Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

expectationlost

Macca421 wrote: »

Hey Guys, I am in Brazil atm, We are booked to come home next month on the 24th, My wife is Brazillian and we have been out here taking care of some family business. We fly through Portugal, how will this work, could we let through as the flight is from Lisbon? I am also classed as an essential worker as i work in healthcare, does this mean that I can avoid quarantine and my wife cant? I have also had covid in December so by right i should be immune now, and for the next couple of months? Just wondering if anyone knows if these circumstances somehow stop us from needing the hotel craic. On that note too, we have our own home and we would be fully intending to do our civic duty of self-isolation when returning. Just don't really fancy shelling out 2.5k to stay in a travel lodge! Any info would be welcome.

if you been in a red list country within 14 days previously you have to quarantine.
when did you got o Brazil?

Away With The Fairies

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm not against controls. Incoming passengers could be tested daily instead for the first 7 days.

I just find the notion of mandatory quarantine a horrible outcome of this pandemic. Cruel and harsh.

People can't be trusted to isolate, that's the problem. Also where does someone go when they land of a plane? Back home with mammy and daddy? And what if they end up testing positive and they went home to infect people they live with. That's not self isolating.

hotmail.com

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

People can't be trusted to isolate, that's the problem. Also where does someone go when they land of a plane? Back home with mammy and daddy? And what if they end up testing positive and they went home to infect people they live with. That's not self isolating.

I don't think it justifies mandatory quarantine for our own citizens, for nearly 2 grand.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

The plot thickens. Ireland could be in hot water for charging EU and Irish citizens to quarantine and it may be illegal to do so.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/attorney-general-warnshealth-minister-it-may-be-illegal-to-charge-eu-citizens-to-stay-in-quarantine-hotels-40262921.html

The freedom of movement issue won't work. We aren't schengen and their freedom of movement hasn't been denied.

The only issue I see is denying people the right to quarantine at a place if their choosing and the fact that you can't stop people from leaving again (as in leaving the country if they are not residents).

But every nation had it's own way of doing things and we aren't the first eu country to mandate quarantine

httpete

httpete wrote: »

Can someone tell me why there are 'legal issues' when we try to place restrictions on travel from other EU countries, yet there was no issue when Germany restricted Irish (and Portuguese) citizens from travelling there last month?
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/germany-bans-arrivals-from-ireland-portugal-over-new-covid-19-variants/

And Germany issued an outright ban which is even more severe than a mandatory quarantine.

There 'may be' but it's more than likely just in then minor details and easily tweaked

saabsaab

hotmail.com wrote: »

I don't think it justifies mandatory quarantine for our own citizens, for nearly 2 grand.

After nearly 5,000 deaths here! Pity it wasn't done last March or at Christmas. It is too little too late but at least we don't have to wait too long for the vaccines now.

Away With The Fairies

hotmail.com wrote: »

I don't think it justifies mandatory quarantine for our own citizens, for nearly 2 grand.

So how do you stop stupid people?

josip

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So how do you stop stupid people?

You could at least give Irish residents a choice.
Either willingly quarantine at home with a Singapore type tracker or go to an MHQ.

TheDriver

saabsaab wrote: »

After nearly 5,000 deaths here! Pity it wasn't done last March or at Christmas. It is too little too late but at least we don't have to wait too long for the vaccines now.

If they had applied the same quarantine measures at nursing homes and traveller funerals, it would have saved a lot of deaths.

expectationlost

TheDriver wrote: »

If they had applied the same quarantine measures at nursing homes.

how would that have worked tell us?

Away With The Fairies

josip wrote: »

You could at least give Irish residents a choice.
Either willingly quarantine at home with a Singapore type tracker or go to an MHQ.

I don't think people will like a tracking device here either.

joseywhales

I am ok in principle with the government introducing this quarantine but they must state clearly what the exit strategy is, they can't just say "we are quarantining countries on our list for which we are not showing the transparent mechanism for inclusion and we have no end date for this policy", that is madness. If they say we will have this policy as long as variants exist for which people are not vaccinated against, then this policy will last forever.

acequion

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I think 3 of these 500 today came from quarantine. So do we allow them to go home instead and quarantine with mammy and daddy and brother's and sisters. You know, where it spreads some more.

I love the way you completely ignored my points and questions.Unsurprising.When people are obsessed its tunnel vision all the way. Great idea to lock up those 3 but allow the other 497 continue their merry way out in the community. Very logical that.

Away With The Fairies

acequion wrote: »

I love the way you completely ignored my points and questions.Unsurprising.When people are obsessed its tunnel vision all the way. Great idea to lock up those 3 but allow the other 497 continue their merry way out in the community. Very logical that.

No it's not logical. I want to see isolation facilities here but that won't ever happen. Because you know, freedom.

Corholio

UDAWINNER wrote: »

If you're stupid enough to go abroad for non essential reasons during a pandemic, you should pay the 2k for the hotels. If certain people had been sensible during christmas we may not be in lockdown now

By certain people you mean those who went out shopping, visiting friends/family, having Christmas drinks etc right?

Doctor Jimbob

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

No it's not logical. I want to see isolation facilities here but that won't ever happen. Because you know, freedom.

We have less than 300 people in hospital with COVID out of a population of nearly 5 million and you want to see isolation facilities and are happy with forced quarantine? People are completely losing their minds over this. Your dismissive attitude towards freedom is scary.

We need controls, but introducing mandatory quarantine this late in the game with no clear end date is a farce.

faceman

Regardless of where anyone stands on mandatory quarantine, if anything the further issues arising since yesterday highlight the utter incompetence in government and their "expert panels". This is one covid issue where we can't criticise NPHET as they are separate to the Travel Advisory Group.

Donnelly and the Travel Advisory Group have gone against procedure, failed to consult with relevant government bodies and also made up their own new rules since they were created.

As the expression goes, "if this is true, what else is true?" Its impossible to put faith in government that any of their decisions are based on science, rule of law or common sense.

Former head of the Law Society shares some insight on why the extension of MHQ won't fly (forgive the pun)

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/legal-concerns-put-the-states-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-in-jeopardy

josip

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We have less than 300 people in hospital with COVID out of a population of nearly 5 million and you want to see isolation facilities and are happy with forced quarantine? People are completely losing their minds over this. Your dismissive attitude towards freedom is scary.

We need controls, but introducing mandatory quarantine this late in the game with no clear end date is a farce.

Some people just aren't people people.

gally74

Have people forgot that anyone flying has a negative p c r test now, people seem to have forgotten that, 72 hrs before a flight is even tight to get results etc in time.

Country is destroying itself, no leadership to see the wood from the trees, media happy to talk about the 1% issues, and many biting that cherry,

Good luck with making enemies of the us and European partners,

Away With The Fairies

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We have less than 300 people in hospital with COVID out of a population of nearly 5 million and you want to see isolation facilities and are happy with forced quarantine? People are completely losing their minds over this. Your dismissive attitude towards freedom is scary.

We need controls, but introducing mandatory quarantine this late in the game with no clear end date is a farce.

Freedom vs health. Ah sure what's health if I have the freedom to spread disease. Some people's attitude to the whole thing is shocking.

josip

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Freedom vs health. Ah sure what's health if I have the freedom to spread disease. Some people's attitude to the whole thing is shocking.

How do you think the common cold is normally spread?
People spread disease, that will never change.

Now that we have the vulnerable vaccinated, frontline HCWs and anyone else who logged onto the HSE's portal, it's absurd to be quarantining people presenting with a negative PCR.

Away With The Fairies

josip wrote: »

How do you think the common cold is normally spread?
People spread disease, that will never change.

Now that we have the vulnerable vaccinated, frontline HCWs and anyone else who logged onto the HSE's portal, it's absurd to be quarantining people presenting with a negative PCR.

Covid isn't a cold though. Also the HSE portal isn't up and running yet, you seem to think it is and people who logged on are already vaccinated, on a website that's not even in operational yet.

I think you know already that a negative PCR doesn't tell much. You can get infected the days between the test and flight. But sure, that doesn't matter.

Doctor Jimbob

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Freedom vs health. Ah sure what's health if I have the freedom to spread disease. Some people's attitude to the whole thing is shocking.

Yeah. Fúck anyone with family overseas. Fúck anyone who moved here from abroad to work and now have to choose between their jobs and visiting their families and friends. Fúck the airlines and anyone working for them.

There are a whole host of measures between leaving people free to spread disease (which I'm not suggesting anyway and as far as I can see no one else is either) and forcing people to pay for 2 weeks in a hotel they can't leave. Would you ever cop the fúck on?

munchkin_utd

josip wrote: »

How do you think the common cold is normally spread?
People spread disease, that will never change.

Now that we have the vulnerable vaccinated, frontline HCWs and anyone else who logged onto the HSE's portal, it's absurd to be quarantining people presenting with a negative PCR.

its about proportionality also. The hotel quarantine is an extreme measure intended to eliminate any possibility of an introduction of variants into the country, where a small number of infected visitors could cause massive damage to the health of the nation and the health system.
(and, this is whats in the legislation. Its not a hotel quarantine for anyone the minister doesnt like the look of)

So if coming from Brazil where theres a variant not already in ireland, you could say that the measure is justifiable.

Its not proportional or logical though to lock someone up in a hotel who is coming from a country with a similar or lower infection rate than Ireland and who is coming from a country with the same covid variants as already in Ireland. Their epidemiological characteristics are identical to any infected person in Ireland (if they were to be infected) and a proportional response is the existing one of standard home quarantine for 10 days with a test after 5 to get out of it early.

A mention from an unnamed civil servant in the papers yesterday also said that the german imposition of controls would help get the measure approved by the EU. The thing is, the EU havent approved of the German measures and they were looking to take a case against germany.
Nevertheless , the ban on travel from Austria is now ended and Czech republic (and Ireland!!!!!) is now not listed as an area of variant risk - because they look at the science, not the secret handbook of how to get zero covid in through the back door.

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Yeah. Fúck anyone with family overseas. Fúck anyone who moved here from abroad to work and now have to choose between their jobs and visiting their families and friends. Fúck the airlines and anyone working for them.

There are a whole host of measures between leaving people free to spread disease (which I'm not suggesting anyway and as far as I can see no one else is either) and forcing people to pay for 2 weeks in a hotel they can't leave. Would you ever cop the fúck on?

Regular people are the ones getting fúcked. They've had lockdowns for a year so the tiny minority can fly.

Doctor Jimbob

Deleted User wrote: »

Regular people are the ones getting fúcked. They've had lockdowns for a year so the tiny minority can fly.

Which is a perfectly valid reason for introducing measures like this a year or even 6 months ago. Not now when we're on our way out of the whole mess.

faceman

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Freedom vs health. Ah sure what's health if I have the freedom to spread disease. Some people's attitude to the whole thing is shocking.

Social distancing, closure of hospitality and face masks have eliminated flu deaths for the past winter season in Ireland. Should we consider these measures indefinitely?

Away With The Fairies

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Yeah. Fúck anyone with family overseas. Fúck anyone who moved here from abroad to work and now have to choose between their jobs and visiting their families and friends. Fúck the airlines and anyone working for them.

There are a whole host of measures between leaving people free to spread disease (which I'm not suggesting anyway and as far as I can see no one else is either) and forcing people to pay for 2 weeks in a hotel they can't leave. Would you ever cop the fúck on?

Why do you want people to leave from a quarantine hotel?

Nobody is making people choose between their jobs and families abroad. You can leave after 2 weeks of quarantine and be safe to see family.

Doctor Jimbob

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Why do you want people to leave from a quarantine hotel?

Nobody is making people choose between their jobs and families abroad. You can leave after 2 weeks of quarantine and be safe to see family.

I assume you're aware that people have a limited amount of annual leave?

I don't want there to be quarantine hotels to begin with. Bringing them in last year would have been a good move. Doing it now is nonsense.