Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

josip

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

But what if they've been in another Europe country. They don't have to do the hotel mandatory quarantining. It makes no sense at all. It should be for all passengers.

Yes, all those passengers with negative PCRs while domestic confirmed cases and close contacts are free to roam.

Minister for Justice Helen McEntee said it has taken a huge collaborative effort to get mandatory hotel quarantine up and running.

All that time, effort, energy, cost for an irrelevant deflection exercise.

faceman

saabsaab wrote: »

Mass vaccination should deal with it but tilll then stay put. Even 10% coming in or back is a lot of spreaders coming in.

How do you know?

Only 10% of people who have covid are spreaders and super spreaders are even less prevalent

All these travellers will have taken a PCR which reduces risk dramatically.

Travel isn’t the bad guy anymore you want it to be

ginoginelli

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

EU is problematic as they must be treated equally to Irish citizens. Again, you can't change international agreements and legal systems in a short space of time.

Nonsense. We are still a sovereign nation and can implement these measures if we wanted to. Austria is already on the list.

The problem is our small minded, spineless, self serving politicans.

saabsaab

faceman wrote: »

How do you know?

Only 10% of people who have covid are spreaders and super spreaders are even less prevalent

All these travellers will have taken a PCR which reduces risk dramatically.

Travel isn’t the bad guy anymore you want it to be

Will you still say that when we get a new vaccine resistant strain here? Would you have said it before Christmas? News from Brazil indicates indicates that possibility. There is no good reason to open up foreign travel and every reason to close it.

josip

"First poor bastard pays to be locked up for 2 weeks"

On a unrelated point, the army camouflage is a bit undone by the almost fluorescent Ireland flag on the shoulder.
If deployed in a conflict situation, would they still have that, "I'm over here" sign on them?

saabsaab

josip wrote: »

"First poor bastard pays to be locked up for 2 weeks"

On a unrelated point, the army camouflage is a bit undone by the almost fluorescent Ireland flag on the shoulder.
If deployed in a conflict situation, would they still have that, "I'm over here" sign on them?

I guess they need to stand out a bit so as not to be a target as a neutral country.

DaSilva

saabsaab wrote: »

Will you still say that when we get a new vaccine resistant strain here? Would you have said it before Christmas? News from Brazil indicates indicates that possibility. There is no good reason to open up foreign travel and every reason to close it.

I'm curious what your take on vaccine resistant strains into the future is.
My guess is that if this P1 variant has an advantage in terms of immunity its going to spread as far as it can, so I would guess over time we will see more and more territory with it, and I'd also guess that the virus itself will continue to mutate into more evasive variants, in such a world, would you suggest indefinite border closures?

I also wonder if isolating ourselves will lead us back to being completely immune naive to whatever variant does eventually make its way here. The studies last year on the endemic coronaviruses suggested that people were continually reinfected with strains that partially evaded host immunity from the previous infection, what happens if the gap is large though, and host immunity is not just reduced but totally ineffective do people end up getting very sick again because its really like a brand new virus with no help from immune memory?

saabsaab

DaSilva wrote: »

I'm curious what your take on vaccine resistant strains into the future is.
My guess is that if this P1 variant has an advantage in terms of immunity its going to spread as far as it can, so I would guess over time we will see more and more territory with it, and I'd also guess that the virus itself will continue to mutate into more evasive variants, in such a world, would you suggest indefinite border closures?

I also wonder if isolating ourselves will lead us back to being completely immune naive to whatever variant does eventually make its way here. The studies last year on the endemic coronaviruses suggested that people were continually reinfected with strains that partially evaded host immunity from the previous infection, what happens if the gap is large though, and host immunity is not just reduced but totally ineffective do people end up getting very sick again because its really like a brand new virus with no help from immune memory?

It appears that the vaccines have a degree of protection against all known variants. The virus will continue to mutate as long as it has new hosts. If we can stop the hosts or create a 'firebreak' it won't be able to mutate as quickly or perhaps at all. I think we have a good shot at that this year if we are careful and roll out is extensive.

DaSilva

saabsaab wrote: »

It appears that the vaccines have a degree of protection against all known variants. The virus will continue to mutate as long as it has new hosts. If we can stop the hosts or create a 'firebreak' it won't be able to mutate as quickly or perhaps at all. I think we have a good shot at that this year if we are careful and roll out is extensive.

I think you are very optimistic that we end circulation of this virus this year. It has animal hosts and there will be parts of the world that will not be vaccinated for years I imagine.

The vaccines giving partial protection against the current known variants is what I am getting at too, currently the variants have not diverged a lot from the original version that was used to create vaccines, I am no expert but over time I imagine they will diverge more. It might be better to have been vaccinated and then infected (but as a result of existing immunity not get very sick) from these in-between variants, so that our immunity is always keeping pace with the evolution of the virus like with the other ones. I wonder if we go too long and the variants diverge enough, could we end up being completely immune naive again and back to severe illness

saabsaab

DaSilva wrote: »

I think you are very optimistic that we end circulation of this virus this year. It has animal hosts and there will be parts of the world that will not be vaccinated for years I imagine.

Optimistic maybe but I think it can be done. Chains of circulation broken and on the fast downward trend by the end of Summer.

josip

saabsaab wrote: »

I guess they need to stand out a bit so as not to be a target as a neutral country.

Should go all the way and wear tracksuits from the Seoul Olympics in that case.

DaSilva

saabsaab wrote: »

Optimistic maybe but I think it can be done. Chains of circulation broken and on the fast downward trend by the end of Summer.

Sorry just to be clear but, you think we can stop the spread of this virus globally this year?

If so it would explain why we have very different opinions on what should be done as I don't see this virus going away this year or ever to be honest

faceman

saabsaab wrote: »

Will you still say that when we get a new vaccine resistant strain here? Would you have said it before Christmas? News from Brazil indicates indicates that possibility. There is no good reason to open up foreign travel and every reason to close it.

As I posted earlier today, we know already that vaccines work against new strains. So your point is moot.

If you thing it’s not moot then what you’re saying is that a strain *could* emerge that we’re not aware of yet.

It’s similar to those looneys who stand on the street with signs made of cardboard that say “the end is nigh”

I mean they’re right, we’re going to die sometime

That’s not to say everyone should be going on their jollies at the moment either. But we need to stop demonising travel

Let’s see how quick NPHET are to share data on the detention centres and actually cases that emerge.

ginoginelli

ginoginelli wrote: »

Nonsense. We are still a sovereign nation and can implement these measures if we wanted to. Austria is already on the list.

The problem is our small minded, spineless, self serving politicans.

Nonsense yourself.

EU mandated agreements and legislation dictates that all EU citizens must be treated equally to citizens of the host state. Austria being on the list means anyone regardless must quarantine if coming from there. Thats equal treatment

This is the level of tripe in this thread, Im done.

saabsaab

faceman wrote: »

As I posted earlier today, we know already that vaccines work against new strains. So your point is moot.

If you thing it’s not moot then what you’re saying is that a strain *could* emerge that we’re not aware of yet.

It’s similar to those looneys who stand on the street with signs made of cardboard that say “the end is nigh”

I mean they’re right, we’re going to die sometime

That’s not to say everyone should be going on their jollies at the moment either. But we need to stop demonising travel

Let’s see how quick NPHET are to share data on the detention centres and actually cases that emerge.

New strains emerge all the time. I am saying that it is very likely that a new more deadly strain will emerge if the vaccines don't get this under control. In the meantime we should close boarders as far as is possible until this is well underway. We may only have one great shot at this during 2021 so we better not mess it up by allowing mass international travel.

Ronaldinho

faceman wrote: »

As I posted earlier today, we know already that vaccines work against new strains. So your point is moot.

If you thing it’s not moot then what you’re saying is that a strain *could* emerge that we’re not aware of yet.

It’s similar to those looneys who stand on the street with signs made of cardboard that say “the end is nigh”

I mean they’re right, we’re going to die sometime

That’s not to say everyone should be going on their jollies at the moment either. But we need to stop demonising travel

Let’s see how quick NPHET are to share data on the detention centres and actually cases that emerge.

Too complacent for me, at this stage. Yes the vaccines at our disposal are effective vs. known variants but confidence of same wasn't super-high until studies were done.

Pharma companies are doing a lot of work to prepare for other potential strains that might need a different vaccine - what does that tell you.

If such a variant made it over here it's set us back 6 months +, best case scenario imo. F that for a game of soldiers. We need to get out of lockdown and for now, we need to mitigate against the risks of importing more trouble.

Tazz T

The chances are miniscule that there will be a vaccine resistant strain, especially when infections fall due to the current vaccination plan, and even if there was you could modify a vaccine to tackle it in as little as six weeks.

saabsaab

Tazz T wrote: »

The chances are miniscule that there will be a vaccine resistant strain, especially when infections fall due to the current vaccination plan, and even if there was you could modify a vaccine to tackle it in as little as six weeks.

I hope you are right!

Away With The Fairies

I would be so pee'd off if I had to do mandatory quarantine right now. Surely paying almost 2000 for 2 weeks, you deserve a safe enough country when you walk out, but nope, they walk out and can pick up infection from any one of us. Where's the sense in that?

faceman

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Too complacent for me, at this stage. Yes the vaccines at our disposal are effective vs. known variants but confidence of same wasn't super-high until studies were done.

Pharma companies are doing a lot of work to prepare for other potential strains that might need a different vaccine - what does that tell you.

If such a variant made it over here it's set us back 6 months +, best case scenario imo. F that for a game of soldiers. We need to get out of lockdown and for now, we need to mitigate against the risks of importing more trouble.

If a vaccine resistant strain emerges than it effects everyone, not just Ireland.
Spain banned travellers from the U.K. in December. The U.K. strain is now 75% dominant here. As Thanos would say, “I am inevitable”

Doesn’t matter though because the viruses can handle it just like the 3,999 other strains out there

faceman

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I would be so pee'd off if I had to do mandatory quarantine right now. Surely paying almost 2000 for 2 weeks, you deserve a safe enough country when you walk out, but nope, they walk out and can pick up infection from any one of us. Where's the sense in that?

Never thought of that and you’re right. It’s bonkers

saabsaab

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I would be so pee'd off if I had to do mandatory quarantine right now. Surely paying almost 2000 for 2 weeks, you deserve a safe enough country when you walk out, but nope, they walk out and can pick up infection from any one of us. Where's the sense in that?

At least you wouldn't be bringing in a new highly resistant variant! If we had stopped bringing in back in February we could be like New Zealand now.

Away With The Fairies

saabsaab wrote: »

At least you wouldn't be bringing in a new highly resistant variant! If we had stopped bringing in back in February we could be like New Zealand now.

The thing is, people quarantining are sharing a plane with others who get to go home to do the self isolating there. And we already know that people can't be trusted to stay at home when they have to.

Corholio

saabsaab wrote: »

At least you wouldn't be bringing in a new highly resistant variant! If we had stopped bringing in back in February we could be like New Zealand now.

'......like New Zealand' is a phrase I wish was eradicated from the forum. Such an easy thing to say without needing much evidence to back it up. Not a slight on you, but it's just such a cheap point to say 'if we had done this we would be like the so called perfect covid country'.

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Well first up, I have shown why what you suggest isn't feasible. You haven't countered in any way because you don't know The subject or issues from your suggestion.

You want the change, you implement it. Logically. Tell us how this shall happen.

I know the legal system and shipping albeit getting rusty on shipping as I'm out of the game a long time now, so I can speak with a degree of experience and knowledge. I know it's a global action your suggesting with absolutely no suggestion of how. I also know that it will take longer then the vaccine to be rolled out, years of not decades probable.

So in detail, displaying a knowledge of the industries and subjects you are discussing, show us your business case. Please don't leave out the changes as they occur and how we will cope during the downtime and changeover.

The euro took over 20 years to implement and that was simplifying a system within the eu. You want to complicate, change and overhaul a global infrastructure, system and law

I have no idea why you keep accusing me of wanting to do something when I'm simply responding with possible solution to your invented problems. You're arguing in extremely bad faith.

Let's do A.
No, because of B.
If you believe that B stops A, maybe B could be solved by C.
Oh my God I can't believe you want to do C!

Meanwhile, I don't think B stops A so there is no need for C. But you'll keep trying to hit me over the head with it. You did the same thing with the fines. You invent problems, wait for someone to posit a solution, and then attack the solution, all as a diversion from the main topic.

Acosta

saabsaab wrote: »

At least you wouldn't be bringing in a new highly resistant variant! If we had stopped bringing in back in February we could be like New Zealand now.

You can't be like New Zealand when you've got hundreds of miles of open border with another country.

faceman

Even RTE and Fergal Bowers asking serious questions about the detention centres.

That is of course, before the article descends in to the usual RTE mouth piece for the government.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0326/1206352-fergal-bowers-analysis/

mandrake04

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I would be so pee'd off if I had to do mandatory quarantine right now. Surely paying almost 2000 for 2 weeks, you deserve a safe enough country when you walk out, but nope, they walk out and can pick up infection from any one of us. Where's the sense in that?

Yeah that be pretty sh!te, but also imagine paying and being in quarantine then being released into a lockdown that almost nothing is open.

At least in NZ and Oz you have a normal life to look forward to.

faceman

mandrake04 wrote: »

Yeah that be pretty sh!te, but also imagine paying and being in quarantine then being released into a lockdown that almost nothing is open.

At least in NZ and Oz you have a normal life to look forward to.

What’s a normal life?

Happydays2020

faceman wrote: »

Even RTE and Fergal Bowers asking serious questions about the detention centres.

That is of course, before the article descends in to the usual RTE mouth piece for the government.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0326/1206352-fergal-bowers-analysis/

Bowers has been very good throughout. Only RTÉ voice with a bit of cop on.