Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Valhallapt

Valhallapt wrote: »

Yes, happens all too often. Politician puts self interest above the country.

Sure we had to reshuffle the government last year in the midst of a catastrophe so the boys and girls of Fianna Fail could get their turn...

Just goes to show their priorities

zebastein

Golfman64 wrote: »

Yeah SD has made a complete fool out of himself with regards to MHQ. Firstly, forcing it in and now the complete shambles it continues to be, sucking up valuable resources in terms of time and money.

The sooner one of the adults in government steps in and sorts out the mess, the better before he brings them all down.

Note that only the minister of health goes in all sorts of interviews regarding the MHQ.
The MHQ is also highly related to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Transport and Justice, but they don't really stand up to defend the MHQ. It is a one man band at the moment, and he will have to take full responsibility for the fiasco.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Not all vaccines are equal as we are learning. South Africa gave away there AZ.

Why would they do that? [/url]

Because they jumped the gun? They are, at this moment in time also not using J&J so have now made an absolute mess of their system.

Even if it doesnt stop you getting Covid, if the effect is greatly reduced then its still a win.

In regards London, they were warned not too push second does out so far and we all knew from day one that total immunity is not obtained so the fact that some effected people had recieved a first dose doesnt real change anything.

What is the other suggestion? We dont bother until we find a magic bullet? Because they very rarely exist against any disease. You can still get chicken pox, the flu, etc after vaccination

is_that_so

mmclo wrote: »

The reality is a Commission action would take years and both sides know it, they were pursuing us on water quality for 20 years!

They've already responded to it and the government now have ten days to reply. It's not as if this reaction couldn't have been predicted if they insisted on tacking on more EU countries to the red list.

The European Commission has said the Government should use "less restrictive" quarantine measures for citizens arriving from five EU member states and that there should be clear exemptions for essential travel to Ireland.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0416/1210274-coronavirus-ireland-quarantine/

saabsaab

MHQ quarantine was and is the right policy. What we had before was non observed 'voluntary' quarantine which didn't happen in most cases. On top of that it acts as a deterrent to those coming in.

Widescreen

The EU should be impressed that Ireland are now being so careful in trying to stop the virus variants infiltrating here.

Do they think Europeans carry less virulent virus strains- jesus:)

EU Vaccine roll out was laughable initially and still not brilliant now, they are the gift that keeps on giving if you ask me.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

They've already responded to it and the government now have ten days to reply. It's not as if this reaction couldn't have been predicted if they insisted on tacking on more EU countries to the red list.




https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0416/1210274-coronavirus-ireland-quarantine/

or they can completely ignore it as the commission have zero enforcement powers

"We invite the Irish authorities to align more closely their measures taken with the provisions of the council recommendation member states agreed in October and updated earlier this year."

ooooh, hide behind the sofa everybody. They have invited the Irish authorities to stop being bold and play nice

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Not all vaccines are equal as we are learning. South Africa gave away there AZ.

Why would they do that?

The average age of the trial participant was young so now hospitalisation or death was observed in either arm. Not enough data yet either way.

The S.A variant isn't an issue thus far. UK is throwing the kitchen sink at it to contain. Going door to door in large boroughs of London to contain it. You may not like facts but that's what they are.

If it does spread in U.K there'll be a lot more data to confirm or reject various unknowns. Hopefully it doesn't. I would not be so sure.

Are you saying the Financial Times is lying?



https://twitter.com/FT/status/1382737598762864640?s=20

This is the third time that there has been surge testing re. SA variant. two of them have been in my old borough of wandsworth. It has been in the UK for months. And nothing has come of it so far, nor has there been anything reportable from the outcomes of the last surge testing exercises.

is_that_so

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

or they can completely ignore it as the commission have zero enforcement powers

Oh, they can embarrass us, fine us or even take us to court. We tend not to ignore the EU for too long no matter what "The Bull" Donnelly thinks.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the third time that there has been surge testing re. SA variant. two of them have been in my old borough of wandsworth. It has been in the UK for months. And nothing has come of it so far, nor has there been anything reportable from the outcomes of the last surge testing exercises.

I think the difference this time is that they have opened up a lot in the past couple of weeks so not exactly the same situation at all.

“Surge testing works until the day that it doesn’t,” said Danny Altmann, professor of immunology at Imperial College London, adding that the variant could “completely devastate us” if health officials were unable to prevent it from spreading nationwide — like B.1.1.7 did at the end of last year.

“I am extremely concerned that . . . the horse may have already bolted,” said Dr Zubaida Haque, a member of Independent Sage, convened as an alternative to the government’s top scientific advisory group.

The relaxation of lockdown rules in England this week and children’s return to school after the Easter break were “the perfect storm” for variants to spread, Haque added.

Scientists also fear that the 501Y.V2 variant may have a competitive advantage over the B.1.1.7 variant, first identified in Kent, as it appears it may be able to infect some vaccinated people due to mutations around its spike protein, which it uses to enter human cells.

fly_agaric

My reading was core of the EU criticism was fairness + the logic behind chosing some countries and not others. It's not clear to me either really.

If it is an emergency measure why does it appear selections being made relate to how much back and forward travel there is between Ireland and a given place + how big of a hassle it is rather than public health?

Should have waited until they were fairly sure of capcacity & systems (would need a wait list of some sort?) to manage it and put the large ones (rest of the EU/the UK/US) on the MHQ list at the same date as a big bang.

As far as I always understood it the public health advice/suggestion provided to govt. by NPHET and always rejected until recently was to test + quarantine incoming travellers in so far as we can (no exceptions for particular countries or particular nationalities e.g. returning Irish).

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

Oh, they can embarrass us, fine us or even take us to court. We tend not to ignore the EU for too long no matter what "The Bull" Donnelly thinks.

Did you completely ignore the part where I pointed out they have no enforcement powers?

Or earlier in the thread where multiple people have pointed out earlier submissions by the cimmission?

Or the parts of your own link which clearly uses words that are tame and far from even suggesting anything like enforcement?

zebastein

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

or they can completely ignore it as the commission have zero enforcement powers

"We invite the Irish authorities to align more closely their measures taken with the provisions of the council recommendation member states agreed in October and updated earlier this year."

ooooh, hide behind the sofa everybody. They have invited the Irish authorities to stop being bold and play nice

What happened last year when UK wanted to put a quarantine on travel from France is that France said "ok then we'll put a ban on travel from UK", tit for tat.


https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/05/france-germany-greece-spain-threaten-uk-travellers-quarantine-sanctions-12809568/


A few days later, the UK lifted all the quarantines, because they did not want that to happen:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53177282



The same will happen in this case, the EU commission is just giving its recommendation, and then EU countries will individually take actions.

Valhallapt

saabsaab wrote: »

MHQ quarantine was and is the right policy. What we had before was non observed 'voluntary' quarantine which didn't happen in most cases. On top of that it acts as a deterrent to those coming in.

MHQ quarantine was and is the wrong policy.

Jailing children because they had been in a foreign country is never right.

caveat emptor

We should just do what Germany does and not allow people in.

Airlines are legally not allowed to transport Irish people there.

Nobody saying anything about that. Easy to pick on little old eire.

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/coronavirus#content_1

Entry restrictions

Restrictions on travel from countries with coronavirus variants

A travel ban has been imposed on countries with widespread occurrence of SARS-CoV-2 virus variants of concern (referred to as “areas of variant of concern”). Transport companies, e.g. air carriers and railway companies, may not transport any persons from these countries to Germany. There are only a few, strictly defined exceptions to this travel ban, namely for:

Persons who are resident in Germany with a current right to reside in the country
Persons on connecting flights, who do not leave the transit zone of an international airport
Few other special cases

is_that_so

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Did you completely ignore the part where I pointed out they have no enforcement powers?

Or earlier in the thread where multiple people have pointed out earlier submissions by the cimmission?

Or the parts of your own link which clearly uses words that are tame and far from even suggesting anything like enforcement?

I probably did just as I'm ignoring your flaccid attempts to slap me with a wet haddock here!

zebastein

zebastein wrote: »

What happened last year when UK wanted to put a quarantine on travel from France is that France said "ok then we'll put a ban on travel from UK", tit for tat.


https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/05/france-germany-greece-spain-threaten-uk-travellers-quarantine-sanctions-12809568/


A few days later, the UK lifted all the quarantines, because they did not want that to happen:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53177282



The same will happen in this case, the EU commission is just giving its recommendation, and then EU countries will individually take actions.

Yep, thats the exact same as what you have claimed.

The UK being allowed to continue to ban the French and the French being allowed ban the UK in return is absolutely what you are claming and not one iota, proving my claim that countries can ban others if they want without the EU taking them to court.

You cannot be serious with this can you? Your post literally proves my point

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

We should just do what Germany does and not allow people in.

Airlines are legally not allowed to transport Irish people there.

Nobody saying anything about that. Easy to pick on little old eire.

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/coronavirus#content_1

Massive difference between what you are suggesting and what they allow.
They allow people in if they are meant to be in Germany. Ireland makes it difficult for people to enter Ireland even if they are meant to be in Ireland.
People meant to be in Germany are just expected to quarantine at home.

Valhallapt

caveat emptor wrote: »

We should just do what Germany does and not allow people in.

Airlines are legally not allowed to transport Irish people there.

Nobody saying anything about that. Easy to pick on little old eire.

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/coronavirus#content_1

You are gas lighting, that article says

In principle, entry is possible from:

EU member states
states associated with Schengen: Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein
Other countries, from which entry is possible due to the epidemiological situation assessment by the EU.

OwenM

saabsaab wrote: »

MHQ quarantine was and is the right policy. What we had before was non observed 'voluntary' quarantine which didn't happen in most cases. On top of that it acts as a deterrent to those coming in.

So when someone in the community catches it, off to a hotel with them? A Spanish trawler ties up in Berehaven, do the crew have to be bussed off to a hotel? The trucks arriving on ferries, keep the drivers on the ferry, sterilise the cab, find 'another' driver and off goes the truck? I haven't started on the NI/IRE border....

Airport quarantine is a delaying tactic and nothing more, promoted by zerocovid nutjobs because they see it as the next step in their plan to save the world. If a new even more infectious variant arises it will likely become the dominant one and the only way to stop it is a true zerocovid approach which is not going to work here and even if it did the likes of Killeen have admitted it would be needed until 2nd gen vaccines which are only in stage 1 trials - possibly for years away.....

It is stunning just how much disinformation is being propagated by some posters contributing to this thread.

zebastein

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yep, thats the exact same as what you have claimed.

The UK being allowed to continue to ban the French and the French being allowed ban the UK in return is absolutely what you are claming and not one iota, proving my claim that countries can ban others if they want without the EU taking them to court.

You cannot be serious with this can you? Your post literally proves my point

Yeah well I just quoted you to add on the same subject, I have never said that I wanted to prove the contrary of your point, did I?
I agree, the EU commission is not what Ireland has to be afraid of. They have to be afraid of "retaliation" actions from the other EU countries, based on the feedback of the EU commission.

saabsaab

Valhallapt wrote: »

MHQ quarantine was and is the wrong policy.

Jailing children because they had been in a foreign country is never right.

Nobody is being jailed. It is because they may be carriers of a disease that can kill. Simple really.

UDAWINNER

https://twitter.com/ClareOC_/status/1382972908033687554

I wonder do people get as worked up when it comes to the homeless. MHQ is necessary to stop these feckin variants and I personally do not trust the majority to stay in their own homes.

josip

saabsaab wrote: »

MHQ quarantine was and is the right policy. What we had before was non observed 'voluntary' quarantine which didn't happen in most cases. On top of that it acts as a deterrent to those coming in.

..or trying to come home.

saabsaab

OwenM wrote: »

So when someone in the community catches it, off to a hotel with them? A Spanish trawler ties up in Berehaven, do the crew have to be bussed off to a hotel? The trucks arriving on ferries, keep the drivers on the ferry, sterilise the cab, find 'another' driver and off goes the truck? I haven't started on the NI/IRE border....

Airport quarantine is a delaying tactic and nothing more, promoted by zerocovid nutjobs because they see it as the next step in their plan to save the world. If a new even more infectious variant arises it will likely become the dominant one and the only way to stop it is a true zerocovid approach which is not going to work here and even if it did the likes of Killeen have admitted it would be needed until 2nd gen vaccines which are only in stage 1 trials - possibly for years away.....

We have a good shot at stopping Covid this year by vaccines roll out. Travel especially airtravel is counter to this effort. Many experts have said so.

zebastein

OwenM wrote: »

Airport quarantine is a delaying tactic and nothing more, promoted by zerocovid nutjobs

Interestingly, the same zerocovid nutjobs do not make any proposal on how to stop the spread of the virus in Offaly. Offaly is double the rate compared to the national average, but people know too well that reducing this rate means controling the people that have the covid in the community and have spread it for 2months now. Easier to take measures that impact only people from abroad that you don't know.


We have been told that we cannot blame the people who get covid, because otherwise people would not be willing to be tested or would lie saying that they don't have covid and would go to their workplace. We can take any action on people with a negative pcr test coming from a country with 2.5x our avg rate, but we can't take any action on people with covid in counties with 2x our avg rate. Let's ask ourselves what is delaying the end of the lockdown.

fly_agaric

Valhallapt wrote: »

I think everyone agrees we need to stop variants coming in and reseeding COVID. But MHQ is a bad approach. A grown up thoughtful approach which deals with all the facts needs to be had.

How though and what is that alternative approach?

I don't know if we can actually stop "variants" coming in (given our link to UK via NI + assuming they don't quarantine travellers), likely we can only slow such things down.

Certainly contact tracing and enforcing Covid tests and isolation/quarantine for those who test positive seems impossible too after 1 year, either due to lack of resources or the fact that such things are probably also illegal/unconstitutional [if you declare MHQ is].

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

Massive difference between what you are suggesting and what they allow.
They allow people in if they are meant to be in Germany. Ireland makes it difficult for people to enter Ireland even if they are meant to be in Ireland.
People meant to be in Germany are just expected to quarantine at home.

Valhallapt wrote: »

You are gas lighting, that article says

In principle, entry is possible from:

EU member states
states associated with Schengen: Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein
Other countries, from which entry is possible due to the epidemiological situation assessment by the EU.

Hold on there lads. ......And don't shoot the messenger. Accusing me of gaslighting is grand is it? If you don't agree with Germany not allowing people from Ireland in then take it up with the German Ambassador..

A travel ban has been imposed on countries with widespread occurrence of SARS-CoV-2 virus variants of concern (referred to as “areas of variant of concern”). Transport companies, e.g. air carriers and railway companies, may not transport any persons from these countries to Germany. There are only a few, strictly defined exceptions to this travel ban, namely for:

Follow the link and use google translate before you start piling on. You are wrong.

https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Risikogebiete_neu.html

Also we've gone from "freedom of movement" to "meant to be in that country"

What does that even mean?

New since the last change:
1. New virus variant areas - areas with a particularly high risk of infection due to the widespread occurrence of certain SARS-CoV-2 virus variants:
No new virus variant areas since the last change (see current list below)
2. New high incidence areas - areas with a particularly high risk of infection due to particularly high incidences for the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus:
Argentina is now considered a high incidence area
3. New risk areas - areas with increased SARS-CoV-2 infection risk:
Portugal - the autonomous region of Azores and the Algarve region are now also considered risk areas.
Spain - the autonomous community of Castile-La Mancha is now also a risk area.
The United Arab Emirates is now a risk area (previously a high incidence area).
4.Areas that are no longer considered risk areas:
Barbados is no longer a risk area.
Finland - the Pirkanmaa region is no longer considered a risk area.
Ireland - the Mid-West and South-East regions are no longer considered risk areas.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, including the Isle of Man, all Channel Islands and the British Overseas Territories (with the exception of Bermuda, British Virgin Islands and the Falkland Islands) is no longer a risk area.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

It is stunning just how much disinformation is being propagated by some posters contributing to this thread.

I think it's called misinformation. If you are talking about me please do follow the links and read before starting a pile on.