Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Valhallapt

Red Silurian wrote: »

That's very misleading... In the below article somebody came back from holidays and didn't restrict ​movements resulting in 56 individuals in ten households and a sports team contracting Covid-19. So technically less than 2% of the cases (the 1 man of the 56) were accounted as travel and the other 55 were recorded as community transmission - as were the cases that the other 55 passed on

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172407-covid-19-midwest/

Sounds more like 56 individuals did not follow social distancing rules to me. The first individual went to a house party - which no one should have attended.

NSAman

Red Silurian wrote: »

The problem isn't you, it's everybody who isn't vaccinated that could come in and spread the virus like wildfire that we don't want... And you know as well as I do that people will chance it

So you mean those of us who ARE vaccinated, who decide to go and see those parents who we haven't seen in 2 years are not the problem?

I think me going back to Ireland being vaccinated, with a negative PCR test has about as much chance of spreading it to a vaccinated parent, as them picking it up while shopping??

zebastein

Red Silurian wrote: »

That's very misleading... In the below article somebody came back from holidays and didn't restrict ​movements resulting in 56 individuals in ten households and a sports team contracting Covid-19. So technically less than 2% of the cases (the 1 man of the 56) were accounted as travel and the other 55 were recorded as community transmission - as were the cases that the other 55 passed on

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172407-covid-19-midwest/

And we are not sure either that people who are flagged as travel related are actually contaminated by their travel.
I go abroad for the weekend (Friday - Sunday), if I test positive the day I land, did I get infected abroad or in Ireland the week before.
If I get a negative test on arrival and a positive PCR test 5days later, is it travel related or community related.

There are misleading classifications in both groups.

munchkin_utd

Valhallapt wrote: »

Sounds more like 56 individuals did not follow social distancing rules to me. The first individual went to a house party - which no one should have attended.

That there is also not an example of a yank straight off the plane.

More like an irish based person who might make a living from not following the rules or giving a crap about their community, and doing the same both in Spain and on their return from a fortnight on the sesh

Red Silurian

Valhallapt wrote: »

Sounds more like 56 individuals did not follow social distancing rules to me. The first individual went to a house party - which no one should have attended.

Depends on the size of the house party, at certain times the govt (unwittingly) permitted 50 people to meet up, the ban on house visits didn't come in until after that article was released

But it doesn't detract from the point that the first individual was meant to isolate on his return, not attend a house party. In fact he was meant to not go abroad on holiday

Here's another interesting one of an outbreak on a plane

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40213163.html

Red Silurian

NSAman wrote: »

So you mean those of us who ARE vaccinated, who decide to go and see those parents who we haven't seen in 2 years are not the problem?

I think me going back to Ireland being vaccinated, with a negative PCR test has about as much chance of spreading it to a vaccinated parent, as them picking it up while shopping??

Yes, was that not obvious? Sorry I thought it was, also your negative PCR doesn't stop you picking it up

zebastein wrote: »

And we are not sure either that people who are flagged as travel related are actually contaminated by their travel.
I go abroad for the weekend (Friday - Sunday), if I test positive the day I land, did I get infected abroad or in Ireland the week before.
If I get a negative test on arrival and a positive PCR test 5days later, is it travel related or community related.

There are misleading classifications in both groups.

If you don't travel you are a positive case at home rather than abroad and you are infecting far fewer people and don't have to get on a plane back home after your weekend away as a positive case

carveone

I'm sure everyone knows this at this stage but both travellers from Israel have been released from quarantine on the grounds that:

Having regard to the substantially improved epidemiological situation in the states concerned, arrangements have been made on an exceptional basis for the small number of persons who have arrived in Ireland from any of these three states in recent days, and who have not been in any other designated state in the 14 days before their arrival in Ireland, to be permitted to leave mandatory hotel quarantine as soon as they wish.

Ah, the old "on an exceptional basis" line based on a "substantially improved situation" that presumably happened between tuesday and friday last week. And, in a complete coincidence, it now saves the government having to explain in court why Israel was on the list in the first place, that country not meeting the government's own criteria for being on the list, or having to explain why there's no policy with regards to vaccination other than Ryan saying:

... there is currently no streamlined process to ‘certify’ those who have been vaccinated or previously diagnosed with Covid-19 in a way that could allow them to skip quarantine.

Ah yes. And such policy will remain until someone like Intel decides that they'll have to close their plant here as a result and screaming and finger pointing will follow. Can't wait to be told that we're living way beyond our means and austerity is the only way to pay for us getting ahead of ourselves.

zebastein

Red Silurian wrote: »

Depends on the size of the house party, at certain times the govt (unwittingly) permitted 50 people to meet up, the ban on house visits didn't come in until after that article was released

But it doesn't detract from the point that the first individual was meant to isolate on his return, not attend a house party. In fact he was meant to not go abroad on holiday

Here's another interesting one of an outbreak on a plane

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40213163.html

Can we really evaluate a risk based on:
- an individual example
- a situation that was 10months ago with different restrictions (no PCR test before boarding)


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/10/15/study-risk-of-covid-19-transmission-on-planes-virtually-nonexistent-for-mask-wearers/?sh=6712f1bf787b




There is never 0 risk anywhere. What your example shows is that enforcing current restrictions (house parties, quarantine at home) would be more efficient in breaking the transmission chain than adding something complicated like the MHQ.

Red Silurian

zebastein wrote: »

Can we really evaluate a risk based on:
- an individual example
- a situation that was 10months ago with different restrictions (no PCR test before boarding)


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/10/15/study-risk-of-covid-19-transmission-on-planes-virtually-nonexistent-for-mask-wearers/?sh=6712f1bf787b




There is never 0 risk anywhere. What your example shows is that enforcing current restrictions (house parties, quarantine at home) would be more efficient in breaking the transmission chain than adding something complicated like the MHQ.

What it shows is that if the person had either not gone on holidays or quarantined for 14 days on returning it wouldn't have happened, the fact that it was 10 months ago (or 8 months ago in this case) means very little

We either stop people going abroad, logistically I'm not sure how we can do that, or make sure they're quarantined on their return or else keep everything in our own country closed

WHich one of the 3 would you prefer?

Valhallapt

FYI - Anyone wanting to go on holiday, easyJet have increased from frequencies out of Belfast on some sun destinations like the Algarve etc, prices are reasonable at the min. AerLingus have signalled they may also increase capacity out of Belfast later in the year.

zebastein

Red Silurian wrote: »

If you don't travel you are a positive case at home rather than abroad and you are infecting far fewer people and don't have to get on a plane back home after your weekend away as a positive case

You are right but this idea denies the fact that people need to travel. Fifty years ago, people would have all their lives in a 50km perimeter, but that is not the case anymore.
There are 500k people living in Ireland who are not Irish citizens. Add the Irish citizens that have family or any other business abroad. If only 1% of them have an essential reason to travel (legal, medical, funeral...), that is still thousands of people traveling.

is_that_so

FileNotFound wrote: »

Is it really trampling all over our rights, was international travel enshrined into the constitution? I did see other argue the concept of home quarantine was also unconstitutional?

I suppose in general the concept of limitation of freedoms is plain wrong and crosses a dangerous line. But is it fair that people come in and out of the country freely if they pose a risk to the people of the nation?

Even the opposition are not against this move, in fact they are all for, when i see pretty much the entire dail that love tearing each other down agree a move in general is good, I tend to think that maybe it has merit!

That's for courts to decide. If it's bad legislation they will do that. That risk is alleged. For example it's 10 v 750 at present, that's cases in hotels v walk-ins. Those in quarantine are also at risk from the bad behaviour of the rest of us when they come out.

As someone commented on the politics of this anyone could back it given the apparent public mood but it sets a very bad precedent.

munchkin_utd

is_that_so wrote: »

That's for courts to decide. If it's bad legislation they will do that. That risk is alleged. For example it's 10 v 750 at present, that's cases in hotels v walk-ins. Those in quarantine are also at risk from the bad behaviour of the rest of us when they come out.

As someone commented on the politics of this anyone could back it given the apparent public mood but it sets a very bad precedent.

its for the courts to decide but if the government conceeds before it gets to a verdict then they can protect their dodgy legislation / very dodgy "expert" advice

ffs, they categorised Israel as a high risk country and them with a fraction of the covid infections as Ireland and no issue with variants !! Do the "experts" just throw a dart at the map and list whatever country it hits ?

carveone

munchkin_utd wrote: »

its for the courts to decide but if the government conceeds before it gets to a verdict then they can protect their dodgy legislation / very dodgy "expert" advice

Which is referencing the quarantine challenge court case today, which resulted in: "No need for the case to proceed" (move on, nothing to see here):
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0412/1209289-coronavirus-quarantine-challenge/

Cymini Sectores

A colleague of mine who is a health care worker and should know better is traveling to a high risk country for his wedding. This is a reason for quarantine when back and not a valid reason to travel! While he is fully vaccinated with pfizer, it would be useless against variants. He has got the cash to spare but will be missing work while in quarantine, and has asked me to do some of his shifts. I am pretty conflicted and have thought of reporting him to HR before he travels.

Left for me, I'd rather the government shut down international travel especially people coming from the UK at least till the end of the year

Sono Topolino

carveone wrote: »

Which is referencing the quarantine challenge court case today, which resulted in: "No need for the case to proceed" (move on, nothing to see here):
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0412/1209289-coronavirus-quarantine-challenge/

The big problem with most challenges is that by the time they come before the court, the plaintiff most likely will have completed their quarantine period and the case will be moot.

zebastein

Red Silurian wrote: »

What it shows is that if the person had either not gone on holidays or quarantined for 14 days on returning it wouldn't have happened, the fact that it was 10 months ago (or 8 months ago in this case) means very little

We either stop people going abroad, logistically I'm not sure how we can do that, or make sure they're quarantined on their return or else keep everything in our own country closed

WHich one of the 3 would you prefer?

You make it sound like the travel is bringing waves of new cases that prevent the country from opening?

If you want the country to reopen, first eliminate the covid in the community. Offaly has been the county with the highest numbers for more than a month, maybe two. I don't believe that there are every week new people coming down a plane and bringing new cases to Offaly, so the virus keeps on spreading by local contacts.

If you have the list of all the covid 19 positive people, that you decide that you don't want to control what they do (they can quarantine at home, they have nothing to prove), then I don't see the reasons why people with a negative PCR test have to be monitored 24/7 for 12days.

If we were Australia, with close to 0 community cases, then you want to control travel, fair enough. If you do virtually nothing to break the transmission chain in the community, then be consistent with your travel rules

gw80

Cymini Sectores wrote: »

A colleague of mine who is a health care worker and should know better is traveling to a high risk country for his wedding. This is a reason for quarantine when back and not a valid reason to travel! While he is fully vaccinated with pfizer, it would be useless against variants. He has got the cash to spare but will be missing work while in quarantine, and has asked me to do some of his shifts. I am pretty conflicted and have thought of reporting him to HR before he travels.

Left for me, I'd rather the government shut down international travel especially people coming from the UK at least till the end of the year

Where does it say Pfizer is useless against variants?

Cymini Sectores

Cymini Sectores wrote: »

A colleague of mine who is a health care worker and should know better is traveling to a high risk country for his wedding. This is a reason for quarantine when back and not a valid reason to travel! While he is fully vaccinated with pfizer, it would be useless against variants. He has got the cash to spare but will be missing work while in quarantine, and has asked me to do some of his shifts. I am pretty conflicted and have thought of reporting him to HR before he travels.

Left for me, I'd rather the government shut down international travel especially people coming from the UK at least till the end of the year

You’re a healthcare worker and your view is that Pfizer is useless against variants? I call BS on this story

NSAman

Sono Topolino wrote: »

The big problem with most challenges is that by the time they come before the court, the plaintiff most likely will have completed their quarantine period and the case will be moot.

Just have a bank of lawyers at the airport..;)

Cynical thing to say, but it seems to be the case those that have legal reps frighten the ****e out of the system.

THese people posed little if any additional health risk, yet were quarantined.

Vaccinated, Negative PCR and still quarantined?

The whole thing is crazy....

Obviously the challenge won't go ahead (still don't understand as they were still detained).

To me it smacks of the system running scared of being challenged.

Jack1985

Cymini Sectores wrote: »

A colleague of mine who is a health care worker and should know better is traveling to a high risk country for his wedding. This is a reason for quarantine when back and not a valid reason to travel! While he is fully vaccinated with pfizer, it would be useless against variants. He has got the cash to spare but will be missing work while in quarantine, and has asked me to do some of his shifts. I am pretty conflicted and have thought of reporting him to HR before he travels.

Left for me, I'd rather the government shut down international travel especially people coming from the UK at least till the end of the year

If he's a healthcare saying that he is grossly ill-informed and I'm not sure his speciality but I wouldn't want him near me or anyone I know.

FileNotFound

Deleted User wrote: »

You’re a healthcare worker and your view is that Pfizer is useless against variants? I call BS on this story

I think the real issue is that we assume healthcare workers know anything about the virus and treatments.

Sure some specific ones will but the majority have no more of a clue than most.


Our company had to train healthcare staff on basic techniques at the start of this, not a clue about maintaining simple sterile environments.


It's a great thing to throw out as a line - listen to me - but means little in reality.

NSAman

NSAman wrote: »

Just have a bank of lawyers at the airport..;)

Cynical thing to say, but it seems to be the case those that have legal reps frighten the ****e out of the system.

THese people posed little if any additional health risk, yet were quarantined.

Vaccinated, Negative PCR and still quarantined?

The whole thing is crazy....

Obviously the challenge won't go ahead (still don't understand as they were still detained).

To me it smacks of the system running scared of being challenged.

The dubai 2 haven't been released. The challenge on their case is still proceeding

FileNotFound

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The dubai 2 haven't been released. The challenge on their case is still proceeding

Either win or loss in their case will be interesting, finally some clarity and maybe all the constitution experts can have a day off.

Cymini Sectores

Cymini Sectores wrote: »

A colleague of mine who is a health care worker and should know better is traveling to a high risk country for his wedding. This is a reason for quarantine when back and not a valid reason to travel! While he is fully vaccinated with pfizer, it would be useless against variants. He has got the cash to spare but will be missing work while in quarantine, and has asked me to do some of his shifts. I am pretty conflicted and have thought of reporting him to HR before he travels.

Left for me, I'd rather the government shut down international travel especially people coming from the UK at least till the end of the year

Reported him for what? Getting married? He's going to quarantine on return and is vaccinated.

And of they shut down international travel fully, how would transport workers operate? How would your ppe get in? The medicine you use?

If this was the thought process of my colleagues, I would look for a transfer because they are both asshole and incompetent

namloc1980

Cymini Sectores wrote: »

Left for me, I'd rather the government shut down international travel especially people coming from the UK at least till the end of the year

Ummmmm, you do realize there is a land border with the UK on this island?

smurfjed

Red Silurian wrote: »

How do you get a PCR test taken if you can't leave your quarantine location though?

I live in a different country, we have 6/14 isolation depending on the country we arrive from, this is tracked on a phone APP. You can make a PCR appointment from this same APP. 2 hours prior to the PCR, the APP will change your isolation status to permit travel. So the technology is available, unfortunately in ireland the will to use such technology is not there.

Valhallapt

Cymini Sectores wrote: »

A colleague of mine who is a health care worker and should know better is traveling to a high risk country for his wedding. This is a reason for quarantine when back and not a valid reason to travel! While he is fully vaccinated with pfizer, it would be useless against variants. He has got the cash to spare but will be missing work while in quarantine, and has asked me to do some of his shifts. I am pretty conflicted and have thought of reporting him to HR before he travels.

Left for me, I'd rather the government shut down international travel especially people coming from the UK at least till the end of the year

He is fully vaccinated.

How do you propose we end lockdown? Sounds like you never want this misery to end.

Father Hernandez

Cymini Sectores wrote: »

A colleague of mine who is a health care worker and should know better is traveling to a high risk country for his wedding. This is a reason for quarantine when back and not a valid reason to travel! While he is fully vaccinated with pfizer, it would be useless against variants. He has got the cash to spare but will be missing work while in quarantine, and has asked me to do some of his shifts. I am pretty conflicted and have thought of reporting him to HR before he travels.

Left for me, I'd rather the government shut down international travel especially people coming from the UK at least till the end of the year

Christ this is the worst thing I've read all day.

Reporting him to HR, what a rat thing to do.

This past year has brought out the worst in people.

zebastein

What would HR do? Does your employer decide what you do during your time off?