Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

NSAman

faceman wrote: »

Regardless of your view on MHQ, this is hilarious

https://www.newstalk.com/news/mandatory-quarantine-issue-not-capacity-but-lack-of-enforcement-by-airlines-donnelly-1179922

IQO wrote: »

Unsustainable.

Soon there will be no flights/passengers left to quarantine.

Deleted User wrote: »

Are the airlines contractually obliged to provide freight services to someone in the Belly. If so then it will continue until those contracts reach their end dates. An LCC would have just cancelled those flights.

Basically, what I see happening here is the government forcing through legislation which will make the airlines do the border controls for the government, while at the same time forcing them into a situation that is economically unviable.

This, of course, will lead to a bail out offer which will be forced on the tax payer.

Some strong words from the Italian ambassador to Ireland this afternoon.

"Dear friends of the Italian community in Ireland, approximately a year ago, I addressed to you a video message to check with you and to remind you, at the start of the pandemic, how important it was to keep firm on an important aspect of our lives: lucidity. Today, I must remind you of the same concepts. As you know, from today, Italy will be subject to this new mandatory hotel quarantine measure. It is a measure that hits us. Us and another four EU countries, France, Belgium, Austria and Luxembourg. Together with these countries we have made a serious and decisive step, at the highest level, at the Department for Foreign Affairs, because we believe that these measures are excessive and are causing serious damage to our citizens and to our communities here in Ireland. We cannot accept this. I also wrote a letter to Minister Donnelly asking to clarify these measures that are somewhat discriminatory towards our community and towards the communities of the other four countries involved. We know that the EU must ensure and maintain the free circulation of people, goods and capital, and the free circulation of people is sacred. When you close the borders and you impose limits, there must be serious reasons to do so. I mentioned our national focal points to Minister Donnelly, to clarify in the best manner and as fast as possible, that our expectations are for these measures to be revoked. I also reminded him that Italy is carrying out a serious vaccination campaign and that, in Italy, at this very moment, there is no virus variant that is not already present in Ireland. So we need to be careful when imposing discriminatory and selective measures towards Italian and other EU citizens. We must work together. We must, as soon as possible, abolish these measures that hit our community and other EU communities here. We must maintain a good connection between our countries because each one of us has a responsibility in this situation. I attached to my letter to Minister Donnelly, a letter from an Italian researcher at Trinity College to give him an overall view of the expectations that our community has and to ask him that our community is not damaged without a just and evident reason. We are working on this and I want to assure you that, within our framework, we are doing everything possible to overcome this serious problem and to make sure that Ireland is and remains a winning choice. Thank you"

mmclo

IQO wrote: »

Unsustainable.

Soon there will be no flights/passengers left to quarantine.

There are less and less flights every day

saabsaab

Edz87 wrote: »

Some strong words from the Italian ambassador to Ireland this afternoon.

Their record hasn't been great.

MOH

monkeybutter wrote: »

is that not the case already? everyone i know who flew in the last say 10 months, so mid summer on had to have a negative test both ways

Huh? There was no restriction of any kind coming into Ireland until the PCR test requirement was brought in mid-January

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

Their record hasn't been great.

In what regard?

saabsaab

Edz87 wrote: »

In what regard?

In allowing the spread of Covid.

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

In allowing the spread of Covid.

In what way?

saabsaab

Edz87 wrote: »

In what way?

See attached. Lessons not learnt by Italy.


https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4279

hotmail.com

De Valera would be proud of internment system.

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

See attached. Lessons not learnt by Italy.


https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4279

Yeah, replace Italy with Ireland, UK, France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, USA....

Sono Topolino

The European Commission is examining our mandatory hotel quarantine regulations with a view to initiating infringement procedings if they aren't amended to make them more transparent and less arbitrary. In addition, the Commission has requested the Government outline other policy avenues it examined which do not breach the fundamental freedoms of EU citizens, and explain why they were rejected.

Austria, Belgium, France, Luxembourg and Italy have lodged complaints regarding the mistreatment of their nationals and will raise it jointly at EU Council level.

is_that_so

Another challenge to MHQ requirement, this one is completely understandable.

An Irish couple who travelled to Ukraine for the birth of their boy through surrogacy have been given permission to take a legal challenge to the requirement to pre-book a room in hotel quarantine before they can fly home.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0415/1210115-quarantine-courts/

normanoffside

is_that_so wrote: »

Another challenge to MHQ requirement, this one is completely understandable.



https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0415/1210115-quarantine-courts/

If anything can be learned from this it's that the Airport watchers must understand that most travel is essential these days. It's mostly not people flying back from holidays in red list countries.

josip

is_that_so wrote: »

Another challenge to MHQ requirement, this one is completely understandable.
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0415/1210115-quarantine-courts/

Why are these people being forced to bring all the cases to the High Court?
Isn't there supposed to be an appeals process?

is_that_so

josip wrote: »

Why are these people being forced to bring all the cases to the High Court?
Isn't there supposed to be an appeals process?

Someone in the DoH, a "case officer" but they seem to reject all appeals out of hand so they end up in the HC.

josip

is_that_so wrote: »

Someone in the DoH, a "case officer" but they seem to reject all appeals out of hand so they end up in the HC.

Is this due to the old mentality of can't be reprimanded if they apply the rules but if they were to actually evaluate a specific case on its merits, then they run the risk of a mark on their record ?

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

Another challenge to MHQ requirement, this one is completely understandable.



https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0415/1210115-quarantine-courts/

How so? Does traveling for the purpose of collecting a surrogate baby make them immune to the disease? I sympathise with them of course, but the amount of "special cases" coming out iin the media is ridiculous. And don't get me started on the EU "sanctity of free movement" bull****. This is exactly why we need quarantine, everyone thinks they are special and are exempt from the travel restrictions.

I'm delighted to hear stories of people being unable to book flights because they haven't pre book their quarantine stay. This is exactly what we need. I hope the government fight ls them all in the courts and doesn't back down.

Father Hernandez

Deleted User wrote: »

How so? Does traveling for the purpose of collecting a surrogate baby make them immune to the disease? I sympathise with them of course, but the amount of "special cases" coming out iin the media is ridiculous. And don't get me started on the EU "sanctaty of free movement" bull****. This is exactly why we need quarantine, everyone thinks they are special and are exempt from the travel restrictions.

I'm delighted to hear stories of people being unable to book flights because they haven't pre book their quarantine stay. This is exactly what we need. I hope the government fight ls them all in the courts and doesn't back down.

There are already multiple exemptions so why wouldn't they challenge it?

Government officials are exempt, elite sportspeople maybe too, the virus doesn't differentiate between those exempt or not.

Good on them for challenging it, they'll most likely win as there are too many holes in MHQ as seen by cases thrown out already.

is_that_so

josip wrote: »

Is this due to the old mentality of can't be reprimanded if they apply the rules but if they were to actually evaluate a specific case on its merits, then they run the risk of a mark on their record ?

It really seems to be just a flat no to any appeal.

NSAman

I wonder if an ingrown toe nail appointment could be used as a High Court Challenge at this stage?

The whole thing is a sh1tshow.

Corholio

Fully vaccinated people to be made exempt from MHQ. Should have been the very first exemption even thought of.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

How so? Does traveling for the purpose of collecting a surrogate baby make them immune to the disease? I sympathise with them of course, but the amount of "special cases" coming out iin the media is ridiculous. And don't get me started on the EU "sanctity of free movement" bull****. This is exactly why we need quarantine, everyone thinks they are special and are exempt from the travel restrictions.

I'm delighted to hear stories of people being unable to book flights because they haven't pre book their quarantine stay. This is exactly what we need. I hope the government fight ls them all in the courts and doesn't back down.

have you ever had a new baby? This baby is a surrogate baby, so the mother cannot breastfeed it. It will need bottles, formula, sterilising equipment, a baby bath, a bassinet/crib...........I doubt the Maldron Hotel will provide all or any of this equipment!! This couple live 10 minutes from Dublin Airport and will be able to quarantine at home where they have ALL of this equipment.

They will not be going out as new parents (in case you didn't know) can barely get time to have a shower or go to the toilet, let alone go out for walks. In this case I hope they win their case. The MHQ is a really poorly thought out process and more and more cases are going to come before the Courts.

Corholio

Corholio wrote: »

Fully vaccinated people to be made exempt from MHQ. Should have been the very first exemption even thought of.

Common sense :rolleyes::rolleyes:

caveat emptor

NSAman wrote: »

Basically, what I see happening here is the government forcing through legislation which will make the airlines do the border controls for the government, while at the same time forcing them into a situation that is economically unviable.

This, of course, will lead to a bail out offer which will be forced on the tax payer.

But did we not already bail them out? Below on the legality point. EU can refer to its own law first.

At the heart of global pandemic governance is the WHO’s International Health Regulations (2005) (IHR), with 194 national signatories, which sets out key principles to guide national preparedness and response. At European regional level, EU Decision 1082/13 is the key legal instrument for cross border threats to health. This explicitly recognises and endorses compliance with the IHR at Articles (6), (12) and (26).

Both the IHR and Decision 1082/13 require signatory states to develop national plans for pandemic preparedness and response [1], [2]. Many countries do now have plans in place, which can include controversial, but sometimes necessary, measures such as rationing of resources, enforced isolation or quarantine, or seizure of goods and property. However, given the magnitude of a pandemic threat, both the WHO [3] and the EU (through the ECDC) [4] also encourage the use of legal frameworks to support those plans. “Legal frameworks” may be “legislation, laws, regulation, administrative requirements, policies or other government instruments” [5]. National legislation is “hard law”, the strongest and most formal mode of governance.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168851017302221

Father Hernandez

Father Hernandez wrote: »

There are already multiple exemptions so why wouldn't they challenge it?

Government officials are exempt, elite sportspeople maybe too, the virus doesn't differentiate between those exempt or not.

Good on them for challenging it, they'll most likely win as there are too many holes in MHQ as seen by cases thrown out already.

You're right that there are too many holes. Als9 that everyone is entitled to challenge it and have a good chance of overturning it in its current form. It will be good to get these holes plugged and come out the other side with something more water tight. This will make us better prepared when this false sense of security as a result of the vaccines blows over and the mother fcuker of all variants sweeps the globe.

Larbre34

[Deleted User] wrote: »

this false sense of security as a result of the vaccines blows over.

Explain?

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Explain?

Astrazenica is 10% effective against the South African variant. Useless in other words. Pfizer and moderna are working on a new vaccine already that will be required next year as existing vaccines are expected to become less effective.

Jizique

Father Hernandez wrote: »

There are already multiple exemptions so why wouldn't they challenge it?

Government officials are exempt, elite sportspeople maybe too, the virus doesn't differentiate between those exempt or not.

Good on them for challenging it, they'll most likely win as there are too many holes in MHQ as seen by cases thrown out already.

Yes, what would we do if those elite sportspeople couldn’t play France at the weekend, the IRFU would be gutted.
I suspect the laws have to be changed to allow Leinster play

NSAman

Jizique wrote: »

Yes, what would we do if those elite sportspeople couldn’t play France at the weekend, the IRFU would be gutted.
I suspect the laws have to be changed to allow Leinster play

So elite sportspeople are more important than people who are vaccinated and have a parent/family member in crisis?

Hmmm that shows you what is important.