DMR. It's grand though...TheCitizen reckons numbers can be stretched further.

Atlantic Dawn

Named here...

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/detective-garda-colm-horkan-murder-18450858

Witcher

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It's mine, not his. I work for it, it puts food on the table for my family.

Doesn't matter if you think it's sensible, I have the right to defend my property.

As I said to another poster, if it was your child would you tell them to hand it over or fight for it and risk getting stabbed?

I know you're a mule aswell Niner...hope you're not giving that advice out:pac::pac:;)

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

You've got plenty of questions but no solutions. Do you think detective Gardai should patrol alone? If it's the case there aren't enough detective Gardai to go around in pairs, then a uniformed Guard who wants to be promoted would surely be useful to support a detective.

They will change their operations due to this incident in Castlerea which could probably have been avoided if the detective wasn't alone.

Your very clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about. Considering the subject of this thread, maybe pipe down and accept the direct information being provided By actual serving Gardai.

Most stations in this country only have 1 detective on duty at any given time. They may only have 1 uniform patrol car working. Taking a uniform to go with the detective means no response car.

That hasn't changed after any of the other deaths because numbers don't allow it.

Just to put it in comparison, 15000 Gardai for the republic of Ireland with a population of 5 million. Nypd, 50,000. Met 30,000, Hungarian national police 40,000.

Or here's one very easily compared: Spain, ten times the population and size of Ireland (approx) but has 15 times the police (200,000)

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

They would have to double in numbers? Nah, not buying that. Everytime I come across a Garda checkpoint for tax and insurance etc there's two or more Guards manning it, but it's impossible to have two Guards at a patrol for more serious issues? It can be achieved with the numbers they have I reckon.

Don't buy it, but you clearly have no idea how little gardai there are in the country.

TheCitizen

Witcher wrote: »

You reckon eh?

Well if you reckon it then it must be true.

Fcck me...there's days I've seen 4 lads on a unit, one to run the station, one to be the gaoler for prisoners in the cells and two lads for the car crew...and that's in the DMR. It's grand though...TheCitizen reckons numbers can be stretched further.

And you're accusing me of being belligerent? Are you a Guard, how come you're such an expert on this?

You ignored the point I made re whenever there's checkpoints for drink driving or car tax etc., you never ever see the checkpoint manned by a Guard on his/her own. So why would a patrol for a more serious situation have only one Guard? They'll change it.

expectationlost

Ming Flanagan found bullets on roselawn drive quite some distance from the junction of main street patrick street https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/luke-ming-flanagan-reveals-sadness-at-surreal-discovery-of-bullets-linked-to-colm-horkan-shooting-1006351.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter