Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

faceman

faceman wrote: »

If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you I’m getting you a t-shirt that says “5km is for exercise only ya gob****es”

I'll wear it with my "it goes over your nose" mask 😷

gmisk

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Surgery is a medical procedure.

Cosmetic surgery isn’t always a vanity decision. Most of the time it is, but not always.

A cosmetic surgery does tend to be for a non medical reason though...at least be honest..besides...it's irrelevant

It doesn't matter....they have to quarantine anyway.

Dempo1

A little confused, was it not agreed Irish citizens would not have to Quarantine in a hotel, I recall quite a fuss between Stephen Donnelly and Simon Coveney over this, also there's serious legal questions over EU citizens being detained. The AG has also got involved raising serious concerns which by all accounts are being ignored by Stephen Donnelly.

Will be interesting to see what the Judge decides tomorrow. I sense there's going to be serious legal questions over this Mandatory Hotel Quarantine.

Dempo1

Dempo1 wrote: »

A little confused, was it not agreed Irish citizens would not have to Quarantine in a hotel, I recall quite a fuss between Stephen Donnelly and Simon Coveney over this, also there's serious legal questions over EU citizens being detained. The AG has also got involved raising serious concerns which by all accounts are being ignored by Stephen Donnelly.

Will be interesting to see what the Judge decides tomorrow. I sense there's going to be serious legal questions over this Mandatory Hotel Quarantine.

The ag raised concerns about separation. All citizens being treated equally isn't a breach. No one is saying that after quarantine they can't reside here.

Slovakia had mandatory quarantine without issue and they are EU

faceman

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The ag raised concerns about separation. All citizens being treated equally isn't a breach. No one is saying that after quarantine they can't reside here.

Slovakia had mandatory quarantine without issue and they are EU

Slovakian citizens and residents can isolate at home though.

tjhook

faceman wrote: »

If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you I’m getting you a t-shirt that says “5km is for exercise only ya gob****es”

Do you honestly believe that if I drive across the country to point a telescope at the stars at a truly dark sky, and explain to the Gardai that's all I'm doing, I'll be told that's fine and allowed on my way? No exercise, just looking at the sky?


The letter of the law states exercise, but that's irrelevant if it's not what's being enforced.

From the Garda website:
"Some examples of breaches leading to FPNs in the last few days include:
• Checkpoint at Sean Moore Road, Ringsend. Driver of vehicle stated that he and two passengers travelled from Co. Meath to collect ‘burgers’ from a takeaway restaurant in Dublin 4 having travelled approximately 80km from home. All three occupants of car received a FPN."

I wouldn't categorise eating burgers as exercise... but I suppose it's subjective

faceman

faceman wrote: »

Slovakian citizens and residents can isolate at home though.

now but it's the same thing anyway, equality of treatment is key.

tjhook wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that if I drive across the country to point a telescope at the stars at a truly dark sky, and explain to the Gardai that's all I'm doing, I'll be told that's fine and allowed on my way? No exercise, just looking at the sky?


The letter of the law states exercise, but that's irrelevant if it's not what's being enforced.

From the Garda website:
"Some examples of breaches leading to FPNs in the last few days include:
• Checkpoint at Sean Moore Road, Ringsend. Driver of vehicle stated that he and two passengers travelled from Co. Meath to collect ‘burgers’ from a takeaway restaurant in Dublin 4 having travelled approximately 80km from home. All three occupants of car received a FPN."

I wouldn't categorise eating burgers as exercise... but I suppose it's subjective

You really really don't get the point that is being made.

Let be see if I can clear it up.

Under level 5, no non essential travel is allowed.

Essential travel is allowed but there is no caveat on a set distance. If you genuinely need to go 80km for a particular essential item, then so be it. If you can get the item 1km away but choose to ignore 20 shops enroute for no reason then it's no longer essential.

The exception to this is exercise. Exercise is deemed essential but it's specifically limited to 5km in total. Doesn't matter what reason you have, that's the limit.

So, 5km for exercise, nothing else. All other reasons and distances are judged on their individual merits.

In the case of the burgers the process was this:

Gardai ascertain if the REASON for the travel was essential. Having established that food is indeed essential they then consider if the distance was reasonable having considered the situation. They deemed it was not. Was the fine paid? Was it challenged in court and won? I dunno.

In the car if star gazing the process is simile:

Gardai ascertain if the reason for the travel was essential. Having established that the reason is not essential, you get the ticket. Doesn't matter if you are only 1km away. If you admit your only looking at the stars, your getting fined it told to sod off home

tjhook

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

You really really don't get the point that is being made.

Well I made the original point that we're being restricted to within 5km of home other than for essential reasons. You and another poster corrected me to say the 5km rule is for exercise only. I agreed that's the wording of the law but showed how it's being applied wider than just exercise.

If you have another point, I'm not seeing it. Please do explain.

lawrencesummers

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It does not. The regulations state ESSENTIAL surgery.

The word "essential" was inputted after the whole Spanish dental appointments fiasco

Isnt essential a subjective term.

Sure it’s essential that you get a bullet removed from your stomach because you could die.

But somebody can argue that their visit to a medical professional is essential to their well being and mental health even if it’s not to resolve a life threatening issue.

tjhook

tjhook wrote: »

Well I made the original point that we're being restricted to within 5km of home other than for essential reasons. You and another poster corrected me to say the 5km rule is for exercise only. I agreed that's the wording of the law but showed how it's being applied wider than just exercise.

If you have another point, I'm not seeing it. Please do explain.

I don't think my edited answer can be any clearer. Have a read of it.

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Isnt essential a subjective term.

Sure it’s essential that you get a bullet removed from your stomach because you could die.

But somebody can argue that their visit to a medical professional is essential to their well being and mental health even if it’s not to resolve a life threatening issue.

Well all tickets are really. They are all issued in the opinion of a garda. Covid isn't unique in that regard.

In reality, they can try but they will fail unless a medical professional is willing to back you and give expert testimony. Then it's upto the judge to decide. Again like all tickets issued and challenged.

lawrencesummers

gmisk wrote: »

A cosmetic surgery does tend to be for a non medical reason though...at least be honest..besides...it's irrelevant

It doesn't matter....they have to quarantine anyway.

There is defiantly a problem here.

The AG has issue with some countries having quarantine imposed on them.

Now as far as I’m concerned laws apply to people as you can’t quarantine a recently arriving country, so what gives the government the right to insist that an Italian arriving from Italy can’t be quarantined yet an Italian arriving from Dubai must be???

An if an Italian isn’t required to quarantine then we sure as sh1t can’t force an Irish person to.

I reckon the outcome of the court tomorrow is either:

They get the choice of jail or hotel, and pick jail which has them at home by the next day, or hotel and it’s until they get a test back.
The judge defers / adjourns.

I’m not sure the court they will be in has the power to adjudicate on this being a constitutional or EU law issue, maybe someone here knows more about this.

mensa

Outside of the hotel quarantine scheme, all visitors to Ireland must quarantine at home. One exemption is that someone from an "international organization" can leave quarantine for'essential business purposes'. Is this to facilitate business people from multinationals?

tjhook

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So, 5km for exercise, nothing else. All other reasons and distances are judged on their individual merits.

The government puts a different spin on it. Rather than outlining the one purpose for which you can't travel >5km, they list the purposes for which you can. "Individual Merits" seem to be interpreted in practice with people being fine to do most things within 5km of home, but not outside that.

From https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#travel-restrictions

You can travel outside 5km of home for the following reasons:

• travel to and from work, where work involves providing an essential service
• teachers, SNAs and other school staff will be allowed to travel to school to facilitate distance learning
• to attend medical appointments and collect medicines and other health products
• travel to attend disability day services
• travel to attend a court
• for vital family reasons, such as providing care to children, elderly or vulnerable people, and in particular for those who live alone, but excluding social family visits
• for food shopping
• for farming purposes (food production or care of animals)
• to attend a wedding or funeral
• to visit a grave

tjhook

tjhook wrote: »

The government puts a different spin on it. Rather than outlining the one purpose for which you can't travel >5km, they list the purposes for which you can. "Individual Merits" seem to be interpreted in practice with people being fine to do most things within 5km of home, but not outside that.

From https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#travel-restrictions

You can travel outside 5km of home for the following reasons:

• travel to and from work, where work involves providing an essential service
• teachers, SNAs and other school staff will be allowed to travel to school to facilitate distance learning
• to attend medical appointments and collect medicines and other health products
• travel to attend disability day services
• travel to attend a court
• for vital family reasons, such as providing care to children, elderly or vulnerable people, and in particular for those who live alone, but excluding social family visits
• for food shopping
• for farming purposes (food production or care of animals)
• to attend a wedding or funeral
• to visit a grave

That's not what that is saying, you have just decided that yourself when in reality it says nothing about within 5km because it's not relevant. There are no activities permitted within 5km that are not permitted outside 5km except for exercise. You still don't get it. I'm unsure how at this stage but ok. I need to go asleep.

Here's the start of that edited clip by the way:

"People are required to stay at home except for travel for work, education or other essential purposes"

I don't see it say "people need to stay within 5km except for work, education and other essential purposes". Do you?

Tyrone212

Two old vain gets heading off to Dubai for some home improvements then playing the victim when they return thinking the rules are beneath them. They won't be able to insta from their cell tonight. Light a candle for them. Court in the morning.

tjhook

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I don't see it say "people need to stay within 5km except for work, education and other essential purposes". Do you?

From gov.ie:
"there will be a penalty for movement outside 5km of home, with exemptions to this for essential work and essential purposes"

josip

Do people still believe that car load of lads drove to Dublin for 'burgers' ?

Are the Dubai Two being held in Ballymun overnight ?

JP Liz V1

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Two old vain gets heading off to Dubai for some home improvements then playing the victim when they return thinking the rules are beneath them. They won't be able to insta from their cell tonight. Light a candle for them. Court in the morning.

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1378055886409768960

How was it essential travel

Larbre34

Another two who believe that the law is only for other people.

I think given the high profile of hotel quarantine just now and the necessity of it being seen by the public as robust and mandatory, that these two will either be let enter quarantine from Court, with a substantial fine, or they will be imprisoned for anything up to the maximum of 6 months and will spend the first 14 days in isolation.

There can be no Karen behaviour tolerated with this.

josip

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1378055886409768960

How was it essential travel

Totally agree, pics or GTFO :pac:

Atlantic Dawn

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1378055886409768960

How was it essential travel

They could mention mental health to see them over the line.

Rodin

is_that_so wrote: »

Likely to be legal issues with applying it to EU countries. As for last year FG were never fans of the idea at all and argued it was a far smaller risk than locals not keeping away from each other.

Austria?

suicide_circus

Rodin wrote: »

Austria?

Austria is a smaller nation. They blinked when Germany/France were involved.

suicide_circus

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Two old vain gets heading off to Dubai for some home improvements then playing the victim when they return thinking the rules are beneath them. They won't be able to insta from their cell tonight. Light a candle for them. Court in the morning.

Two huns cant even go for a boob job and tummy tuck whats the world coming to?

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Another two who believe that the law is only for other people.

I think given the high profile of hotel quarantine just now and the necessity of it being seen by the public as robust and mandatory, that these two will either be let enter quarantine from Court, with a substantial fine, or they will be imprisoned for anything up to the maximum of 6 months and will spend the first 14 days in isolation.

There can be no Karen behaviour tolerated with this.

Jesus, that's s bit harsh considering the legal maximum is 1 month ya tyrant!

lawrencesummers

I’m still amused that the perpetrators of #golfgate have not had their day in court yet, but these two women will make it to court less than 24 hours after their incident.


Are they waiting for the next pandemic before seeking justice for #golfgate?

Rodin

suicide_circus wrote: »

Austria is a smaller nation. They blinked when Germany/France were involved.

The point is that it undermines the " potentially legal issues when it comes to EU countries" rubbish.

faceman

Rodin wrote: »

The point is that it undermines the " potentially legal issues when it comes to EU countries" rubbish.

How do you know? The AG is concerned. The former head of the law society is concerned. A former minister for justice is concerned.

What do you know that they don’t? :pac: :pac:

Rodin

faceman wrote: »

How do you know? The AG is concerned. The former head of the law society is concerned. A former minister for justice is concerned.

What do you know that they don’t? :pac: :pac:

I know that Austria is already on the list! And its in the EU.