Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

faceman

Anyone arriving from a category 2 country has no incentive to get a PCR test before travel given they’ve to do quarantine anyway.

Given the lack of indirect flights this is all going to result in what happened in China last summer

faceman

ninebeanrows wrote: »

It appears to be related to variants of concern rather than case numbers so even more vague

The inclusion of Austria being so bizarre, they had some SA variants about 2 months ago around Tyrol but were stamped out , they’ve had no more variants of concern than the U.K. for example

It’s a metric less mess and I’d be surprised if they have anybody in those hotels apart from a few Brazilian or South Africans who get caught out and have passport stamped etc but most have dual passports so will just not use the one stamped departing or heir origin

Mauritius is on the list purely because it’s a copy and paste from the U.K. list. Mauritius is on the U.K. list over a territory dispute in retaliation for not backing down to the brits. At the time of the list’s preparation, there had only been 23 cases in Mauritius over a 6 week period.

cnbyz

Turkish airlines flights are still full with people who travel for hair transplant and nose / boob jobs . Would that be an essential reason then ?

smurfjed

No direct flights between Ireland and Oman, Qatar and Somalia

Qatar airways operate DOHA DUBLIN.

eeepaulo

Given that only a couple of the 33 countries have direct flights to ireland do we have anyway to check where the passenger originated?

normanoffside

Any flights from Austria will just be cancelled and people will fly from Germany, Czech Republic or Slovakia. I'd imagine these quarantine hotels will be empty and the Government have probably guaranteed them a certain amount of revenue so the tax payer will foot the bill.

SEPT 23 1989

Gardai don't have any power to arrest someone who wont agree to go to the hotel?

eeepaulo

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Gardai don't have any power to arrest someone who wont agree to go to the hotel?

Donnelly said they do on the radio today, it will be an offense, but he said that was an operational decision for them, i'd imagine they wont want to, just take them back

edit-

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/a6975-mandatory-hotel-quarantine/

What happens if you leave mandatory hotel quarantine before completing the 10- or 14-day period
If you do not fulfil the legal requirement for mandatory hotel quarantine, you are committing an offence and can be fined up to €2,000 or get a prison sentence of up to 1 month, or both.

The Irish Police service, An Garda Síochána, will enforce any non-compliance issues.

JacksonHeightsOwn

cnbyz wrote: »

Turkish airlines flights are still full with people who travel for hair transplant and nose / boob jobs . Would that be an essential reason then ?

Only if they're going from an A cup to DD, if not, they're wasting their time

SEPT 23 1989

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Gardai don't have any power to arrest someone who wont agree to go to the hotel?

eeepaulo wrote: »

Donnelly said they do on the radio today, it will be an offense, but he said that was an operational decision for them, i'd imagine they wont want to, just take them back

edit-

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/a6975-mandatory-hotel-quarantine/

What happens if you leave mandatory hotel quarantine before completing the 10- or 14-day period
If you do not fulfil the legal requirement for mandatory hotel quarantine, you are committing an offence and can be fined up to €2,000 or get a prison sentence of up to 1 month, or both.

The Irish Police service, An Garda Síochána, will enforce any non-compliance issues.

Under normal circumstances, that penalty would not carry a power of arrest. I have to read the new legislation to check but my understanding is that it will be a fine and summons which again leads to the point I made a few days ago, how to you enforce a fine on a tourist that will be long gone before its due payment?

eeepaulo

eeepaulo wrote: »

Given that only a couple of the 33 countries have direct flights to ireland do we have anyway to check where the passenger originated?

Unless you are physically entering a middle country and staying there for 14 days, your travel is from point A to B. Transit has never been included as you dont pass controls

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Under normal circumstances, that penalty would not carry a power of arrest. I have to read the new legislation to check but my understanding is that it will be a fine and summons which again leads to the point I made a few days ago, how to you enforce a fine on a tourist that will be long gone before its due payment?

Do what Cambodia does and require travellers to deposit $5k on arrival. They can get it back when their quarantine is over.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Do what Cambodia does and require travellers to deposit $5k on arrival. They can get it back when their quarantine is over.

Theres lots of ways to resolve the issue but the reality at this moment in time is that tourists can more or less ignore the rules and even Irish residents stand a decent chance of getting away with it because our system is weak and antiquated and without a direct power of arrest, easily bypassed

You make these suggestions as if I or the minister can simple click their fingers and voila, system changed.

cnbyz

why would anybody come into Ireland in winter during a pandemic as a tourist ? i think they should be allowed to stay in the hotel for free. they deserve that.

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Theres lots of ways to resolve the issue but the reality at this moment in time is that tourists can more or less ignore the rules and even Irish residents stand a decent chance of getting away with it because our system is weak and antiquated and without a direct power of arrest, easily bypassed

You make these suggestions as if I or the minister can simple click their fingers and voila, system changed.

It's not voila or nothing. I've been talking about the deposit since last July. Surely that's enough time.
It's 364 days since I first posted advocating mandatory quarantine. Surely that's enough time.

I don't buy the argument that Ireland as a nation is incapable of doing this stuff, so why bother trying. If the argument was personified, it would be diagnosed with depression.

cnbyz

cnbyz wrote: »

why would anybody come into Ireland in winter during a pandemic as a tourist ? i think they should be allowed to stay in the hotel for free. they deserve that.

I think this will probable highlight just how few 'tourists' we actually have visiting.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not voila or nothing. I've been talking about the deposit since last July. Surely that's enough time.
It's 364 days since I first posted advocating mandatory quarantine. Surely that's enough time.

I don't buy the argument that Ireland as a nation is incapable of doing this stuff, so why bother trying. If the argument was personified, it would be diagnosed with depression.

It involves a fundemental change in our legal system. A system we have utilised since the foundation of the state.

Of course it can be done, anything can but its far from straightforward. Just to clarify, Im speaking about HOW we deal with penalties and enforcement, not just enacting one law for one scenario

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It involves a fundemental change in our legal system. A system we have utilised since the foundation of the state.

Of course it can be done, anything can but its far from straightforward. Just to clarify, Im speaking about HOW we deal with penalties and enforcement, not just enacting one law for one scenario

Five thousand euro deposit at check-in direct from airport forfeited if they leave. I'm no legal expert but I can't see how that requires a fundamental change in Irish law. If you make someone sign a document agreeing to it, wouldn't that solve any legal issues?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Five thousand euro deposit at check-in direct from airport forfeited if they leave. I'm no legal expert but I can't see how that requires a fundamental change in Irish law. If you make someone sign a document agreeing to it, wouldn't that solve any legal issues?

Correct, you are not a legal expert.

You cannot force someone to sign a document for starters. You cannot force people to hand over a deposit. You cannot just determine that said money is forfeit. All three aspects of your suggestion are not possible in Ireland

I dont want to get bogged down in the common law system here, its boring and long but what you suggest is against the system currently in place. Its also off topic

Can we just agree that while your suggestion makes absolute sense and Im not disputing that, its not feasible without significant changes?

suicide_circus

Austria's 7 day cases per 100k: 248

Poland' 7 day cases per 100k: 418

Why is Austria on the list and Poland not?

Dempo1

Am I alone in thinking this Mandatory Hotel Quarantine idea is full of holes. Just watched the typical cringe worthy RTE news mock up on how it's allegedly going to work, I actual thought it was a comedy scetch.

First obvious concern is passengers actually declaring, its by all accounts voluntary, who in their right mind volunteers to pay €2k to stay in what is essentially a travel lodge.

The list of countries listed are obscure, few don't even have direct flights.

What if passengers refuse, can't pay, who's paying deportation costs.

Are said hotels closed to other business? If not they should be, who's monitoring that and who's paying for potential lost revenue? This is supposed to be cost neutral. I know the hotel trade and they are not in the slightest bit capable of managing this type of program.

Let's assume numbers are low, hotels suddenly realise they are loosing money ( and they will), is this going to be another tax payer bail out.

Why was the contract given to a company that's actual for sale, seems extraordinary?

The army are overseeing this, who came up with that bright idea, they've zero law enforcement capability or indeed permissions. Who's paying predictable over time bills. The Gardai pretty much seem to be wiping their hands on this nonsensical idea.

I could go on but this is a train wreck waiting to happen. I can not fathom why all unnecessary incoming travel was stopped, a simple communication to designated countries and airlines would seem a lot more cost effective and easily twigged for updates etc than this absolute charade.

fm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Austria's 7 day cases per 100k: 248

Poland' 7 day cases per 100k: 418

Why is Austria on the list and Poland not?

I think there was an outbreak in one area of the south African variant about a month ago

suicide_circus

fm wrote: »

I think there was an outbreak in one area of the south African variant about a month ago

Ah right. Presumably the SA variant is present in all it's neighbours by now though.

scouserstation

Dempo1 wrote: »

Am I alone in thinking this Mandatory Hotel Quarantine idea is full of holes. Just watched the typical cringe worthy RTE news mock up on how it's allegedly going to work, I actual thought it was a comedy scetch.

First obvious concern is passengers actually declaring, its by all accounts voluntary, who in their right mind volunteers to pay €2k to stay in what is essentially a travel lodge.

The list of countries listed are obscure, few don't even have direct flights.

What if passengers refuse, can't pay, who's paying deportation costs.

Are said hotels closed to other business? If not they should be, who's monitoring that and who's paying for potential lost revenue? This is supposed to be cost neutral. I know the hotel trade and they are not in the slightest bit capable of managing this type of program.

Let's assume numbers are low, hotels suddenly realise they are loosing money ( and they will), is this going to be another tax payer bail out.

Why was the contract given to a company that's actual for sale, seems extraordinary?

The army are overseeing this, who came up with that bright idea, they've zero law enforcement capability or indeed permissions. Who's paying predictable over time bills. The Gardai pretty much seem to be wiping their hands on this nonsensical idea.

I could go on but this is a train wreck waiting to happen. I can not fathom why all unnecessary incoming travel was stopped, a simple communication to designated countries and airlines would seem a lot more cost effective and easily twigged for updates etc than this absolute charade.

There are so many potholes in this hotel quarantine "Plan" thats its hard to know where to start, the lunatics really have taken over the asylum

Dempo1

scouserstation wrote: »

There are so many potholes in this hotel quarantine "Plan" thats its hard to know where to start, the lunatics really have taken over the asylum

Just seems beggar's belief anyone in government believes this is going to work

votecounts

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1374451342484279301

Surprised there has been so many bookings

suicide_circus

I can see people stuck at home trying to book for a change of scene!

Dempo1

Just cracks me up, the name gov gave this site & the home page, Quarantine Hotels Ireland, I'm sure Failte Ireland cringing .

All that's missing is an image of the grim Reeper holding a money bag

https://www.quarantinehotelsireland.ie/

faceman

Of course the elephant in the room with all this is in a months time and all these disease riddled foreigners bringing their variants ashore alongside their duty free amounts to being sideshow while cases continue to rise domestically

Who can we point the finger of blame at then?

People seem to thing that once the detention centres are up and running that it’s a problem solved

Watch this space

Oh btw, Donnelly confirmed that the state is carrying the cost of the system as there are fixed costs to be paid to the hotels. In other words there’s quotas

Dempo1

faceman wrote: »

Of course the elephant in the room with all this is in a months time and all these disease riddled foreigners bringing their variants ashore alongside their duty free amounts to being sideshow while cases continue to rise domestically

Who can we point the finger of blame at then?

People seem to thing that once the detention centres are up and running that it’s a problem solved

Watch this space

Oh btw, Donnelly confirmed that the state is carrying the cost of the system as there are fixed costs to be paid to the hotels. In other words there’s quotas

Curious, Donnelly said earlier today this charade would be cost neutral and wouldn't cost the state anything, unless I misheard albeit Donnelly quite adept at going around in circle's with his notions