Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Jack1985

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The airlines don't issue visas. And the airlines had no problem refusing boarding for turning up with minor errors in documentation so they'll have no problem asking for the MHQ booking reference at check-in.

They didn't state that they did issue visas. Airlines have been dealing with visas for many years.

There's a barrier to policing this that the DOT said as much this evening, MHQ documentation isn't verifiable through a central system, give me Adobe and I'll have an MHQ booking for tomorrow.

Airlines operate from multiple airports with multiple handlers who handle multiple airlines to multiple countries.

Very hard to police.

The Nutty M

Jack1985 wrote: »

The DoT said this evening very little could be done to police this. For obvious reasons to most.

That's a bit weird to say the documentation can not be checked at check-in.
As an outgoing passenger with KLM I would not have been able to board the plane without a PCR test within 72 hours of boarding and an antigen test taken within 4 hours of boarding. Both test results were checked at the check-in desk. No documents equals no check-in. So if KLM can do it for its own country,it should not be too much of an ask for airlines flying into Ireland to check documents.
And don't take this as me being pro MHQ,I'm exactly the opposite. I think it's a pure thick idea to have MHQ for European countries. But it is there and the rules have to be lived by. There has to be some repercussions for travel company's to land people on the doorstep of a country with no valid documentation.

Jack1985

The Nutty M wrote: »

That's a bit weird to say the documentation can not be checked at check-in.
As an outgoing passenger with KLM I would not have been able to board the plane without a PCR test within 72 hours of boarding and an antigen test taken within 4 hours of boarding. Both test results were checked at the check-in desk. No documents equals no check-in. So if KLM can do it for its own country,it should not be too much of an ask for airlines flying into Ireland to check documents.
And don't take this as me being pro MHQ,I'm exactly the opposite. I think it's a pure thick idea to have MHQ for European countries. But it is there and the rules have to be lived by. There has to be some repercussions for travel company's to land people on the doorstep of a country with no valid documentation.

There is no issue with checking documentation, airlines are required to do that. The problem is verifying it (certain documentation/covid-era) - The Digital Green Cert will alleviate A LOT of these issues and will make it a lot easier for everyone. This is what the DoT were referring to by hard to police.

For example in relation to verfication, I know in the UK they specified for some countries where neg-PCR tests were to be authorised from.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

There's nowhere to put you, so yes the border is closed. I don't know what happens if you just turn up. I'm assuming it is chaos.

I’m sure it’s going to happen over the next few days, given the volume of walk-ins to date. Going to be fascinating to see what happens and how it is reported. I’m sure it will involve a prolonged stay in the airport, probably in an immigration interrogation (sorry, interview) room. And then they’ll have to find a hotel I guess. There really is no option

Red Silurian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m sure it’s going to happen over the next few days, given the volume of walk-ins to date. Going to be fascinating to see what happens and how it is reported. I’m sure it will involve a prolonged stay in the airport, probably in an immigration interrogation (sorry, interview). And then they’ll have to find a hotel I guess. There really is no option

You can't even book a flight to NZ or Australia without having a booking code for your hotel quarantine

A little bit more difficult to implement here with the open border with the north but we do pay our politicians very well to figure these things out

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The airlines don't issue visas. And the airlines had no problem refusing boarding for turning up with minor errors in documentation so they'll have no problem asking for the MHQ booking reference at check-in.

Source?
Where is that written in their conditions of carriage or legislation which travel organisers must abide by?

Based on the law they have obligations to inform and to check if PCR tests have been carried out, not for Mandatory Hotel Quarantine.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2021/si/135/made/en/print

Do you not expect to be challenged on this stuff?

The Nutty M

Jack1985 wrote: »

There is no issue with checking documentation, airlines are required to do that. The problem is verifying it (certain documentation/covid-era) - The Digital Green Cert will alleviate A LOT of these issues and will make it a lot easier for everyone. This is what the DoT were referring to by hard to police.

For example in relation to verification, I know in the UK they specified for some countries where neg-PCR tests were to be authorised from.

I didn't see the verification statement,only the check. And that to me is a fair statement to make to check. But as you say, verification is a different story.
My missus was flying last month and got stopped before check-in because the girl behind the desk wanted the test cert signed by the person who carried out the test. And there again lies a problem, was the girl doing her job or giving her own interpretation on how a test cert should be.

joseywhales

I mean what do they legally do, "must allow citizen entry","must detain in mhq", "no room for detention", as a police officer I think I would just have an aneurysm and collapse.

Jack1985

The Nutty M wrote: »

I didn't see the verification statement,only the check. And that to me is a fair statement to make to check. But as you say, verification is a different story.
My missus was flying last month and got stopped before check-in because the girl behind the desk wanted the test cert signed by the person who carried out the test. And there again lies a problem, was the girl doing her job or giving her own interpretation on how a test cert should be.

Yep, it's painful for everyone concerned and each country having different policies makes it a mess, a centralised EU approach can't arrive quick enough.

hmmm

If they start pushing this back on airlines (or fining them) the airlines will simply stop flying to Ireland. And then, despite what SF think, we are beginning to see very real damage to a country which is so reliant on international trade and connectivity.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

If they start pushing this back on airlines (or fining them) the airlines will simply stop flying to Ireland. And then, despite what SF think, we are beginning to see very real damage to a country which is so reliant on international trade and connectivity.

Obligations of Airlines are low.
It isn't in the legislation despite what MrMusician18 would have you believe.

Right of Return is a basic right recognised internationally.
If you as an Irish Citizen turn up at an Irish airport or port they can't turn you away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

Free at last!



https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0413/1209727-niamh-mulreany-kirstie-mcgrath/

But the Gardai that dealt with them are still waiting their second tests

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Obligations of Airlines are low.
It isn't in the legislation despite what MrMusician18 would have you believe.

Right of Return is a basic right recognised internationally.
If you as an Irish Citizen turn up at an Irish airport or port they can't turn you away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

While I agree, it doesn't apply to tourists being delayed. It does to displaced person's

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

While I agree, it doesn't apply to tourists being delayed. It does to displaced person's

Since when did a Tourist stop being a Human with basic human rights?

josip

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

But the Gardai that dealt with them are still waiting their second tests

Did the Dubai 2 test positive at some stage?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Since when did a Tourist stop being a Human with basic human rights?

Not really how it works considering it's a right as defined by the united nations in regards human displacement.

josip wrote: »

Did the Dubai 2 test positive at some stage?

indeed. Course the mother then declared it a false positive and people just blindly believed her.

josip

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

indeed. Course the mother then declared it a false positive and people just blindly believed her.

If someone tests positive on entering MHQ, could they still be let out on day 10, even with a negative test ?
Many are postulating that is the reason they were let out, although I haven't seen it reported as such anywhere.

josip

josip wrote: »

If someone tests positive on entering MHQ, could they still be let out on day 10, even with a negative test ?
Many are postulating that is the reason they were let out, although I haven't seen it reported as such anywhere.

No idea how it works inside the facilities but they only went in on the 4th I think so the days must e counted from the 2nd, when they landed and would have entered the mhq facility originally.

That would make the 13th the release day I think 🀔

Jack1985

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

indeed. Course the mother then declared it a false positive and people just blindly believed her.

Sorry that's actually not the case. The Indepedent confirmed it was a false-positive.

https://www.independent.ie/news/covid-tests-on-two-mothers-who-travelled-to-dubai-have-returned-negative-results-40281331.html

If you test positive in MHQ your stay increases from 10 to 20 to days. They were both negative.

faceman

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Not really how it works considering it's a right as defined by the united nations in regards human displacement.



indeed. Course the mother then declared it a false positive and people just blindly believed her.

Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story Niner

https://www.independent.ie/news/covid-tests-on-two-mothers-who-travelled-to-dubai-have-returned-negative-results-40281331.html

is_that_so

Jack1985 wrote: »

Yep, it's painful for everyone concerned and each country having different policies makes it a mess, a centralised EU approach can't arrive quick enough.

The EU have no competency here, it's up to individual countries and we are the only ones doing it. Not sure quite what you're angling for here TBH. but it looks very like a permanent plan. Bear in mind that the hotel regime has produced 10 positive cases so far.

Alast

is_that_so wrote: »

The EU have no competency here, it's up to individual countries and we are the only ones doing it. Not sure quite what you're angling for here TBH. but it looks very like a permanent plan. Bear in mind that the hotel regime has produced 10 positive cases so far.

10 cases over 3(?) weeks vs 400+ cases every day in the "wild"

is_that_so

Alast wrote: »

10 cases over 3(?) weeks vs 400+ cases every day in the "wild"

Indeed and those in quarantine could be at risk when they leave. There are skewed priorities at work but legislation will pass very easily when there are no dissenting voices against it.

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Not really how it works considering it's a right as defined by the united nations in regards human displacement.

When faced with inconvenient information like "right to return" you lie and misrepresent.

Feria40

There is a poll on the Journal this morning asking if the government should cap the number of arrivals into the country.

Unbelievably 65% say yes.

I don't know what so say

a_squirrelman

Feria40 wrote: »

There is a poll on the Journal this morning asking if the government should cap the number of arrivals into the country.

Unbelievably 65% say yes.

I don't know what so say

People have totally lost their minds.

Beechwoodspark

a_squirrelman wrote: »

People have totally lost their minds.

People just want the virus under control

If that’s losing our minds, well, maybe it’s warranted at this stage

muddypuppy

Feria40 wrote: »

There is a poll on the Journal this morning asking if the government should cap the number of arrivals into the country.

Unbelievably 65% say yes.

I don't know what so say

There is already a cap in place. They might not call it a cap, but airlines are not supposed to let you board without a MHQ reservation, so the cap is how many rooms are left.

Economics101

People will always jump agree with nice-sounding but fundamentally daft and unimplementable proposals. They never think of all the legal, logistical and other aspects.

Lmkrnr

People who want to travel need to fight back. Closing the borders somewhat is a year to late. The government got it wrong, spectacularly wrong. Now they are making it up as they go along using Nephet as the shield.