Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Oranage2

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

No EU, USA or UK

Yes, that was my point, the countries on the list effect nothing really.

JP Liz V1

Travel from anywhere should require mandatory testing and hotel quarantine if needed

Man Vs ManUre

Make the quick test 1hr or however quick it can be done part of both departure and arrival process, cost will have to be factored into tkt or airport cost but ultimately passed to the customer. If positive on departure u don’t board, if positive on arrival u go into quarantine and receive a big bill. Sure some positives will still end up getting through due to the incubation period, so maybe travellers need to get an extra test few days before. All very expensive additional costs to flying now. Same for ferry travel and driving across borders.

Away With The Fairies

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Well, they should be prioritized for vaccines. If hotel quarantining is starting this week, all mandatory hotel staff should get their vaccines tomorrow. Who the fück thought of all this?

Before airport staff, transport staff, essential food shopping staff, the military and Gardai? All the people that have been worrying away for the past year so the country could keep ticking?

votecounts wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1374451342484279301

Surprised there has been so many bookings

People traveling from countries where you play ball or get ****ed.

Rodin wrote: »

Tell me how different variants got here...an island.

Shipping of essential medicine and ppe which we don't manufacture locally.

This thread has descended into farce with the same bull**** being repeated and argued over and over again.

Anti travelers like rodin make a silly comment, get called then wait a few days and repeat.

talulon

What else do the anti-travel need? Maybe we should force all incoming people to wear hazmat suits for 2 weeks?

a_squirrelman

So there is still no obligation for covid positive people in Ireland to quarantine right?

makeorbrake

Rodin wrote: »

Of course it makes no sense.
Whole plane should be quarantined.

I decided many months ago not to invest a second of my valuable time into this whole covid nonsense. What I will say is this - if Covid hasn't shown people the ineptitude of governments, then we really deserve them. There are covid variants in the UK and US - then there are variants in Brasil and S.Africa. We decide to ban travel from half of those places but not the ones that the bulk of people travel from. Gov.ie know that there are a large proportion of yanks that would be triggered by such a move - so the decision is political.

In other jurisdictions I've seen governments open flights but keep land borders closed - a measure that has everything to do with inequality. All governments had 6 months to prepare for any form of opening up and only 1% of them were capable of organising antigen testing at dept/entry points - which is what should have happened. Instead we had people scrambling around looking for testing labs, people refused entry because the test at the point of arrival was interpreted as being too stale yet deemed to be valid at the point of departure!

The only take away from all of this...that we are governed by clowns (whether it be IRL or anywhere else - its just a question of how bad they are) that don't have the competence to organise a pissup in a brewery - let alone anything else and whos interests are self serving and not representative of the people they're supposed to serve.
As this measure makes no bloody sense (due to a total lack of consistency), I don't respect it - and I'd sooner go round it if I possibly could.

expectationlost wrote: »

I was replying to the question asked

A number of people including yourself seemed to be confused re. direct flights. My point was that it's not relevant whether there are direct or indirect flights from the countries in question. All of this nonsense ...erm I mean measures....apply either way.
It also serves as a opportunity to demonstrate what a joke this whole thing is. Imagine, that you're on an indirect flight with others who never visited the prescribed countries for a number of hours. And after that, your government decides to quarantine those who originated in those countries and not the others!?

Yapamillias

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

Make the quick test 1hr or however quick it can be done part of both departure and arrival process, cost will have to be factored into tkt or airport cost but ultimately passed to the customer. If positive on departure u don’t board, if positive on arrival u go into quarantine and receive a big bill. Sure some positives will still end up getting through due to the incubation period, so maybe travellers need to get an extra test few days before. All very expensive additional costs to flying now. Same for ferry travel and driving across borders.

The cost a speed of testing is a huge factor for sure. I am in Istanbul now and I am getting my PCR test before flying. 25 euro and results in 5 hours. I paid 99euro for randox and 24 hour turnaround...

I would be in favor of better and cheaper testing requirements pre and post flying than hotel quarantines.

josip

Yapamillias wrote: »

The cost a speed of testing is a huge factor for sure. I am in Istanbul now and I am getting my PCR test before flying. 25 euro and results in 5 hours. I paid 99euro for randox and 24 hour turnaround...

I would be in favor of better and cheaper testing requirements pre and post flying than hotel quarantines.

Yes, this is an example for me of something the govt/HSE could have gotten in place during the past 6 months instead of doing little and just relying on level 5 lockdowns.

expectationlost

makeorbrake wrote: »

I decided many months ago not to invest a second of my valuable time into this whole covid nonsense.

why are you posting on this thread then?

makeorbrake wrote: »

A number of people including yourself seemed to be confused re. direct flights. My point was that it's not relevant whether there are direct or indirect flights from the countries in question. All of this nonsense ...erm I mean measures....apply either way.
It also serves as a opportunity to demonstrate what a joke this whole thing is. Imagine, that you're on an indirect flight with others who never visited the prescribed countries for a number of hours. And after that, your government decides to quarantine those who originated in those countries and not the others!?

people who would have to take a second flight to get here should quarantine at their first destination.

faceman

Rodin wrote: »

What's the argument against quarantining all unnecessary travellers?
We need to drive this virus down at all costs. This will take various strategies. One is to stop importing it.

Decades worth of evidence based research.
Some of which has been shared in this thread. And any research based around covid is in the public domain not behind a paywall.

faceman

a_squirrelman wrote: »

So there is still no obligation for covid positive people in Ireland to quarantine right?

A covid positive person can jump on a bus and go to the shop, pick up a take away coffee and stop in the chemist for some lemsips and return home without fear of penalty

Same goes for a confirmed close contact

faceman

The whole “there are no direct flights to any of the countries on the list [except Austria] is a moot point.

2 reasons

1. The EU shares flight data across all member states. The Irish government has access to this info. It’s been in place for decades.

2. Shengen countries do not permit travel from most, if not all, countries outside the EU. This limits travel options from high risk countries making it easier to identify people transiting from high risk countries through Europe

jimmycrackcorm

Rodin wrote: »

What's the argument against quarantining all unnecessary travellers?
We need to drive this virus down at all costs. This will take various strategies. One is to stop importing it.

Travellers account for a minority of cases. It's a convenient bogeyman for people to focus on. If I want to see how covid spreads, I only have to go round to my local centra and see the crowds of teenagers mixing together with no social distancing and no masks.

expectationlost

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Travellers account for a minority of cases. It's a convenient bogeyman for people to focus on. If I want to see how covid spreads, I only have to go round to my local centra and see the crowds of teenagers mixing together with no social distancing and no masks.

travelers account for the majority of new more transmissible variants from other countries

a_squirrelman

a_squirrelman wrote: »

So there is still no obligation for covid positive people in Ireland to quarantine right?

Well actually there is but its ancient and hasnt been updated. Section 30, Health Act 1947 makes it an offence not to take 'reasonable steps' to prevent the spread when you are infected. The fine is a whopping 65 euro though.

I believe they havent brought in a specific penalty for covid itself as the current regulations state no person should leave their homes unless they need to and theres specific allowances for that.

Would be easier if it was just made a standalone offence but this is Ireland where we now have about 40 Covid 19 amendments to an act from 1947!

expectationlost wrote: »

travelers account for the majority of new more transmissible variants from other countries

and again, travel is essential for so many reasons. You benefit from people travelling every single day. We had **** all PPE and bought in bulk from China, the source of the whole thing ffs!

We would be out of medicine and food if we didnt have transport coming into the country. You reckon we can really live on love?

The infection is here, thats that. It was here before we probable even knew it existed. Accept it, get over it and move on because starving a nation of food, medicine, medical equipment and PPE isnt going to reduce deaths!

Yapamillias

expectationlost wrote: »

travelers account for the majority of new more transmissible variants from other countries

Travelers will account for every single non irish strain coming into the country.

The thing is they will potentially come into the country unless we were to ban ALL travel in and out of the country. That includes every exemption we currently have and all trade and humanitarian.

We can't do that so we have decided (late) to use mandatory quarantining to 'stop' Covid coming in. What will happen is that we will stop Covid from the people on the banned country flights spreading Covid but what about the rest of the people that are exempt from staying in the hotels?

They will go to their homes and we have to trust that they will quarantine themselves. No offense but I don't trust them about as far as I could throw them. Ive previously stated that I am currently traveling now. I would be fine with PCR testing 72 hours before, pre flight, post flight. Id even be fine with mobile tracking apps, ankle, wrist GPS bracelet and enormous fines for breaking home quarantine.

ninebeanrows

faceman wrote: »

The whole “there are no direct flights to any of the countries on the list [except Austria] is a moot point.

2 reasons

1. The EU shares flight data across all member states. The Irish government has access to this info. It’s been in place for decades.

2. Shengen countries do not permit travel from most, if not all, countries outside the EU. This limits travel options from high risk countries making it easier to identify people transiting from high risk countries through Europe

Once I go to Austria for more than 14 days and fly home from not Austria there is definitely no idea where you were for the time in between that.

But im 99% sure even if I fly to Austria on 1 April and return from Munich on 3 April they would have no idea I was in Austria.

They may share flight passenger details but they do not mark your passport when you land in countries. They simpley check for warrants of arrest etc.

expectationlost

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

and again, travel is essential for so many reasons. You benefit from people travelling every single day. We had **** all PPE and bought in bulk from China, the source of the whole thing ffs!

We would be out of medicine and food if we didnt have transport coming into the country. You reckon we can really live on love?

The infection is here, thats that. It was here before we probable even knew it existed. Accept it, get over it and move on because starving a nation of food, medicine, medical equipment and PPE isnt going to reduce deaths!

nobody is suggesting blocking essential products

josip

expectationlost wrote: »

nobody is suggesting blocking essential products

Rodin is.
He only wants unaccompanied HGVs and Dublin Port doesn't have the space to handle that.

ninebeanrows

ninebeanrows wrote: »

They may share flight passenger details but they do not mark your passport when you land in countries. They simpley check for warrants of arrest etc.

They dont need to. All that information is provided prior to even getting to the airport. Be under no illusions, its easily flagged and followed up on. Ireland putting the system and manpower in place to do so is another question.

expectationlost wrote: »

nobody is suggesting blocking essential products

Multiple people have made that very suggestion. They may not mean it fully but they say it. If you stop travel of humans, you stop supplies. Its that simple and frustrating that people cant grasp such a simple idea,

Rodin for example cant seem to grasp the amount of travel that we actually completely need to happen for Rodin to actually live

faceman

ninebeanrows wrote: »

Once I go to Austria for more than 14 days and fly home from not Austria there is definitely no idea where you were for the time in between that.

If you travel to Austria and then stay somewhere else for 14 days then it’s not an issue you were in Austria from Ireland’s perspective.

wrote:

But im 99% sure even if I fly to Austria on 1 April and return from Munich on 3 April they would have no idea I was in Austria.

They may share flight passenger details but they do not mark your passport when you land in countries. They simpley check for warrants of arrest etc.

I can’t offer the proof here but I know for a fact that the authorities can easily find out where you were if you flew commercially. It’s nothing to do with passport stamps.

makeorbrake

expectationlost wrote: »

why are you posting on this thread then?

I'm posting on this thread because I have no choice but to get up to speed with this aspect of this complete shít show - because I have a need to travel to Ireland.

expectationlost wrote: »

people who would have to take a second flight to get here should quarantine at their first destination.

wtf? What first destination? You want people to do a Tom Hanks and live at the airport? The airports implicated in connecting flights don't represent a passengers final destination.

Why can't lorries be shipped without drivers? Can't they just park like normal and get off the ship?

Del Griffith

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why can't lorries be shipped without drivers? Can't they just park like normal and get off the ship?

They call those types of lorries, shipping containers.

Red Silurian

Deleted User wrote: »

Why can't lorries be shipped without drivers? Can't they just park like normal and get off the ship?

Apparently not, Dublin Port isn't set up for this purpose... I'm not exactly sure why not as it's a very sensible measure in my mind

timmyntc

Deleted User wrote: »

Why can't lorries be shipped without drivers? Can't they just park like normal and get off the ship?

Some do, but its massively slower.

Driver on drive off ferries are called "roro" (roll on roll off)
Container only are lolo (lift on lift off)

LOLO ferries for freight are so much slower for overall supply chain. Time taken moving shipping containers from boat to truck on & vice versa is chronic. It will lead to longer shipping times and higher prices if that was all we used.

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

Why can't lorries be shipped without drivers? Can't they just park like normal and get off the ship?

There are some types of RoRo that are driverless and require port tractors (shunters).

You probably couldn't see them in operation in Dublin Port, but years ago you could go easily get to a point in Roslare where you would see them in operation.
https://www.mafi.de/en/products/tractors/

Only the trailer unit is on the ship, each port would have a number of tractor units for unloading these trailers and bringing them to a nearby park.
For this to be realistic logistically, you need a lot of tractor units, drivers and a large amount of nearby space for parking the trailers.
Dublin Port have always said they don't have that capacity.

All that being said, the Celine and Delphine can bring in up to 580 trailers at a time, so there is some capacity there.
But those 580 trailers require 8km of lane space so you can see where some of the constraints are.

timmyntc

timmyntc wrote: »

Some do, but its massively slower.

Driver on drive off ferries are called "roro" (roll on roll off)
Container only are lolo (lift on lift off)

LOLO ferries for freight are so much slower for overall supply chain. Time taken moving shipping containers from boat to truck on & vice versa is chronic. It will lead to longer shipping times and higher prices if that was all we used.

I'm not talking about containers. I'm saying the driver parks the cab and trailer on the ferry as normal, and then gets off. A driver in France gets on the ferry and drives it away.

It can't be that hard to organise it so a driver goes to the terminal in one lorry and leaves in another. Of course it's "hard" but if there are no drivers and the ferries are always full, then that's the same number of drivers needed.

There are posters here questioning how some of us cannot grasp this simple idea that all supply lines are cut if drivers can't travel. Like essential goods and medicines gone. How on Earth can this be, if a cab and trailer can be ferried without the driver?

Red Silurian

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not talking about containers. I'm saying the driver parks the cab and trailer on the ferry as normal, and then gets off. A driver in France gets on the ferry and drives it away.

It can't be that hard to organise it so a driver goes to the terminal in one lorry and leaves in another. Of course it's "hard" but if there are no drivers and the ferries are always full, then that's the same number of drivers needed.

There are posters here questioning how some of us cannot grasp this simple idea that all supply lines are cut if drivers can't travel. Like essential goods and medicines gone. How on Earth can this be, if a cab and trailer can be ferried without the driver?

In this case you would need a deep clean of the cab in between drivers usage to stop the spread via surface touching... It's possible but it's another thing to factor in. In fact everything mentioned by you previously is possible but would just take a bit more effort