Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Stormyteacup

VeryWise wrote: »

Why should people that arrive in the airport and are vaccinated or have a negative PCR test need to isolate at home let alone MHQ, if elite athletes are free to go normally and positive cases in Ireland are not quarantined?

The common variants are here, if we want stop new ones then we need to seal the border and hope we don’t brew a variant ourselves. We are spending billions, cancelling other health services and many cheer on expensive measures that achieve very little. Either do it 100% like Australia etc. or drop it. MHQ for some arrivals is like sleeping around and only using a condom when the new partner has come from outside Ireland, unless they are an athlete of course, then you don’t need a condom.

Yes agree with you. Last I read there were 18 positive cases since MHQ began, and I don’t know how many went through so far, maybe 500 or so?

CSO figures show for February this year we had 50,000 arrivals into Ireland. Even if a new deadly variant emerged (and didn’t brew here) there’s no chance MHQ would keep it out. Utterly futile vanity project, and a massive waste of time and resources when DOH should be focused on vaccine rollout.

maestroamado

Blut2 wrote: »

The media is partially to blame, for their repeatedly demanding MHQ be brought in. But the buck stops with our politicians. Instead of spending months "investigating" and "implementing" MHQ, all it would have taken was some of them to stand up and say "MHQ would be nice, but its not possible to bring in given our constitutional obligations to our citizens, our commitments to EU law, our economic reliance on FDI, and the practicalities of our open border with Northern Ireland".

If our Tanaiste/Taoiseach/Minister of Health had came out forcefully saying that then the matter would have been dropped from public debate within a week. It wouldn't have been popular initially, but it would have been honest. And in time that would have been seen as entirely reasonable, and their honesty would have gotten them praise.

Instead, they privately admitted they didn't want to bring in MHQ, drew the matter out for as long as possible, and eventually hesitantly implemented a system thats a complete farce. Vast sums of money are being wasted, the public image of Ireland with our trading partners is being tarnished, and individual Irish citizens who can't visit dying relatives are suffering life changing emotional damage. All because our leaders were afraid to stand up admit the unpopular truth to the public.

For me the media just report what is happening, unfortunately we have weak politicians and we need decisive people to make decisions and review every week or so. Opposition parties wanted MHQ and they got it because our decision makers said best medical advise etc.
I have said from the beginning EU should have taken a more active role in the area of Air travel and insisted all EU countries had clear travel guidelines for Air travel, then it is clear who can travel and the requirements on arrival and return.
For me really all we need is clarity. I do not expect the MHQ for EU citizens who have a clear test within 72 hours before travel be a runner...

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't matter. Answer the question. You've evaded two already this morning.

How can he without examing the methods and scenarios that presented themselves in that country?

Its impossible to answer such a vague and limited question. The fact that you think such an important part such as the actual country, speaks volumes about your research.

Fr_Dougal

Restrictions for travellers arriving in Northern Ireland, finally some joined up thinking.

Fr_Dougal

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Restrictions for travellers arriving in Northern Ireland, finally some joined up thinking.

What aspects are ‘joined up’?

IngazZagni

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Restrictions for travellers arriving in Northern Ireland, finally some joined up thinking.

Except the Countries on the list are completely different and don't appear to have any European Countries on it. So not joined up at all really, just aligning themselves a bit more with England.

Fr_Dougal

IngazZagni wrote: »

Except the Countries on the list are completely different and don't appear to have any European Countries on it. So not joined up at all really, just aligning themselves a bit more with England.

The countries are completely different? You haven’t seen the list so.

Fr_Dougal

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

The countries are completely different? You haven’t seen the list so.

No USA or EU countries on the NI list. They are the countries that people are animated about, and the ones for which Belfast is most like to be used as a ‘back door’

Does anyone really care that Suriname or Malawi are common names on the list? The only countries of any relevance to us that are in common on that list are UAE, S Africa and Brazil

It’s copying the English list.....not joining up with Ireland in any way whatsoever

maestroamado

I noticed that Vietnam was mentioned earlier but i cannot find why it came into this conversation..
I see Australia, NZ, China,Thailand and a few others seem to have no restrictions.
I assume this to mean they just need the 72 hour test...

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How can he without examing the methods and scenarios that presented themselves in that country?

Its impossible to answer such a vague and limited question. The fact that you think such an important part such as the actual country, speaks volumes about your research.

It's a simple question. Can a country have zero-Covid without flight restrictions / mandatory quarantine? The specific country is irrelevant.

"speaks volumes about my research" my hole.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a simple question. Can a country have zero-Covid without flight restrictions / mandatory quarantine? The specific country is irrelevant.

"speaks volumes about my research" my hole.

Its completely relevent. You are clearly attempting to corner him with a simplistic Q&A

But I shall play. Yes, possible A country could achieve this without forcing MHQ and banning flights into its sovereign land.

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Its completely relevent. You are clearly attempting to corner him with a simplistic Q&A

But I shall play. Yes, possible A country could achieve this without forcing MHQ and banning flights into its sovereign land.

It is not relevant, and considering I talk about Vietnam so often, and have done for ten years, I assumed he knew. I've talked about it with him recently I think.

As for your answer to my question, I have no idea how you could possibly think that. But ok.

faceman

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a simple question. Can a country have zero-Covid without flight restrictions / mandatory quarantine? The specific country is irrelevant.

"speaks volumes about my research" my hole.

You're presenting a very simplistic view with your question. You're assuming Zero Covid is more than an idealistic goal. We know that if you dont prevent Covid getting in to a country in the first place, then you've no hope of achieving zero covid without incredibly strict and punitive eradication of community transmission, which is of course the elephant in the room in these conversations.

You also have to consider the impact that covid measures have on other aspects of public health and whether you like it or not, you have to consider economic and socio economic factors.

Ireland doesn't exist in a vacuum. Australia does and New Zealand does.

Even the experts that are often cited when justifying MHQ for all agree with zero Covid is not a realistic option for Ireland.

Btw, my question about your location was not antagonistic. Im not the young fella I was when I joined boards so my brain cells aren't as polished.

Here's my question for you.

Where do you draw the line? How long can and should a country park screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease, and curtail economic activity under the umbrella of zero covid before it becomes far more damaging long term than Covid itself? 1 year? 2, 5, 10? At what point do you weigh up the opportunity cost and measure zero covid as a success when other areas of life result in more serious long term impacts?

faceman

faceman wrote: »

You're presenting a very simplistic view with your question. You're assuming Zero Covid is more than an idealistic goal. We know that if you dont prevent Covid getting in to a country in the first place, then you've no hope of achieving zero covid without incredibly strict and punitive eradication of community transmission, which is of course the elephant in the room in these conversations.

Vietnam has gotten rid of it four times, and I've only had three weeks of lockdown since this all started, and those three weeks were not as strict as any normal day in Ireland. Is locking down an apartment building or village for two weeks "strict and punitive" to you? Is proper contact tracing?

faceman wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? How long can and should a country park screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease, and curtail economic activity under the umbrella of zero covid before it becomes far more damaging long term than Covid itself? 1 year? 2, 5, 10? At what point do you weigh up the opportunity cost and measure zero covid as a success when other areas of life result in more serious long term impacts?

This is completely backwards. The point of zero-Covid is that those things don't have to be stopped. Regardless of the argument about whether or not it could have been achieved in Ireland, you're completely misrepresenting what zero-Covid looks like.

Ireland should have had a couple of Covid-19 hospitals and things carry on the same in others. Nurses work in one or the other.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As for your answer to my question, I have no idea how you could possibly think that. But ok.

They exist. Thats subject to fluctuation of course. They may not be free next week and so on....

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ireland should have had a couple of Covid-19 hospitals and things carry on the same in others. Nurses work in one or the other.

Which ones? How would it work if a patient tested positive. Moved? What about staff?

We should clearly have more hospital beds, icu beds and staff at this stage and it would hurt the economy far less

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Which ones? How would it work if a patient tested positive. Moved? What about staff?

Yeah, I'm done with this thread. It's like arguing with depression.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah, I'm done with this thread. It's like arguing with depression.

Because I asked you to explain your theory?

And pointed out that countries have achieved zero without the restrictions you mentioned?

Charles Babbage

faceman wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? How long can and should a country park screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease, and curtail economic activity under the umbrella of zero covid before it becomes far more damaging long term than Covid itself? 1 year? 2, 5, 10? At what point do you weigh up the opportunity cost and measure zero covid as a success when other areas of life result in more serious long term impacts?

Given our geographic location we are not New Zealand. But that said, in what way does reducing Covid prevent screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease? On the contrary, by ensuring that that hospitals are not bunged with Covid patients it ensures that these activities can continue.

saabsaab

Red Silurian wrote: »

That's essentially what this boils down to, if we could trust people to self-isolate then MHQ wouldn't be needed

Sadly as we have seen people can't be trusted

That sums it up alright.

Valhallapt

saabsaab wrote: »

That sums it up alright.

so is MHQ where we draw the line? We can't trust those in the community to isolate either, unless you're suggesting its just the foreigners we can't trust?

saabsaab

Valhallapt wrote: »

so is MHQ where we draw the line? We can't trust those in the community to isolate either, unless you're suggesting its just the foreigners we can't trust?

Stop putting words in my mouth. We can't trust people to do what's needed. Human nature I guess. There is even a (very small) element that goes outof their way to breach any regulation or measure.

Valhallapt

saabsaab wrote: »

Stop putting words in my mouth. We can't trust people to do what's needed. Human nature I guess. There is even a (very small) element that goes outof their way to breach any regulation or measure.

So do we draw the line at MHQ?

faceman

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Given our geographic location we are not New Zealand. But that said, in what way does reducing Covid prevent screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease? On the contrary, by ensuring that that hospitals are not bunged with Covid patients it ensures that these activities can continue.

Irish hospitals weren’t under pressure for most of last year and were under pressure for only a fraction of this year yet....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cancer-services-will-not-fully-resume-until-year-end-under-hse-s-pandemic-plan-1.4517265

saabsaab

Valhallapt wrote: »

So do we draw the line at MHQ?

IN spite of the issues it is the easiest place to draw it. I would go further but we don't have the resources to do so.

Valhallapt

saabsaab wrote: »

IN spite of the issues it is the easiest place to draw it. I would go further but we don't have the resources to do so.

Indulge me, what else would you do?

saabsaab

Valhallapt wrote: »

Indulge me, what else would you do?

Anyone who has tested positive for covid found visiting anywhere outside their home would get a large fine. Say 1,000 euro or if you prefer a % of your income.


Where there are clusters in an area surround it with checkpoints and only allow essential traffic, use the army if necessary.

Corholio

saabsaab wrote: »

Anyone who has tested positive for covid found visiting anywhere outside their home would get a large fine. Say 1,000 euro or if you prefer a % of your income.


Where there are clusters in an area surround it with checkpoints and only allow essential traffic, use the army if necessary.

But surely if they have tested positive they shouldn't need to be 'found' visiting, they should already be taken and quarantined?

saabsaab

Corholio wrote: »

But surely if they have tested positive they shouldn't need to be 'found' visiting, they should already be taken and quarantined?

Like I said resources..

Corholio

saabsaab wrote: »

Like I said resources..

Variants don't care about resources though.

saabsaab

Corholio wrote: »

Variants don't care about resources though.

Indeed they don't.