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Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

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    #3992
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭standardg60


    gally74 wrote: »
    The virus will continue to mutate for the next 1000 years,

    Are you goimg to shut the airport till then

    I don't necessarily disagree with you.
    But the law is what we've all voted for.
    Would you prefer anarchy?


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    #3993
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    standardg60 wrote: »
    I don't necessarily disagree with you.
    But the law is what we've all voted for.
    Would you prefer anarchy?

    No but we didn’t vote for this,

    Were in a bad state, prime for a new party to emerge. No leadership, borrowing weekly, no ond to see the wood from the trees with nphet,

    RTÉ in compliance with the gov.

    Theres more damage being done now than in 2008.


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    #3994
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    The airports aren't shut! Still thousands coming in.


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    #3995
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    gally74 wrote: »
    No but we didn’t vote for this,

    Were in a bad state, prime for a new party to emerge. No leadership, borrowing weekly, no ond to see the wood from the trees with nphet,

    RTÉ in compliance with the gov.

    Theres more damage being done now than in 2008.


    All parties are in favour of these measures or stricter. Not only that most people are also of the same opinion as per recent polls.


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    #3996
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    saabsaab wrote: »
    All parties are in favour of these measures or stricter. Not only that most people are also of the same opinion as per recent polls.

    Ya, and thats nor leadership its populance,

    In years to come i cant wait for the tribunal, who knew what when etc.


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    #3997
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    saabsaab wrote: »
    The airports aren't shut! Still thousands coming in.

    Yes many with genuine reasons, not all holidays, met a chapbthe other day who was a keybtesource to a manufacture doubling their vaccine supply. But youd have yhem do 14 days


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    #3998
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭standardg60


    gally74 wrote: »
    No but we didn’t vote for this,

    Were in a bad state, prime for a new party to emerge. No leadership, borrowing weekly, no ond to see the wood from the trees with nphet,

    RTÉ in compliance with the gov.

    Theres more damage being done now than in 2008.

    I'm with you. My policies..
    Withdrawal of all state payments and tax reliefs to the housing sector.
    Removal of tax relief on union dues.
    Removal of tax relief on pension subscriptions.
    Privatisation of the health and transport services.
    Grants for the rewetting of bogs and reforestation of farmland, and CPOs in cases of non compliance.

    What do you reckon on our chances?


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    #3999
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    standardg60 wrote: »
    I'm with you. My policies..
    Withdrawal of all state payments and tax reliefs to the housing sector.
    Removal of tax relief on union dues.
    Removal of tax relief on pension subscriptions.
    Privatisation of the health and transport services.
    Grants for the rewetting of bogs and reforestation of farmland, and CPOs in cases of non compliance.

    What do you reckon on our chances?

    I write it out in a verse—
    MacDonagh and MacBride
    And Connolly and Pearse
    Now and in time to be,
    Wherever green is worn,
    Are changed, changed utterly:
    A terrible beauty is born.

    And i say that as an irish man not as some sinn fein muppet.


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    #4000
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    standardg60 wrote: »
    Booking them in the first place essentially removed any legal requirement for them to pay. I imagine that is why the bail requirements were dismissed by the high court.

    I agree with your other posts

    Nope. There's a system in place, the decision on payment still hasn't been made.

    They may well have lied to the embassy and it was assumed they wouldn't pay but as they should have 5 or 6 grand going spare now, they can pay.


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    #4001
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    gally74 wrote: »
    When did travel become a crime?

    Country had lost the plot,

    Its more they appear to be in breach of non essential travel and quarentine restrictions. Restrictions which are there to help prevent the further introduction of new cases into the country.

    The UK have a similar system - and they have made travel for holiday or leisure purposes llegal...


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    #4002
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    gally74 wrote: »
    Ya and thry are getting rid of it

    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-travel-international-holidays-vaccine-passports-tests-boris-johnson-quarantine-ba-heathrow-160012746.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAD5uzD0_N3sYvY1uVirTlwS96Bruet8OyLskd5Lund5-IUFYxYjH4EBDO5zTpVcdNe7eENYklA4moQ-Q32flmta4N8CnpADvtXsiMtL1qjs97jhRNaYEFHAKsKG2eIaXxEHd85eDN1l7HlMQfCYOg23_xOUj1XE3opB0gHBRxd9e

    Indeed. They have it earmarked for review subject to a whole bunch of caveats and restrictions. Oh and they're at an advanced stage of their vaccination schedule.


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    #4003
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    standardg60 wrote: »
    Sorry i've no idea what you're referring to here

    Auto correct. Just spotted now. DFA has consistently performed since the founding of the State. D/Health has certainly not.


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    #4004
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    I have already answered why it is unconstitutional. For some reason you are under the impression I agreed with you that it's not unconstitutional, but I have explained that it violates Article 40.03 and 40.04.

    Interestingly, as late as 3 February 2021 the Taoiseach was claiming that MHQ for Irish citizens was unconstitutional. He has since changed his tune, and we'll see soon whether this is correct.

    The counter argument is that personal rights in the Constitution are subordinate to the public good. The Supreme Court in the past has permitted the government to restrict fundamental rights in the name of the public good. This was acknowledged in Ryan v Attorney General [1965]. However, there is a strict proportionality test that must be met, and this was set out by Costello J. in Heaney v Ireland [1994]. In order to justify restraining personal rights and liberties of citizens, a measure must meet all of the following criteria:
    1. Pursue an objective of sufficient importance.
    2. Be rationally connected to that objective, and not unfair or arbitrary.
    3. Impair the right as little as possible.

    Clearly the objective being pursued is of sufficient importance, and arguably it impairs rights as little as possible (being that the quarantine period is determined by scientific data). However, as I have alrady stated - the measure is both unfair and arbitrary in that the designation of countries in Category 2 is arbitrary and not based on the science.

    The government has undermined itself repeatedly in its public pronouncements on this. No doubt the barristers representing these two women will be combing over everything Simon Coveney, Micheál Martin, Stephen Donnelly and NPHET have said publicly about the Category 2 countries.

    Ergo I argue that this particular quarantine law is unconstitutional by my understanding of the constitution and case law. Now the ultimate decision is in the hands of the court, but hopefully this explains my reasoning to your satisfaction.

    Thanks for this. Any reflections on how this the legislation interacts with EU Freedom of Movement. I have noted the EU Commission is concerned with restrictions on place in various countries.

    The secondary legislation powers in the Health Act are quite extraordinary - see Irish Times today about Donnelly determined to follow through. Danger this will lead to both a constitutional and political crisis.


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    #4005
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Thanks for this. Any reflections on how this the legislation interacts with EU Freedom of Movement. I have noted the EU Commission is concerned with restrictions on place in various countries.

    The secondary legislation powers in the Health Act are quite extraordinary - see Irish Times today about Donnelly determined to follow through. Danger this will lead to both a constitutional and political crisis.

    How does being in jail affect freedom of movement?
    Surely its illegal to jail people if you are restricting their EU freedom of movement?
    I expect jails to close on the basis of this as EU freedom of movement trumps local law breaking ...
    Free the portlaoise 2000
    Free the mountjoy 1000


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    #4006
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    MissShihTzu wrote: »
    According to the Examiner, these women went for 'cosmetic procedures', which were in fact not done. So they went on holiday then.

    All paid for by family whiprounds. How the defence lawyers told the judge all that with a straight face, I have no idea.

    Apparently they couldn't do the quarantine as no one to mind the kids. Wasn't an issue while they were in Dubai funnily enough.


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    #4007
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,641 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    AuntySnow wrote: »
    How does being in jail affect freedom of movement?
    Surely its illegal to jail people if you are restricting their EU freedom of movement?
    I expect jails to close on the basis of this as EU freedom of movement trumps local law breaking ...
    Free the portlaoise 2000
    Free the mountjoy 1000

    Having, contracting or transmitting Covid is not a crime.


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    #4008
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,641 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    All the speculation on the 2 women, their circumstances, suggestions they’re criminals by people here and in public.

    Reminds of that time the public suspected that a family of Irish travellers had kidnapped a child as the child looked far too exotic for them. The gardai took the child from them

    We all know how that ended up.


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    #4009
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    faceman wrote: »
    Having, contracting or transmitting Covid is not a crime.

    Potentially Transmitting it in contravention of health laws is


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    #4010
    ZX7R
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    AuntySnow wrote: »
    Potentially Transmitting it in contravention of health laws is

    No its not, knowingly been infected and deliberately transmitting it is.


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    #4011
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    ZX7R wrote: »
    No its not, knowingly been infected and deliberately transmitting it is.

    What about knowingly being a close contact and just continuing on like normal?


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    #4012
    ZX7R
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    What about knowingly being a close contact and just continuing on like normal?

    Not illegal.
    If you're contacted as a know close contact ,there is no legal requirement for you to comply with the contact tracing team.


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    #4013
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Not illegal.
    If you're contacted as a know close contact ,there is no legal requirement for you to comply with the contact tracing team.

    What the actual fück? So are you saying, you're free to do what you want until you test positive?


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    #4014
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    What the actual fück? So are you saying, you're free to do what you want until you test positive?

    Indeed. Maybe looking closer to home rather than minimal risks from abroad would be a bit more sensible.


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    #4015
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Indeed. Maybe looking closer to home rather than minimal risks from abroad would be a bit more sensible.

    There is risk from abroad though. Are we forgetting what happened with that barber in Sligo last summer. Came home and went to visit his family and ended up positive and infecting them.


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    #4016
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    b0nk1e wrote: »
    Right, so we're now into collective preventative detention. That's absolutely wild. Within about ten minutes we've spiralled from "anyone who tests positive for Covid must be imprisoned" to "anyone who tests positive for Covid must be imprisoned. And their children. And their children's children. Regardless of whether they test positive or not".

    I think you're getting confused between prison and mandatory hotel quarantine


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    #4017
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    There is risk from abroad though. Are we forgetting what happened with that barber in Sligo last summer. Came home and went to visit his family and ended up positive and infecting them.

    To be fair at the time we had less than 10 cases every day so him adding another 20 made a huge difference

    We currently have 500-700 daily cases so MHQ isn't going to stop all that many cases... What it will do is it will allow us to expand on a system that's already setup if we need to slow down inbound travel this summer


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    #4018
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    There is risk from abroad though. Are we forgetting what happened with that barber in Sligo last summer. Came home and went to visit his family and ended up positive and infecting them.

    There is a risk. And I agree with PCR tests and self quarantine. Ok for follow up checks as well but we have continued to fail at contact tracing.

    I know of one case here at Christmas where one individual infected over 60 family members.


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    #4019
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Happydays2020 wrote: »

    I know of one case here at Christmas where one individual infected over 60 family members.

    Something which wouldn't have happened had they been isolating (hotel or otherwise) before they met their families


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    #4020
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    Something which wouldn't have happened had they been isolating (hotel or otherwise) before they met their families

    It was not travel related.


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    #4021
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users Posts: 86,747 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Is France, US, Italy and Germany going on the mandatory quarantine lists? The government it seems don't want to upset the EU
    https://forumofgames.com/




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