Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Red Silurian

is_that_so wrote: »

And yet it does draw attention to the very crude and increasingly ill thought out method of this being applied.

Exactly, forcing students on Erasmus during a pandemic completely beggars belief

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

Exactly, forcing students on Erasmus during a pandemic completely beggars belief

Am i correct in my understanding that they were told that if they didn't go on their placement, then they would forfeit that portion of their grading (which was substantial)? If that is true, there shouldn't even be a debate about who should pay

is_that_so

Red Silurian wrote: »

Exactly, forcing students on Erasmus during a pandemic completely beggars belief

It wasn't a consideration when they went and TBH education for the young trumps many things. There is plenty to go wrong when you are dealing with individuals who should not be in the criminal justice system.

faceman

But what about the variants of con.... nevermind.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/update-1-british-variant-of-covid-19-not-as-severe-as-feared-the-lancet-1110397.html

joseywhales

Red Silurian wrote: »

the vaccines will be a great tool when we get close to herd immunity in 10 years time

So do you propose mhq for ten years then? Do you imagine the country would financially survive ten years of almost no movement of people?

bombs away

Marine Layer wrote: »

Its a public health measure
Its proper order that the cost of it is paid for erasmus student
Its meant to.benefit us all
Covid is rampant in France so its reasonable to assume its a source of new variants

Proper order? Maybe the state should pay for everyone coming in so if it's of benefit to us all. Jesus

And on the point of VAC's, there will always be VAC's with regards to Covid. It's not going to go away when we get herd immunity. It's with us forever now and will evolve as we do. Every scientist agrees that we'll have yearly Covid seasons so the threat of VAC's will always be there. We going to use MHQ's every frigging winter because we're afraid of the next variant? The f***ing mass panic this is causing contributed to in a large part by the media is hilarious.

Dempo1

faceman wrote: »

I agree with what you’re saying but strongly disagree with calling Erasmus student self entitled

Listening to their whinging on the Today with claire Byrne show yesterday explained to me what cohort of student goes on these trips, I somehow doubt students from lower income families go on these holidays masked as study trips, regardless this scheme actually happening during a pandemic is just appalling. Mummy & Daddy should be paying for quarantine not the tax payer.

VeryWise

Marine Layer wrote: »

Its a public health measure
Its proper order that the cost of it is paid for erasmus student
Its meant to.benefit us all
Covid is rampant in France so its reasonable to assume its a source of new variants

If that was the true rationale for MHQ then it would be impossible to exempt athletes. If the rugby players can be exempt then the students should be too. It’s either too dangerous or it’s not.

Who would have thought one person could just decide some people get interned for two weeks, some don’t, some pay, some don’t. No published criteria for exemption or who pays. This is a level of power held by an individual Minister to make decisions that is not seen in a democracy.

I saw on another thread a suggestion that people should be randomly tested and those with positive results quarantined, in fairness that is probably more sensible than MHQ but shows how ridiculous the system is.

Personally I don’t know that I want to live in a country where people can be detained to appease public opinion based on the PR judgement of one individual.

faceman

Dempo1 wrote: »

Listening to their whinging on the Today with claire Byrne show yesterday explained to me what cohort of student goes on these trips, I somehow doubt students from lower income families go on these holidays masked as study trips, regardless this scheme actually happening during a pandemic is just appalling. Mummy & Daddy should be paying for quarantine not the tax payer.

Jaysus man. Little bit of begrudgery there

mmclo

VeryWise wrote: »

It’s either too dangerous or it’s not.

Who would have thought one person could just decide some people get interned for two weeks, some don’t, some pay, some don’t. No published criteria for exemption or who pays. This is a level of power held by an individual Minister to make decisions that is not seen in a democracy.

This is the essence of the constitutional challenge and it is a strong one, if the Government just left well enough alone they might prevail but chopping and changing means it can't be a fair, equal and rules based law

Interesting we haven't heard much more about golfers and rugby players yet

normanoffside

Dempo1 wrote: »

Listening to their whinging on the Today with claire Byrne show yesterday explained to me what cohort of student goes on these trips, I somehow doubt students from lower income families go on these holidays masked as study trips, regardless this scheme actually happening during a pandemic is just appalling. Mummy & Daddy should be paying for quarantine not the tax payer.

For anyone studying a language as part of their degree; Erasmus is compulsory and counts as 25% of their total degree. The only option to not doing it is taking a year out and doing the placement the following year, but there are no guarantees to the pandemic being over next year either.
Do you expect these students to out their university degrees and lives permanently on hold until you deem it ok for them to go abroad for study?

Red Silurian

Deleted User wrote: »

Am i correct in my understanding that they were told that if they didn't go on their placement, then they would forfeit that portion of their grading (which was substantial)? If that is true, there shouldn't even be a debate about who should pay

Your understanding is correct... The real question is what benefit they got from leaving one locked down country where they were studying remotely to go to another locked down country to study remotely - but in fairness you can't blame that one on the students and they certainly shouldn't be paying for their MHQ no more than the NZ rugby team should have paid for theirs at the end of the Tri-Nations last year

normanoffside wrote: »

For anyone studying a language as part of their degree; Erasmus is compulsory and counts as 25% of their total degree. The only option to not doing it is taking a year out and doing the placement the following year, but there are no guarantees to the pandemic being over next year either.
Do you expect these students to out their university degrees and lives permanently on hold until you deem it ok for them to go abroad for study?

I would expect the Universities to have made an exemption to the Erasmus requirement during the pandemic

josip

And another one.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0412/1209528-hotel-quarantine-court/

All of the challenges are now starting to take up a lot of valuable court time.

Red Silurian

josip wrote: »

And another one.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0412/1209528-hotel-quarantine-court/

All of the challenges are now starting to take up a lot of valuable court time.

Not at all, this is a new system and it is only right that it gets challenged in the courts, it's what our courts are there for. If it turns out that there is a flaw in the system isn't it better we find out as early as possible

FileNotFound

Red Silurian wrote: »

Not at all, this is a new system and it is only right that it gets challenged in the courts, it's what our courts are there for. If it turns out that there is a flaw in the system isn't it better we find out as early as possible

Indeed, hopefully the initial cases will pretty much end the discussion and we can all get on with it.

Either way at this stage - sick of hearing non stop demand for quarantine and then as soon as its in non stop demand it end.

The whole thing is like a broken record.

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

So do you propose mhq for ten years then? Do you imagine the country would financially survive ten years of almost no movement of people?

See, the thing to remember is that these people don't want internment for people who get to travel abroad to study out of concern for public health. It's out of jealousy.

KanyeSouthEast

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

Maybe or maybe not but they also may have been at a house party in Woodies in Costa coffee who knows!

Wait, there's a house party in a woodies which is entirely housed inside a Costa coffee?

Red Silurian

joseywhales wrote: »

So do you propose mhq for ten years then? Do you imagine the country would financially survive ten years of almost no movement of people?

What I suggested was that it would take 10 years for us all to be vaccinated at the current rate, hopefully I'm being pessimistic with that timescale. There are many ways in which MHQ can end, full vaccination is one of them, others such as a global drop in cases or as countries get the virus under control we could open to them one by one

Most likely it will end in a few months time when the Taoiseach will stand before the nation and tell us his half-arsed attempt isn't working

joseywhales

Red Silurian wrote: »

What I suggested was that it would take 10 years for us all to be vaccinated at the current rate, hopefully I'm being pessimistic with that timescale. There are many ways in which MHQ can end, full vaccination is one of them, others such as a global drop in cases or as countries get the virus under control we could open to them one by one

Most likely it will end in a few months time when the Taoiseach will stand before the nation and tell us his half-arsed attempt isn't working

The problem is that "countries get virus under control" is a subjective measure, the government need objective targets otherwise they are actually taking undemocratic power, whereby internment of passengers is based on the whims of the minister. All he has to do is state clearly what the objective criteria will be to end mhq for a country.

josip

Red Silurian wrote: »

Not at all, this is a new system and it is only right that it gets challenged in the courts, it's what our courts are there for. If it turns out that there is a flaw in the system isn't it better we find out as early as possible

But the govt are not allowing it to get challenged in courts.
They've now also backed down on this case and she is free to leave today with a negative test.
They know that it's bad law.

munchkin_utd

Red Silurian wrote: »

What I suggested was that it would take 10 years for us all to be vaccinated at the current rate

yep, but now there'll be about 1 million doses delivered in the next month whereas there was 1 million doses to now in total since before christmas , and therell be more again next month, plus some of the supply will be J+J vaccines which are only 1 shot so once people get that then they arent dipping into future deliveries to get their second shot. The deliveries to Ireland and the EU are about to balloon way beyond what we saw in the past months.

not wanting to get a little off topic, but its necessary. The media in Ireland is VERY anglo-saxon media centric. This means the quarantine in NZ and AUS is massive news, this means the progress in the UK is massive news, as is whats happening in the USA. The UK media also REALLY focused on the AZ vaccine as that's the one they are relying on to get the job done, but for EU countries thats not so relevant.

But, in news almost completely missed out on by the irish media, a new additional plant for the Pfizer/ Biontech vaccine went online in Marburg Germany in the past weeks which has the capacity of a billion doses a year and will supply about 250 million doses to the Eu already before the end of the summer, and thats on top of whats already there in Germany Belgium and Netherlands which are now fully operational (finally!)

That Marburg plant alone can supply all the Pfizer vaccine and later tweaked anti-variant booster jabs to the EU so all taken together its not looking that bad

OF course, you dont get this from NPHET because either they are clueless or dont want to give people hope (or both combined)

Red Silurian

joseywhales wrote: »

The problem is that "countries get virus under control" is a subjective measure, the government need objective targets otherwise they are actually taking undemocratic power, whereby internment of passengers is based on the whims of the minister. All he has to do is state clearly what the objective criteria will be to end mhq for a country.

Data is definitely the way to go

While they're at it they could give us figures such as what hospital and case numbers need to be to relax specific lockdown measures within the country as well.

I saw a news report on the telly last weekend about a city in California called "Monterey" they were moving from an orange to red level of restrictions because the incidence rate and the hospital attendance numbers were all above a particular figure and the vaccination numbers were below a particular figure...

Valhallapt

munchkin_utd wrote: »

yep, but now there'll be about 1 million doses delivered in the next month whereas there was 1 million doses to now in total since before christmas , and therell be more again next month, plus some of the supply will be J+J vaccines which are only 1 shot so once people get that then they arent dipping into future deliveries to get their second shot. The deliveries to Ireland and the EU are about to balloon way beyond what we saw in the past months.

not wanting to get a little off topic, but its necessary. The media in Ireland is VERY anglo-saxon media centric. This means the quarantine in NZ and AUS is massive news, this means the progress in the UK is massive news, as is whats happening in the USA. The UK media also REALLY focused on the AZ vaccine as that's the one they are relying on to get the job done, but for EU countries thats not so relevant.

But, in news almost completely missed out on by the irish media, a new additional plant for the Pfizer/ Biontech vaccine went online in Marburg Germany in the past weeks which has the capacity of a billion doses a year and will supply about 250 million doses to the Eu already before the end of the summer, and thats on top of whats already there in Germany Belgium and Netherlands which are now fully operational (finally!)

That Marburg plant alone can supply all the Pfizer vaccine and later tweaked anti-variant booster jabs to the EU so all taken together its not looking that bad

OF course, you dont get this from NPHET because either they are clueless or dont want to give people hope (or both combined)

Not dragging it off topic at all, a very well informed post, thanks!

Red Silurian

munchkin_utd wrote: »

yep, but now there'll be about 1 million doses delivered in the next month whereas there was 1 million doses to now in total since before christmas , and therell be more again next month, plus some of the supply will be J+J vaccines which are only 1 shot so once people get that then they arent dipping into future deliveries to get their second shot. The deliveries to Ireland and the EU are about to balloon way beyond what we saw in the past months.

not wanting to get a little off topic, but its necessary. The media in Ireland is VERY anglo-saxon media centric. This means the quarantine in NZ and AUS is massive news, this means the progress in the UK is massive news, as is whats happening in the USA. The UK media also REALLY focused on the AZ vaccine as that's the one they are relying on to get the job done, but for EU countries thats not so relevant.

But, in news almost completely missed out on by the irish media, a new additional plant for the Pfizer/ Biontech vaccine went online in Marburg Germany in the past weeks which has the capacity of a billion doses a year and will supply about 250 million doses to the Eu already before the end of the summer, and thats on top of whats already there in Germany Belgium and Netherlands which are now fully operational (finally!)

That Marburg plant alone can supply all the Pfizer vaccine and later tweaked anti-variant booster jabs to the EU so all taken together its not looking that bad

OF course, you dont get this from NPHET because either they are clueless or dont want to give people hope (or both combined)

I've been thinking since the initial stop on our usage of the AZ vaccine that it smelled of politics. If Biontech have a plant moving in Marburg that only strengthens my belief!

kirving

On one hand, all we hear is numbers (2km, 5km 20km, daily cases, X number of people from Y number of households, Z number of people allowed into a shop, Q number of people arriving into the country last week....)

But when it comes to using apply similar criteria (ie: data) to justify government decisions - nothing. It really isn't a lot to ask IMO, but if the government were to use data to make those same decisions, it would be completely impossible to talk their way out of ever more ridiculous contradictions.

In my job, I don't get away with woolly language like "concern", "worrisome trends" and "hopeful".

Personally, MHQ is not my preferred option for host of reasons.

But if that's the plan, then justify it, stick to it, and legally enforce it under any and all circumstances for absolutely everybody, pilots and truck drivers included.

Changing definitions and goalposts every single day totally undermines the goal of MHQ and justifiable puts the public opinion against it.

normanoffside

Red Silurian wrote: »

I would expect the Universities to have made an exemption to the Erasmus requirement during the pandemic

How could they get an adequate degree in French if they haven't even been to France to practise and polish up their language skills?

What you propose is disadvantaging our future workforce and those students future careers from minimal gain. The impact on the students is disproportionate to any perceived risks of flying.

Throwaway89

faceman wrote: »

Never mind the hard done by Erasmus students. Seems elite sportspeople have it so much worse the government has dropped their requirement to quarantine full stop. Poor things.

Wrong - please get your facts right before posting.

Roberto Lopez (Shamrock Rovers) had to spend 2wks in quarantine following international duty with cape verde. Missing 2x games for Rovers. Two appeals were lodged, and both declined.

Before you jump LoI is not an elite sport.....etc...etc...it's worth noting that when sports returned after xmas the LoI was specified as elite and GAA wasn't.

Where'd you see elite sports people don't have to quarantine?

Red Silurian

normanoffside wrote: »

How could they get an adequate degree in French if they haven't even been to France to practise and polish up their language skills?

What you propose is disadvantaging our future workforce and those students future careers from minimal gain. The impact on the students is disproportionate to any perceived risks of flying.

Makes sense if they are out socialising with french people, going in to lectures and dining in the restaurants but there's only so much they can learn from the bi-weekly trip to the supermarket

a_squirrelman

Throwaway89 wrote: »

Wrong - please get your facts right before posting.

Roberto Lopez (Shamrock Rovers) had to spend 2wks in quarantine following international duty with cape verde. Missing 2x games for Rovers. Two appeals were lodged, and both declined.

Before you jump LoI is not an elite sport.....etc...etc...it's worth noting that when sports returned after xmas the LoI was specified as elite and GAA wasn't.

Where'd you see elite sports people don't have to quarantine?

Well I'm guessing it's related to the possible exemption for the rugby players.

NSAman

josip wrote: »

And another one.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0412/1209528-hotel-quarantine-court/

All of the challenges are now starting to take up a lot of valuable court time.

“He noted however, that some hotels do not consider the day a person arrives to be Day 1 and there may be a dispute about whether or not today is Day 10.”

“He acknowledged the urgency of the case and adjourned it until tomorrow morning.”

I had to laugh at these comments...