Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

mohawk

mohawk wrote: »

We share a land border with the UK. Thousands cross the border daily for work/Education etc. I am not so naive to think we can have MHQ for people in the UK.

I am just pointing out that I can see a logic in reducing travel into the state until there are more people vaccinated. I can see the flaws in the current MHQ system and it probably came a year too late.

I don’t disagree with you. I think that ongoing mitigation measures at the border are appropriate, with the acknowledgment that it is risk mitigation and not ZC.

So visa bans from certain counties (eg Brazil), periodic MHQ from countries going through a hard time (eg India - which isn’t on right now which seems crazy), PCR tests and also upon arrival like in the UK. Maybe antigen testing has a role too. But also, allowances for vaccinated people, once that infrastructure is in place to validate certificates.

Plus better domestic test and trace and surge testing

Get things moving, within clear parameters to reduce the biggest risks, while being pragmatic about us being an open island, from an economic and familial perspective

Red Silurian

Blut2 wrote: »

Travel had no impact on the 'R' rate, that claim is very easily dis-proven nonsense:



Throughout this year travel has hovered at around 0.5% of covid cases in Ireland in any two week period. Thats a snapshot of one two week period, but you can check the rest and see the same.

Even before mandatory PCR tests on arrival, and before mandatory hotel quarantine, travel was responsible for almost no corona cases in Ireland.

What happened to those 26 imported cases in that 2 week period though? How many of those 26 people went out and socialised with others instead of quarantining?

Jack1985

Red Silurian wrote: »

What happened to those 26 imported cases in that 2 week period though? How many of those 26 people went out and socialised with others instead of quarantining?

Where abouts are you assuming they are socialising? In a Level 5 lockdown?

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

What happened to those 26 imported cases in that 2 week period though? How many of those 26 people went out and socialised with others instead of quarantining?

You are completely ignoring the point.
Someone who isn't just after coming off a plane is just as much a risk of being a super-spreader but you want to single them out.

Red Silurian

Jack1985 wrote: »

Where abouts are you assuming they are socialising? In a Level 5 lockdown?

Work, meeting up with friends, attending a house party, the things they shouldn't be doing

Deleted User wrote: »

You are completely ignoring the point.
Someone who isn't just after coming off a plane is just as much a risk of being a super-spreader but you want to single them out.

These are people blatantly ignoring the 5km travel limit, they are probably more likely than anybody else to ignore the "stay at home if you're positive" rule as well

caveat emptor

Blut2 wrote: »

Travel had no impact on the 'R' rate, that claim is very easily dis-proven nonsense:


Throughout this year travel has hovered at around 0.5% of covid cases in Ireland in any two week period. Thats a snapshot of one two week period, but you can check the rest and see the same.

Even before mandatory PCR tests on arrival, and before mandatory hotel quarantine, travel was responsible for almost no corona cases in Ireland.

Yeah because we didn't properly contact trace.

The south african variant of concern is in the UK. Between the 5 January 2021 to 7 March 2021, they had 204 cases of it.

50% of these cases were travel related. Now as time goes by and it begins to spread throughout the population that percentage will drop. Doesn't mean that it isn't travel that seeded it. I'd trust that data more that our pinky promise contact tracing.

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

These are people blatantly ignoring the 5km travel limit, they are probably more likely than anybody else to ignore the "stay at home if you're positive" rule as well

How can you ignore a 5km travel limit when you don't have a residence in the country.
...and 5km is no longer in force. it is the limits of your county now.

Red Silurian

Deleted User wrote: »

How can you ignore a 5km travel limit when you don't have a residence in the country.
...and 5km is no longer in force. it is the limits of your county now.

I was making reference to the above 20/02 to 05/03 details

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

I was making reference to the above 20/02 to 05/03 details

We are in April now and you are cheering on the destruction of the Irish economy through continued lockdown.

Alast

Red Silurian wrote: »

Work, meeting up with friends, attending a house party, the things they shouldn't be doing



These are people blatantly ignoring the 5km travel limit, they are probably more likely than anybody else to ignore the "stay at home if you're positive" rule as well

Do you really think tourists are coming into Ireland in droves and go sightseeing? Everything is closed.

I would say most, if not all, people arriving in Ireland are Irish citizens/residents, coming home.

I do not see why they would be more likely to ignore rules compared to the average Irish resident.

joseywhales

Feria40 wrote: »

There is a poll on the Journal this morning asking if the government should cap the number of arrivals into the country.

Unbelievably 65% say yes.

I don't know what so say

Listen we were happy to send unmarried mother and babies off to be abused and "taken care of" for decades, don't doubt this country's ability to turn a blind eye to inconveniences.

Does Aer Lingus continue its direct transatlantic routes now? Or does the Irish government have to subsidise it to keep them open?

hotmail.com

It seems like we're about to go into a weekend of chaos with possibly hundreds of people unable to go to the internment camps because they are full and then what!?

Hundreds will be released and the system will be undermined yet again.

Red Silurian

Alast wrote: »

Do you really think tourists are coming into Ireland in droves and go sightseeing? Everything is closed.

I would say most, if not all, people arriving in Ireland are Irish citizens/residents, coming home.

I do not see why they would be more likely to ignore rules compared to the average Irish resident.

Tourism works both ways, do you think 10,000 Irish came back from the canaries after dental appointments?

Blut2

Red Silurian wrote: »

What happened to those 26 imported cases in that 2 week period though? How many of those 26 people went out and socialised with others instead of quarantining?

What makes those 26 people any more likely to go out and socialize with others instead of quarantining at home than the 8,204 positive domestic cases in that 2 week period? All of whom had no limitations on their movements imposed, after testing positive here in Ireland?

Approx 99.5% of cases this year have been spread domestically. Which means to claim that travel is responsible for a significant increase in the 'R' number, as the poster I was replying to did, is just blatantly statistically untrue.

PuddingBreath

Blut2 wrote: »

What makes those 26 people any more likely to go out and socialize with others instead of quarantining at home than the 8,204 positive domestic cases in that 2 week period? All of whom had no limitations on their movements imposed, after testing positive here in Ireland?

Approx 99.5% of cases this year have been spread domestically. Which means to claim that travel is responsible for a significant increase in the 'R' number, as the poster I was replying to did, is just blatantly statistically untrue.

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

Red Silurian

Blut2 wrote: »

What makes those 26 people any more likely to go out and socialize with others instead of quarantining at home than the 8,204 positive domestic cases in that 2 week period?

They broke the law once by going abroad, I don't see why they'd bother following a home quarantine law

Blut2 wrote: »

All of whom had no limitations on their movements imposed, after testing positive here in Ireland?

This is exactly my point, at the time there was a 5km limit on travel from your home

PuddingBreath wrote: »

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

There was a wind blowing from the east in November, could that have been the cause of the British variant?

josip

PuddingBreath wrote: »

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

Yes, let's travel back in time and change things.

Blut2

PuddingBreath wrote: »

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

How would you have proposed to have kept them out, when we have a land border with Northern Ireland that 60,000 people cross every day, that we can't practically, legally, or politically close? Dublin airport has had about 1000 arrivals a day on average this year, so its about 1/60th as likely a source of variants as the border with N.I.

Red Silurian wrote: »

They broke the law once by going abroad, I don't see why they'd bother following a home quarantine law

This is exactly my point, at the time there was a 5km limit on travel from your home

What law do you think you're referring to? There was no law against arriving into the country (and there still isn't for that matter). Nobody arriving in Dublin airport broke any law. Irish citizens (and by extension EU ones) have always been fully legally entitled to enter Ireland, its a fairly fundamental element of our constitutional rights.

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

They broke the law once by going abroad, I don't see why they'd bother following a home quarantine law

Did they? I travelled. I didnt break the law. Travelling again in May and again not in breach of any law.

Red Silurian wrote: »

This is exactly my point, at the time there was a 5km limit on travel from your home

No, there wasnt. You have been told this before. You have been shown the law. You have been quoted the law. Why do you continue with this line?

Red Silurian wrote: »

There was a wind blowing from the east in November, could that have been the cause of the British variant?

No but someone that lives in Donegal and works in Northern Ireland could have been.

PuddingBreath

PuddingBreath wrote: »

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

Transport staff driving food, PPE and medicine in from mainland europe.

munchkin_utd

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No but someone that lives in Donegal and works in Northern Ireland could have been.

you mean the UK variant came from the UK, aka Northern Ireland?

nope, thats impossible !! Had to be a spanish sailor!

MOH

Blut2 wrote: »

Travel had no impact on the 'R' rate, that claim is very easily dis-proven nonsense:



Throughout this year travel has hovered at around 0.5% of covid cases in Ireland in any two week period. Thats a snapshot of one two week period, but you can check the rest and see the same.

Even before mandatory PCR tests on arrival, and before mandatory hotel quarantine, travel was responsible for almost no corona cases in Ireland.

That ignores the fact that any Irish statistics on clusters and their sources are known to be utter nonsense since we didn't start any form of proper contact tracing until a couple of weeks ago. (Because the man in charge of epidemiological modelling doesn't believe in retrospective contact tracing and prefers to make assumptions based on correlations, except when the obvious correlations don't suit him.)

80%+ of cases apparently spontaneously arose in households. It must be something in the water supply :rolleyes:

Economics101

Originally Posted by Red Silurian:
They broke the law once by going abroad, I don't see why they'd bother following a home quarantine law

I disagree totally. A few years ago we had a referendum which amended the Constitution to ensure the Right to Travel. I know that was caused by another issue entirely, but the reason why it passed so easily was that people (independently of their views on abortion) were adamant that they were not willing to be confined like those unfortunates behind the Berlin Wall. Those principles of personal liberty still hold, even in a Pandemic irrespective of what any medical would-be-dictators may say

fly_agaric

MOH wrote: »

That ignores the fact that any Irish statistics on clusters and their sources are known to be utter nonsense since we didn't start any form of proper contact tracing until a couple of weeks ago.

People still posting these brain-dead arguments after 1 year of this have found evidence that will prove the conclusion they desire and that's the end of it.

I expect all countries that have manadatory quarantines in place will see the light & begin scrapping these pointless policies immediately. Their "medical dictators" (great phrase) have restricted their freedoms for nothing.

After all, HSEs world beating statistics "prove" that when/if they have an outbreak, only a tiny fraction of the cases will be from inward travel so it is worthless!

muddypuppy

Red Silurian wrote: »

They broke the law once by going abroad, I don't see why they'd bother following a home quarantine law

People could have traveled abroad before there was any restrictions, and the law is not a blanket ban of travel, there are a number of reasonable excuses. How do you know that those people broke the law?

josip

If I ever found myself having to do MHQ, I'd be stashing blocks of cheese above the ceiling tiles on my last day inside.

saabsaab

muddypuppy wrote: »

People could have traveled abroad before there was any restrictions, and the law is not a blanket ban of travel, there are a number of reasonable excuses. How do you know that those people broke the law?

We know that some did. Forms showed it.

NSAman

josip wrote: »

If I ever found myself having to do MHQ, I'd be stashing blocks of cheese above the ceiling tiles on my last day inside.

I'd take up smoking inside.... what are they gonna do? Kick you out?

glenfieldman

josip wrote: »

If I ever found myself having to do MHQ, I'd be stashing blocks of cheese above the ceiling tiles on my last day inside.

Classy, that will be lovely for the housekeeping staff on minimum that has to clean after a dick

saabsaab

NSAman wrote: »

I'd take up smoking inside.... what are they gonna do? Kick you out?

Take the cigs? Fine and jail after?