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Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

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    #4202
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 10,053 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    saabsaab wrote: »
    You miss the point. 10 out of those already screened ! Not to mention the new variants from abroad.

    You miss the point!

    Random symptomless members of the public are more likely to test positive for Covid than people flying into the country that have already been pre-screened.


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    #4203
    a_squirrelman
    Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    saabsaab wrote: »
    You miss the point. 10 out of those already screened ! Not to mention the new variants from abroad.

    Unknown variants. Possible future variants. Variants under the bed.


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    #4204
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 10,053 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    a_squirrelman wrote: »
    Unknown variants. Possible future variants. Variants under the bed.

    People just believe everything they hear on the telly.


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    #4205
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    normanoffside wrote: »
    People just believe everything they hear on the telly.


    Look up Professor Kingston Mills. These were already screened, just think about it, that makes it far worse!


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    #4206
    BobbyBolivia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭BobbyBolivia


    saabsaab wrote: »
    You miss the point. 10 out of those already screened ! Not to mention the new variants from abroad.


    Which new variants are those?


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    #4207
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    Which new variants are those?


    What ones are you looking for Brazilian, Breton, South African?


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    #4208
    BobbyBolivia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭BobbyBolivia


    saabsaab wrote: »
    What ones are you looking for Brazilian, Breton, South African?

    So all variants which our vaccines work against?

    Bit strange too that we would try to keep out the B.1.1.7 which is the dominant variant anyway here now isn't it?

    Any other new variants? I presumed there were new ones you were referring to that the vaccines don't work against - hence the need for mandatory quarantine to keep them out.

    The way you and the likes of Micheal Martin were talking, you would swear there were tons of deadly vaccine evading variants wandering around France, Isreal and USA. I hadn't heard though, maybe I missed something?


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    #4209
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    So all variants which our vaccines work against?

    Bit strange too that we would try to keep out the B.1.1.7 which is the dominant variant anyway here now isn't it?

    Any other new variants? I presumed there were new ones you were referring to that the vaccines don't work against - hence the need for mandatory quarantine to keep them out.

    The way you and the likes of Micheal Martin were talking, you would swear there were tons of deadly vaccine evading variants wandering around France, Isreal and USA. I hadn't heard though, maybe I missed something?


    Why wait for one that the vaccines don't work on? The SA variant doesn't respond as well to the vaccine as it is.


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    #4210
    BobbyBolivia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭BobbyBolivia


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Why wait for one that the vaccines don't work on? The SA variant doesn't respond as well to the vaccine as it is.

    Pfizer vaccine works perfectly well on the South African variant. Moderna works fine aswell, there are more than enough neutralising antibodies produced by the vaccine to protect against the South African variant.

    But you quite beautifully get to my next point and outline the insanity around the mob screaming for MHQ.

    By your logic there can be no end to Mandatory Hotel Quarantine. Covid-19 will become endemic, so there will always be a risk of an unknown variant coming along. When does MHQ end if there is always a potential variant lurking around the corner? 5 years, 10 years?

    Do you think it is rational to kill entire sectors of our economy for something which doesn't even exist yet, permanently?


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    #4211
    Golfman64
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭Golfman64


    saabsaab wrote: »
    10 of those who passed through screening and now in quarantine have now tested positive for covid! Pity this wasn't in a year ago.

    These are the results of testing all who are involved with MHQ - travellers and staff. This could literally be staff members working at the MHQ facilities who contracted Covid in the community and are now infecting travellers who arrived with a negative PCR....;)


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    #4212
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    a_squirrelman wrote: »
    Unknown variants. Possible future variants. Variants under the bed.
    "variant under the bed" I'm going to use that one.


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    #4213
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    JDD wrote: »
    This was exactly my point last night. Israel should not be on the MHQ list, it makes a nonsense of the whole list.

    Millions of Palestinians are not vaccinated. So that is maybe why they are on the list.


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    #4214
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    normanoffside wrote: »
    10? Wow.
    Over 600 who walked into pop up test centres over the last week with absolutely no symptoms tested positive, we only have these centres in a few places.

    People flying into MHQ are actually testing positive at a lower level (2.3%) than random members of the resident Irish public with no symptoms(2.7%)

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/retail-cultural-sites-reopening-possible-from-may-4th-if-we-hold-firm-1.4531000

    In areas that there is known community spread as opposed to other areas.


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    #4215
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,641 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Look up Professor Kingston Mills. These were already screened, just think about it, that makes it far worse!

    That’s not entirely true. The 10 positive tests came from testing 413 inmates and 143 staff. Not all inmates arrived with pcr tests. The report did not divulge the breakout of the 10 nor did it indicate if it excludes false positives.

    So the positive rate is 1.7% in total in line with the average rate for cases linked to travel

    Meanwhile 400 people tested positive yesterday and won’t have enforced quarantine regardless of what variant they have.

    Is the penny dropping yet?


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    #4216
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Why wait for one that the vaccines don't work on? The SA variant doesn't respond as well to the vaccine as it is.

    You say it like a vaccine proof vaccine is just around the corner. We can’t live a life of what ifs.
    Variants may well find away around vaccines, they often do- but that’s why we’ll likely have a yearly vaccine approach to Covid like the flu where they vaccinate against whatever strain is doing the rounds. The good news is mRNA vaccines are well suited to adjusting to suit over time.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



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    #4217
    fm
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭fm


    wes wrote: »
    Millions of Palestinians are not vaccinated. So that is maybe why they are on the list.

    But these millions of Palestinians don't have easy access to Israel and they haven't stopped the infection rate from continuing to drop in Israel which is well below ours. 23 per 100,000 is the seven day average there.


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    #4218
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    faceman wrote: »
    That’s not entirely true. The 10 positive tests came from testing 413 inmates and 143 staff. Not all inmates arrived with pcr tests. The report did not divulge the breakout of the 10 nor did it indicate if it excludes false positives.

    So the positive rate is 1.7% in total in line with the average rate for cases linked to travel

    Meanwhile 400 people tested positive yesterday and won’t have enforced quarantine regardless of what variant they have.

    Is the penny dropping yet?


    How do we know the false negatives either? People arriving without any tests still, from what you say, makes it worse. There is every reason to take these measures and more for a short time to come, it isn't forever.


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    #4219
    bombs away
    Closed Accounts Posts: 291 ✭✭bombs away


    saabsaab wrote: »
    How do we know the false negatives either? People arriving without any tests still, from what you say, makes it worse. There is every reason to take these measures and more for a short time to come, it isn't forever.

    You honestly believe these measures will be here for the short term? Covid is’nt going to go away like some people believe including the Government. Everyone thinks that vaccines are a magic solution yet all the experts state that the virus will become an annual event similar to the flu.

    Would you like to have MHQ every winter when we get spikes? Would you like to have MHQ for the flu when it becomes a bigger killer than Covid. Once these restrictions come in, they are extremely difficult to get rid of, even politicians have admitted that despite the sunset clause. Be careful what you wish for as your freedoms are being eroded.


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    #4220
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    bombs away wrote: »
    You honestly believe these measures will be here for the short term? Covid is’nt going to go away like some people believe including the Government. Everyone thinks that vaccines are a magic solution yet all the experts state that the virus will become an annual event similar to the flu.

    Would you like to have MHQ every winter when we get spikes? Would you like to have MHQ for the flu when it becomes a bigger killer than Covid. Once these restrictions come in, they are extremely difficult to get rid of, even politicians have admitted that despite the sunset clause. Be careful what you wish for as your freedoms are being eroded.


    Yes. We should accept that this is only until this is under control via the vaccines and certain short term measures. Nothing to be lost and everything to gain by waiting for now.


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    #4221
    M_Murphy57
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭M_Murphy57


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Yes. We should accept that this is only until this is under control via the vaccines and certain short term measures. Nothing to be lost and everything to gain by waiting for now.

    Like how the US and Israel got their populations vaccinated? Oh wait....


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    #4222
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,641 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    saabsaab wrote: »
    How do we know the false negatives either? People arriving without any tests still, from what you say, makes it worse. There is every reason to take these measures and more for a short time to come, it isn't forever.

    I don’t disagree with enforced quarantine for those who turn up without pcr testing.

    We know one of the “Dubai 2” had a false positive while in quarantine.

    I’ve since found out that at least 1 of the 10 positive tests relates to a staff member


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    #4223
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    M_Murphy57 wrote: »
    Like how the US and Israel got their populations vaccinated? Oh wait....


    ??


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    #4224
    M_Murphy57
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭M_Murphy57


    saabsaab wrote: »
    ??

    You said mhq is only until we get things under control with vaccines yet 2 countries that have vaccinated their population are on or about to go on the list.

    There is no sense or logic to this and no reason to believe its temporary.

    There is no criteria for what goes on or how long countries stay on, bar Donnelly checking Twitter every morning and seeing what countries the baying slobbering mob are screaming hysterically about that day.


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    #4225
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    M_Murphy57 wrote: »
    You said mhq is only until we get things under control with vaccines yet 2 countries that have vaccinated their population are on or about to go on the list.

    There is no sense or logic to this and no reason to believe its temporary.

    There is no criteria for what goes on or how long countries stay on, bar Donnelly checking Twitter every morning and seeing what countries the baying slobbering mob are screaming hysterically about that day.


    There is no perfect system but why do you think this is permanent? That doesn't make sense to me.


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    #4226
    M_Murphy57
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭M_Murphy57


    saabsaab wrote: »
    There is no perfect system but why do you think this is permanent? That doesn't make sense to me.


    Because Stephen Donnelly is a moron and this is about his ego not about safety.

    Extorting 2 grand from a vaccinated nurse with a negative test from a vaccinated country indicates he wont back down from this no matter how stupid he looks or how little good this is doing (and it's doing no good)

    I dont see him waking up and being smarter any time soon and nobody in govt seems to be trying to stop him.


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    #4227
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    No point in discussing individual hard cases. What we need is tighter controls.


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    #4228
    NSAman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭NSAman


    M_Murphy57 wrote: »
    You said mhq is only until we get things under control with vaccines yet 2 countries that have vaccinated their population are on or about to go on the list.

    There is no sense or logic to this and no reason to believe its temporary.

    There is no criteria for what goes on or how long countries stay on, bar Donnelly checking Twitter every morning and seeing what countries the baying slobbering mob are screaming hysterically about that day.

    What is the point in getting vaccinated for? Obviously, you have to take the precaution of waiting a few weeks for it to kick in, people who have been vaccinated and then having a negative per test and forcing them to MHQ is ridiculous.


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    #4229
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    faceman wrote: »
    That’s not entirely true. The 10 positive tests came from testing 413 inmates and 143 staff. Not all inmates arrived with pcr tests. The report did not divulge the breakout of the 10 nor did it indicate if it excludes false positives.

    So the positive rate is 1.7% in total in line with the average rate for cases linked to travel

    Meanwhile 400 people tested positive yesterday and won’t have enforced quarantine regardless of what variant they have.

    Is the penny dropping yet?


    Is it not a requirement? How on Earth can they board for here without it? Costs should be on the airlines who allowed this.


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    #4230
    Tazz T
    Registered Users Posts: 3,203 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    saabsaab wrote: »
    There is no perfect system but why do you think this is permanent? That doesn't make sense to me.

    One word: USC


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    #4231
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    I think scientists and doctors sometimes get blinded by their relatively narrow areas of expertise, and don't see the big picture at times. Ironically public health doctors are usually good at balancing health vs economic & other impacts. Anyone who argues that vaccinated people should go into MHQ is clearly in my view not considering the bigger picture, and there is absolutely no justification for it.


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