External sounders and the behaviour of alarms in the event of power cuts

johnjoeclock

So I will start this with some information and then some questions.

Alarm: HKC 610
Bell box: unsure but something using a 4 core wire that has a strobe
Backup battery: recently replaced

In the event of a power cut the backup battery in the control panel box should keep the system running to the extent that once power is restored no alarm will have been triggered.

What happens in the event that a backup battery is degraded but still holding some charge? The power goes, the backup battery runs for a while and then a complete power cut happens. How does the external sounder know when to timeout? Does it have its own PCB powered by a battery?

If the battery in the external bell is depleted, and the backup battery in the control panel is depleted, on power restore will the system go into alarm?

Conversely, if the backup battery in the control panel is good but the battery in the external bell box is not, will the alarm sound? My understanding is that in this case it would not as the control panel would be able to communicate its state to the external bell box once power is restored.

Do external sounders respect hold off signals while in engineering mode? If I put my alarm into engineering mode and remove the cover of the bell box will it trigger the tamper?

altor

johnjoeclock wrote: »

So I will start this with some information and then some questions.

Alarm: HKC 610
Bell box: unsure but something using a 4 core wire that has a strobe
Backup battery: recently replaced

In the event of a power cut the backup battery in the control panel box should keep the system running to the extent that once power is restored no alarm will have been triggered.

Correct.

johnjoeclock wrote: »

What happens in the event that a backup battery is degraded but still holding some charge? The power goes, the backup battery runs for a while and then a complete power cut happens. How does the external sounder know when to timeout? Does it have its own PCB powered by a battery?

Yes that is correct. Once mains and battery is removed external bell will activate.

The time of this does depend on the external bell.
some older bells would not have a built in timer so the state of the battery will determine the time.

johnjoeclock wrote: »

If the battery in the external bell is depleted, and the backup battery in the control panel is depleted, on power restore will the system go into alarm?

On the 6/10 yes it will.

johnjoeclock wrote: »

Conversely, if the backup battery in the control panel is good but the battery in the external bell box is not, will the alarm sound? My understanding is that in this case it would not as the control panel would be able to communicate its state to the external bell box once power is restored.

That is correct.

johnjoeclock wrote: »

Do external sounders respect hold off signals while in engineering mode? If I put my alarm into engineering mode and remove the cover of the bell box will it trigger the tamper?

Again depends on the bell.
Most with a tamper will activate even in engineer mode.

johnjoeclock

> some older bells would not have a built in timer so the state of the battery will determine the time.

I think this may be the case with my current external bell which is not what I want. So I either need to confirm or just go about getting it changed out. If I am going the route of changing it out I will most likely be reaching out to professional like yourself.

>On the 6/10 yes it will.

Is there a way to prevent this via engineering menu settings or is it part of the firmware running on the micro controller of the PCB in the control panel box?

>That is correct.

Does this mean then that the backup battery is also connected into the external bell box alongside the bell box having it own dedicated battery? I know this probably varies with bell boxes but whatever the general design is.

> Most with a tamper will activate even in engineer mode.

I see, is there a way for me to prevent the siren in the external bell box from working by changing the connections in the control panel box? .e.g. the tamper signal will still trigger but there will be no blaring siren.

If not does depressing the tamper switch in a bell box silence the alarm even if the user code has not been entered? The reason I am asking is that I have absolutely no idea what type of bell box I have and it is located right beside a neighbours window (apartment) and I would like to avoid annoying them for the sake of me just being able to take the cover off the bell box and take a photo of what its like on the inside and to see if it does indeed have its own battery.

I reckon I will probably be reaching out to you or one of the people listed here to come do a service/possibly just replace the external bell box.

Just so you know the TLS certificate for your website expired today so anyone visiting your website will be prompted by their browser that your website is "Unsecure" I see the certificate is from Lets Encrypt so the process of renewing it should be easy compared to others. If you want help with that reach out to me via PM, it is the industry I work in so considering how much you have helped me I would have no problem helping you out with that.

It looks like you are using a managed service for hosting (cPanel) so it may be straight forward to renew it via the panel, I haven't used cPanel in years.

https://certbot.eff.org/docs/using.html#renewing-certificates
https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/CKB/The+Let%27s+Encrypt+Plugin

altor

johnjoeclock wrote: »

> some older bells would not have a built in timer so the state of the battery will determine the time.

I think this may be the case with my current external bell which is not what I want. So I either need to confirm or just go about getting it changed out. If I am going the route of changing it out I will most likely be reaching out to professional like yourself.

>On the 6/10 yes it will.

Is there a way to prevent this via engineering menu settings or is it part of the firmware running on the micro controller of the PCB in the control panel box?

>That is correct.

Does this mean then that the backup battery is also connected into the external bell box alongside the bell box having it own dedicated battery? I know this probably varies with bell boxes but whatever the general design is.

> Most with a tamper will activate even in engineer mode.

I see, is there a way for me to prevent the siren in the external bell box from working by changing the connections in the control panel box? .e.g. the tamper signal will still trigger but there will be no blaring siren.

If not does depressing the tamper switch in a bell box silence the alarm even if the user code has not been entered? The reason I am asking is that I have absolutely no idea what type of bell box I have and it is located right beside a neighbours window (apartment) and I would like to avoid annoying them for the sake of me just being able to take the cover off the bell box and take a photo of what its like on the inside and to see if it does indeed have its own battery.

I reckon I will probably be reaching out to you or one of the people listed here to come do a service/possibly just replace the external bell box.

Just so you know the TLS certificate for your website expired today so anyone visiting your website will be prompted by their browser that your website is "Unsecure" I see the certificate is from Lets Encrypt so the process of renewing it should be easy compared to others. If you want help with that reach out to me via PM, it is the industry I work in so considering how much you have helped me I would have no problem helping you out with that.

It looks like you are using a managed service for hosting (cPanel) so it may be straight forward to renew it via the panel, I haven't used cPanel in years.

https://certbot.eff.org/docs/using.html#renewing-certificates
https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/CKB/The+Let%27s+Encrypt+Plugin

The external bell is designed that if someone tampers with it then it will activate. Same with if your system is down powered or it is been sabotaged.
I am not going to go into the working of this on a public forum which I hope you understand.

Yes, I seen that and have sorted it today so should be safe for another 3 months

johnjoeclock

> I am not going to go into the working of this on a public forum which I hope you understand.

Yeah that is understandable.

> Yes, I seen that and have sorted it today so should be safe for another 3 months

I remember when renewing a TLS cert was a major pain in the ass, it is nice to see the process so streamlined these days.

Do you mind me sending you on a photo of the current external bell box via Whatsapp on Monday? I would rather have you work on it than me attempt to end up botching it. Or would you rather I call your number on Monday to discuss if you are available to work on it?

It's about 8ft off the ground so it shouldn't be too hardcore.

altor

johnjoeclock wrote: »

> I am not going to go into the working of this on a public forum which I hope you understand.

Yeah that is understandable.

> Yes, I seen that and have sorted it today so should be safe for another 3 months

I remember when renewing a TLS cert was a major pain in the ass, it is nice to see the process so streamlined these days.

Do you mind me sending you on a photo of the current external bell box via Whatsapp on Monday? I would rather have you work on it than me attempt to end up botching it. Or would you rather I call your number on Monday to discuss if you are available to work on it?

It's about 8ft off the ground so it shouldn't be too hardcore.

Its a simple add of the new cert which is great.
I dont use the site for much anyway but its handy to have it online.

Im more than happy to help you install a new bell if you need me to show you the connections that is no problem at all.