Detective Garda Colm Horkan killed in Castlerea, Roscommon - [MOD WARNING POST #1]

perfectkama

weldoninhio wrote: »

There are a finite amount of criminals in Ireland. Longer sentences means less scum on the street. Means less crime. Or do you believe that for every scummer locked up, another one appears??

We don't have prison space that why so many re offenders are on bail

crime is generally centered around families who the state ran out of resources to help and maybe patience probably 2% of the pop.
prisons cost money its not fair to future innocent victims we assume or even care if they survive just like this guard RIP

joe40

bloodless_coup wrote: »

What are you ranting on about, I wasn't making any political statement or claiming the Garda felt anything one way or the other.

Oh and if you want to get up on a high horse and try to berate me for using "his memory or this tragedy to further your own political views" then it's not a good idea to follow up with your own political point scoring anti police rant.

How am anti police, I said I was fully supportive of the Gardai.

I was talking about people equating this tragedy with American policing issues, or BLM or whatever.
Plenty of people are at it.

mike_ie

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: Finding it hard to see how this is on topic, and not dragging the thread off in an unnecessary direction.

There is no respect for the Gardai from lots of sections of this countrys political and activist groups especially.
Do you think groups that encourages attacks on police forces makes the lives of our Gardai safer or their jobs easier ?

Any police person that risks drawing there weapon to defend themselves is at the mercy of attack by these groups and at risk of murder and assault charges. It has to be having an affect on the ability of the forces to execute their job safely.

These groups and their mouthpieces have a lot to answer for. I salute any person still willing to join a police force where nobody has their back anymore.

Can you imagine the protests from that group today and those online if the attacker was the person killed by the Gardai to save his own life.

thejaguar

Joe Columbo wrote: »

"We" didn't do anything.It's the person who done this is to blame nobody else.


Collective guilt is a load of pseudo intellectual nonsense but of course some people just want anything to absolve people from responsibility so they blame society for individuals acting out.



You do harm to another person and it's your fault and no-one else is to blame.

Nermal wrote: »

It is only due to failings of the individual that prison is needed at all. Blaming the functioning (or malfunctioning) of prison on 'society' is simply an attempt to absolve individuals of proper responsibility for their own actions.

Actually "society" taking responsibility for the people who are part of it seems perfectly sensible to me. Individuals are responsible for their own actions - but we are all responsible for the circumstances that lead to those actions.

Suggesting that criminals are solely responsible and should be locked up is a way of absolving yourself of your own responsibility to society. You're just asking someone else to deal with the problem for you.

Jackman25

joe40 wrote: »

America has tough sentences, mass incarceration, all the things you're looking for, are you seriously suggesting we copy that model.

It's not solving law and order issues in the US, why would it work here?

What would the crime rate be without tough sentences in America or what would it be if they took a different approach to sentencing?

kowloonkev

perfectkama wrote: »

We don't have prison space that why so many re offenders are on bail

crime is generally centered around families who the state ran out of resources to help and maybe patience probably 2% of the pop.
prisons cost money its not fair to future innocent victims we assume or even care if they survive just like this guard RIP

yeah well the country has been spending a fortune trying to make every tiny minority happy and running stupid referendum campaigns costing fortunes. they've invested nearly a million euro to campaign for a seat on some stupid international council, to what end? they're building the most expensive corrupt hospital known to man.

meanwhile the justice system is a completely forgotten about shambles.

Yurt2

Jackman25 wrote: »

What would the crime rate be without tough sentences in America or what would it be if they took a different approach to sentencing?

Likely a hell of a lot less. American prisons are breeding grounds for addiction and gangs. The first thing you do on the inside is to align with a gang to survive.

You literally couldn't concoct a worse formula for recidivism if you tried.

tonysopprano

kildare lad wrote: »

That's waffle , read the paper and you'll see that it's not true , if that was the case you'd have no walking round with dozens of convictions

Blame the judges for that . Read Criminal Justice Act 1984

quokula

Yurt! wrote: »

Likely a hell of a lot less. American prisons are breeding grounds for addiction and gangs. The first thing you do on the inside is to align with a gang to survive.

You literally couldn't concoct a worse formula for recidivism if you tried.

Very true, and it's not even like they aren't aware of it over there. The thing is that their politicians have realised that being seen to be tough on crime wins more votes than actually reducing crime (just look at this thread), and on top of that you have the issue of private prisons who profit from more prisoners lobbying for mass incarceration to exacerbate the problem further. I'd hate to see Ireland start going down that road.

Joe Columbo

thejaguar wrote: »

Actually "society" taking responsibility for the people who are part of it seems perfectly sensible to me. Individuals are responsible for their own actions - but we are all responsible for the circumstances that lead to those actions.

Suggesting that criminals are solely responsible and should be locked up is a way of absolving yourself of your own responsibility to society. You're just asking someone else to deal with the problem for you.

This country is a utopia compared to most other countries around the world you have every opportunity to make a decent life for yourself here and if people don't take advantage of it and decide to become criminals then its their own fault.The only people you can really put responsibility in for anyone turning out to be a scumbag is their parents.

UrbanFret

Terrible tragedy for the Family involved. What bothers me is how on earth an armed detective lets someone disarm him and turn the weapon on him. If as has been reported he was on his own then he should have taken his assailant down and **** the inevitable protests that Follow.

Strumms

begbysback wrote: »

Maybe my post is not clear, or maybe people are just seeing what they want to see, I don’t know, I never said I, or we, are responsible for people’s actions.

What we are responsible for is “change”, and to acknowledge if a function of society is not working.

Not going to be a whole lot of comfort to the dead Garda’s poor family.

Incidentally what could WE change that would have prevented this murder ?

bloodless_coup

UrbanFret wrote: »

Terrible tragedy for the Family involved. What bothers me is how on earth an armed detective lets someone disarm him and turn the weapon on him. If as has been reported he was on his own then he should have taken his assailant down and **** the inevitable protests that Follow.

Protests only inevitable if the perp was black.

afro man

NIMAN wrote: »

Murder of a guard should mean life in jail, you're never getting out.

May this poor man RIP, so sad for his family, to go to work and not come home.

Murder of anybody should mean life in jail

joe40

kowloonkev wrote: »

yeah well the country has been spending a fortune trying to make every tiny minority happy and running stupid referendum campaigns costing fortunes. they've invested nearly a million euro to campaign for a seat on some stupid international council, to what end? they're building the most expensive corrupt hospital known to man.

meanwhile the justice system is a completely forgotten about shambles.

What stupid referendum campaigns are you talking about.

Canada spent much more than us looking for the same seat. Canadians aren't idiots, it must mean something.

begbysback

quokula wrote: »

Very true, and it's not even like they aren't aware of it over there. The thing is that their politicians have realised that being seen to be tough on crime wins more votes than actually reducing crime (just look at this thread), and on top of that you have the issue of private prisons who profit from more prisoners lobbying for mass incarceration to exacerbate the problem further. I'd hate to see Ireland start going down that road.

Oh we are firmly on that road already, Irish prisons have started to assign sections of prisons to gangs, with regards to having to align to one it seems we are not quite there yet.

Spon Farmer

Joe Columbo wrote: »

This country is a utopia compared to most other countries around the world you have every opportunity to make a decent life for yourself here and if people don't take advantage of it and decide to become criminals then its their own fault.The only people you can really put responsibility in for anyone turning out to be a scumbag is their parents.

That is not always the case.

I have a cousin who is a criminal and addict and only she is to blame. My aunt and uncle nearly went to an early grave trying to keep her on the straight and narrow.

She had two children over the years who are doing just fine and are productive members of society which is down to my aunt and uncle and their own desire be good.

nacho libre

UrbanFret wrote: »

Terrible tragedy for the Family involved. What bothers me is how on earth an armed detective lets someone disarm him and turn the weapon on him. If as has been reported he was on his own then he should have taken his assailant down and **** the inevitable protests that Follow.

It's not a question of him letting the suspect do it. He was taken by surprise.
Also sometimes people are physically stronger than others and can over power them. From what I remember of the suspect he is a physically strong man.

Joe Columbo

Spon Farmer wrote: »

That is not always the case.

I have a cousin who is a criminal and addict and only she is to blame. My aunt and uncle nearly went to an early grave trying to keep her on the straight and narrow.

She had two children over the years who are doing just fine and are productive members of society which is down to my aunt and uncle and their own desire be good.

Agree I was just saying that in addition to the person themselves the only other person you can legitimately blame are the parents, but as you say sometimes even good parents aren't enough.

Tokyo

bloodless_coup wrote: »

Protests only inevitable if the perp was black.

Mod: In case my last post was too vague, quit it with the whataboutery. If you want to discuss the BLM movement or the recent deaths of civilians at the hands of the police, there are threads for that already. This situation wasn't a race issue - stop trying to shoehorn it into the conversation.

hetuzozaho

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I haven't seen the phones that have fingerprint scanners.

I was thinking about the reliability.

How often has your phone not recognised your finger print on a first attempt? Or has I always worked?

No idea on stats but it has not always worked on my phone. Reading articles though in the gun it's dozens of sensors working together so would increase reliability over a phone. The technology will get there I'd imagine.

A loose gun just makes a situation life or death all of a sudden.

begbysback

Strumms wrote: »

Not going to be a whole lot of comfort to the dead Garda’s poor family.

Incidentally what could WE change that would have prevented this murder ?

You are missing the context, I was giving reasoning for my earlier post where somebody suggested harsher sentences as a solution for such crimes, and I challenged it with reasons why that solution wouldn’t work.

If you read back you will see that I clearly stated such incidents will always occur, though thankfully are rare. Nothing we can do will prevent such an incident from ever occurring again. And that people using this incident to propose harsher sentences were being somewhat opportunistic, and irrational.

rossie1977

It is almost 40 years to to the day that John Morley and Henry Byrne based in Castlerea were shot dead just outside the town by the IRA. The town has a tragic history unfortunately https://www.garda.ie/en/About-Us/Our-History/Roll-of-Honour/Roll-of-Honour-description/Morley-John-F-.html

walshb

Colm Horkan....had he wife and children?

Very sad...

Infernal Racket

Look at what this crazy bitch has to say about it

walshb

Infernal Racket wrote: »

Look at what this crazy bitch has to say about it

What an absolute toerag.....

She is an enemy of the state, and this attack should not go unchallenged.

Free speech my arse....that is an attack on the very people of the state that are serving us, and protecting us...

begbysback

That screenshot is kind of out of context so it could be referring to anything, so the benefit of the doubt has to be given.

Having said that, if it does refer to this incident, then I’d have serious concerns for her mental health.

tigger123

Infernal Racket wrote: »

Look at what this crazy bitch has to say about it

She needs to be ignored at this stage. Who the f*ck takes her seriously. She's batsh*t.

TheCitizen

begbysback wrote: »

The RTÉ article above seems more like he stumbled across an incident/domestic, though its not clear. Earlier reports seemed to indicate he was dispatched, though they weren’t clear either.

Would a Guard (Detective or not) normally be carrying a gun in a call out like that? If there was no gun at the scene he'd be alive. Sad and what appears to be a random incident. RIP.

walshb

tigger123 wrote: »

She needs to be ignored at this stage. Who the f*ck takes her seriously. She's batsh*t.

I don't think she needs to be ignored. She needs to be seriously challenged....

Her speech, in my view is of hate and anarchy and promotion of sedition and anything else....

I don't know her position in society....is she a public rep? If so, she needs to be removed.