Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Well you have an entire 18-hour ferry trip where the cabs could be sprayed down.

Fact is if all of the UK starts to implement mandatory quarantine, our "but Arlene" excuse is gone, and we're going to have to match the UK's efforts because of the border and CTA. "but it's hard" won't cut it.

timmyntc

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not talking about containers. I'm saying the driver parks the cab and trailer on the ferry as normal, and then gets off. A driver in France gets on the ferry and drives it away.

It can't be that hard to organise it so a driver goes to the terminal in one lorry and leaves in another. Of course it's "hard" but if there are no drivers and the ferries are always full, then that's the same number of drivers needed.

There are posters here questioning how some of us cannot grasp this simple idea that all supply lines are cut if drivers can't travel. Like essential goods and medicines gone. How on Earth can this be, if a cab and trailer can be ferried without the driver?

Its just pointless really - the cost of having drivers travel on their own to ferry ports, not to mention the sharing of trucks with drivers who dont work for the company? Or is the haulier going to have to permanently station someone on either side of the channel?

The drawbacks totally outweigh the benefits, its not worth it.
Would you and everyone else in the country be prepared to pay more for food and other imported goods? Because these ideas will only push up prices.

Besides have hauliers really been found as a big source of infection? I doubt it.

timmyntc

timmyntc wrote: »

Its just pointless really - the cost of having drivers travel on their own to ferry ports, not to mention the sharing of trucks with drivers who dont work for the company? Or is the haulier going to have to permanently station someone on either side of the channel?

The drawbacks totally outweigh the benefits, its not worth it.
Would you and everyone else in the country be prepared to pay more for food and other imported goods? Because these ideas will only push up prices.

Besides have hauliers really been found as a big source of infection? I doubt it.

I'm posting in the context of people saying no to mandatory quarantine because of lorry drivers. So the proper cost benefit analysis of what I proposed is quarantine with no drivers on ferries vs. no quarantine at all. I'm not trying to solve drivers spreading Covid. I'm trying to remove it as a reason to not enforce some controls.

ginoginelli

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why can't lorries be shipped without drivers? Can't they just park like normal and get off the ship?

That's a good idea actually. I'm struggling to find a reason why it would work but I'm sure the haulier companies and irish goverment will come up with a plethora of excuses if pushed on it.

Red Silurian

Deleted User wrote: »

Well you have an entire 18-hour ferry trip where the cabs could be sprayed down.

Fact is if all of the UK starts to implement mandatory quarantine, our "but Arlene" excuse is gone, and we're going to have to match the UK's efforts because of the border and CTA. "but it's hard" won't cut it.

Again, I'm not saying it's impossible, in fact I'd say it is very possible, but it would require a bit of out-of-the-box thinking

timmyntc

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm posting in the context of people saying no to mandatory quarantine because of lorry drivers. So the proper cost benefit analysis of what I proposed is quarantine with no drivers on ferries vs. no quarantine at all. I'm not trying to solve drivers spreading Covid. I'm trying to remove it as a reason to not enforce some controls.

Drivers should just be exempt from quarantining.
Can test them on the ferry on each journey, so if they do pick up something contact tracing can quickly stomp it out.

But talk of having 2 drivers, one at each port is madness. It would wreak havoc on supply chains everywhere.

faceman

timmyntc wrote: »

Drivers should just be exempt from quarantining.
Can test them on the ferry on each journey, so if they do pick up something contact tracing can quickly stomp it out.

If it’s that easy for drivers then it begs the question - why aren’t we doing that across society for all professions, restaurants, gyms etc?

timmyntc

faceman wrote: »

If it’s that easy for drivers then it begs the question - why aren’t we doing that across society for all professions, restaurants, gyms etc?

Because drivers by nature dont have a massive interaction with others. They are not a service industry like restaurants, and they are not a space where people exercise?

Drivers drive in a vehicle, and cross a border.
We are only trying to quarantine at the border, not at entrances to gyms or restaurants so I dont see the comparison tbh

faceman

timmyntc wrote: »

Because drivers by nature dont have a massive interaction with others. They are not a service industry like restaurants, and they are not a space where people exercise?

Drivers drive in a vehicle, and cross a border.
We are only trying to quarantine at the border, not at entrances to gyms or restaurants so I dont see the comparison tbh

Ah so what you’re saying is we can determine the risk by gauging interactions and protection along the way. Then should the same logic apply elsewhere?

E.g. hair salon
Daily antigen test
Stylist dresses head to toe in ppe
Customers wearing mask

That’s going to reduce risk drastically. We know this form countries that do more thorough contact tracing than Ireland s

But what about what drivers do off the clock though?

I know of one nursing home in the west of Ireland first hand where every resident (36) picked up covid. The person who brought it in to the home was a nurse who had attended a house party during lockdown.

timmyntc

faceman wrote: »

Ah so what you’re saying is we can determine the risk by gauging interactions and protection along the way. Then should the same logic apply elsewhere?

E.g. hair salon
Daily antigen test
Stylist dresses head to toe in ppe
Customers wearing mask

That’s going to reduce risk drastically. We know this form countries that do more thorough contact tracing than Ireland s

But what about what drivers do off the clock though?

I know of one nursing home in the west of Ireland first hand where every resident (36) picked up covid. The person who brought it in to the home was a nurse who had attended a house party during lockdown.

All that other stuff is irrelevant. Delivery drivers are essential part of the food (& other goods) supply chains.

If we test drivers on every crossing, we would know within a day or two if they test positive and it will be trivial to trace their contacts in that time because they would be very limited.

Nurses and hairdressers are pure whataboutery.
What has nurses going to house parties got to do with quarantining people at the border?

faceman

timmyntc wrote: »

All that other stuff is irrelevant. Delivery drivers are essential part of the food (& other goods) supply chains.

If we test drivers on every crossing, we would know within a day or two if they test positive and it will be trivial to trace their contacts in that time because they would be very limited.

Nurses and hairdressers are pure whataboutery.
What has nurses going to house parties got to do with quarantining people at the border?

You’re missing the point and lost in the weeds.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not talking about containers. I'm saying the driver parks the cab and trailer on the ferry as normal, and then gets off. A driver in France gets on the ferry and drives it away.

It can't be that hard to organise it so a driver goes to the terminal in one lorry and leaves in another. Of course it's "hard" but if there are no drivers and the ferries are always full, then that's the same number of drivers needed.

There are posters here questioning how some of us cannot grasp this simple idea that all supply lines are cut if drivers can't travel. Like essential goods and medicines gone. How on Earth can this be, if a cab and trailer can be ferried without the driver?

You want a driver to leave HIS TRUCK on a ferry unacompanied for a random stranger to then drive away in a different country?

Ownership, insurance, control of goods, customs..........

Its amazing how people expect entire global industries to just change completely for them.

Global industry, maritime law and the entire Irish justice system, just like that

I don't want anything. Drivers are low risk and can be tested frequently. You can't just put up seventeen million reasons for something not to happen and when others methodically pick through them, lambast them.

Would it extremely difficult? Yes. Who invented this scenario? You, by claiming Ireland would be cut off from the world. Essential supplies like the vaccines themselves gone apparently. Of course someone has to pipe in and say well actually, there would be a way around that. And there is. Just like the fines and deposits thing, there is a way, but it's hard. As if lockdowns for a year aren't hard.

That's the alternative. Life back to normal with changes like we're talking about here, and apparently they're just too damn hard.

Can we get onto the next reason this can't happen? I like trying to deal with one a day.

normanoffside

I’m hearing Donnelly saying today that vaccinated people won’t be exempt from quarantine. Basically nobody will be welcome in Ireland and no one allowed to leave.

https://twitter.com/toibin1/status/1375083564228820992?s=21

josip

normanoffside wrote: »

I’m hearing Donnelly saying today that vaccinated people won’t be exempt from quarantine. Basically nobody will be welcome in Ireland and no one allowed to leave.

https://twitter.com/toibin1/status/1375083564228820992?s=21

You'd think Peader would have someone to spellcheck his tweets.

monkeybutter

normanoffside wrote: »

I’m hearing Donnelly saying today that vaccinated people won’t be exempt from quarantine. Basically nobody will be welcome in Ireland and no one allowed to leave.

https://twitter.com/toibin1/status/1375083564228820992?s=21

that's from the countries on the list right

caveat emptor

josip wrote: »

There are some types of RoRo that are driverless and require port tractors (shunters).

You probably couldn't see them in operation in Dublin Port, but years ago you could go easily get to a point in Roslare where you would see them in operation.
https://www.mafi.de/en/products/tractors/

Only the trailer unit is on the ship, each port would have a number of tractor units for unloading these trailers and bringing them to a nearby park.
For this to be realistic logistically, you need a lot of tractor units, drivers and a large amount of nearby space for parking the trailers.
Dublin Port have always said they don't have that capacity.

All that being said, the Celine and Delphine can bring in up to 580 trailers at a time, so there is some capacity there.
But those 580 trailers require 8km of lane space so you can see where some of the constraints are.

Great post, very informative. This does exist and is used. It's not favoured by the industry as more costly and less efficient.

faceman

normanoffside wrote: »

I’m hearing Donnelly saying today that vaccinated people won’t be exempt from quarantine. Basically nobody will be welcome in Ireland and no one allowed to leave.

https://twitter.com/toibin1/status/1375083564228820992?s=21

Another example of NPHET and the government going against the science.

Vaccinated people aren’t spreaders

faceman

“Won’t someone think of the variants!!”

I guess they did

https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1375159770634539009?s=21

ginoginelli

When are these disengneuinous clowns going to update the mandatory hotel quarantine list? No Poland, no Italy, no france -All of which are in their 4th wave with variants to beat the band.

Our goverment are a joke.

Feria40

ginoginelli wrote: »

When are these disengneuinous clowns going to update the mandatory hotel quarantine list? No Poland, no Italy, no france -All of which are in their 4th wave with variants to beat the band.

Our goverment are a joke.

Who knows.

It's probably politically charged to be adding a bunch of EU countries to the list.

In any event, most over 80's here are vaccinated and they have begun moving on to people with underlying medical conditions. The gov are still saying that over 80% of adults will have at least one jab received in 12 weeks time.

IMHO people remain far too excited about travel restrictions when traffic is probably down 90% in terms of numbers traveling

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't want anything. Drivers are low risk and can be tested frequently. You can't just put up seventeen million reasons for something not to happen and when others methodically pick through them, lambast them.

Would it extremely difficult? Yes. Who invented this scenario? You, by claiming Ireland would be cut off from the world. Essential supplies like the vaccines themselves gone apparently. Of course someone has to pipe in and say well actually, there would be a way around that. And there is. Just like the fines and deposits thing, there is a way, but it's hard. As if lockdowns for a year aren't hard.

That's the alternative. Life back to normal with changes like we're talking about here, and apparently they're just too damn hard.

Can we get onto the next reason this can't happen? I like trying to deal with one a day.

Well first up, I have shown why what you suggest isn't feasible. You haven't countered in any way because you don't know The subject or issues from your suggestion.

You want the change, you implement it. Logically. Tell us how this shall happen.

I know the legal system and shipping albeit getting rusty on shipping as I'm out of the game a long time now, so I can speak with a degree of experience and knowledge. I know it's a global action your suggesting with absolutely no suggestion of how. I also know that it will take longer then the vaccine to be rolled out, years of not decades probable.

So in detail, displaying a knowledge of the industries and subjects you are discussing, show us your business case. Please don't leave out the changes as they occur and how we will cope during the downtime and changeover.

The euro took over 20 years to implement and that was simplifying a system within the eu. You want to complicate, change and overhaul a global infrastructure, system and law

saabsaab

Feria40 wrote: »

Who knows.

It's probably politically charged to be adding a bunch of EU countries to the list.

In any event, most over 80's here are vaccinated and they have begun moving on to people with underlying medical conditions. The gov are still saying that over 80% of adults will have at least one jab received in 12 weeks time.

IMHO people remain far too excited about travel restrictions when traffic is probably down 90% in terms of numbers traveling

Mass vaccination should deal with it but tilll then stay put. Even 10% coming in or back is a lot of spreaders coming in.

Feria40

saabsaab wrote: »

Mass vaccination should deal with it but tilll then stay put. Even 10% coming in or back is a lot of spreaders coming in.

Potential spreaders

A point in time I know but they do all come in with negative PCR tests in hand

ginoginelli

ginoginelli wrote: »

When are these disengneuinous clowns going to update the mandatory hotel quarantine list? No Poland, no Italy, no france -All of which are in their 4th wave with variants to beat the band.

Our goverment are a joke.

EU is problematic as they must be treated equally to Irish citizens. Again, you can't change international agreements and legal systems in a short space of time.

saabsaab

Feria40 wrote: »

Potential spreaders

A point in time I know but they do all come in with negative PCR tests in hand

Fair enough but no point in taking the risks at this time.

Away With The Fairies

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

EU is problematic as they must be treated equally to Irish citizens. Again, you can't change international agreements and legal systems in a short space of time.

So because of this Irish and EU citizens don't have to do mandatory quarantine (unless you count the home quarantining, but we all know some people ignore that and do whatever they want).

The thing I don't get is, how come Australians and Kiwis, how come they have to quarantine in their own country, there's no free pass for them.

Away With The Fairies

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So because of this Irish and EU citizens don't have to do mandatory quarantine (unless you count the home quarantining, but we all know some people ignore that and do whatever they want).

The thing I don't get is, how come Australians and Kiwis, how come they have to quarantine in their own country, there's no free pass for them.

Correct in the first part.

You see this is what gets me, I don't get why people equate Ireland with australia and assume duplication.

Different countries, different legal and political systems. Different natural resources. Just lots and lots of differences.

We COULD implement mandatory quarantine for all including the Irish but, and there's always a but, there's still going to be exemptions just as there is now. There's still going to be people who don't need to do it because they are needed in work for the system to keep chugging along.

Then there's the reality. Who will check, what will the penalty be, who will enforce it? How do you enforce quarantine in Ireland? It's pretty draconian and will you and saab agree with and support Gardai / soldiers utilizing force to physically force people into homes / hotels? Including children? What if the parent must quarantine but not the child? Child into care?

There's a lot of moving pieces behind these things and I personally don't believe the Irish people will actually support such a move if it was enacted. The people would, correctly in my opinion, not support a soldier using physical force on a child to ensure quarantine. I would not be comfortable using force in that situation.

Also considering neither guards or soldier are being prioritized for vaccinations. So now you have them being hands on with quarantined people and then going home to their families, shopping, etc.

josip

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So because of this Irish and EU citizens don't have to do mandatory quarantine (unless you count the home quarantining, but we all know some people ignore that and do whatever they want).

The thing I don't get is, how come Australians and Kiwis, how come they have to quarantine in their own country, there's no free pass for them.

I thought Irish/EU citizens had to do the hotel quarantining if they had been in a red country?


https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/coronavirus/general-covid-19-travel-advisory/

From 04:00 on Friday 26 March, any passenger who has been in any Category 2 country in the previous 14 days, even if only transiting through one of the countries, and even if remaining airside, is legally required to quarantine at a designated facility (Mandatory Hotel Quarantine). There are very limited exemptions to this requirement.

Away With The Fairies

josip wrote: »

I thought Irish/EU citizens had to do the hotel quarantining if they had been in a red country?


https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/coronavirus/general-covid-19-travel-advisory/

But what if they've been in another Europe country. They don't have to do the hotel mandatory quarantining. It makes no sense at all. It should be for all passengers.