Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Red Silurian

saabsaab wrote: »

So far with the variants, even if they evade a vaccine, the chances of getting sick or very sick are much less. This of course may not be the case if we let it out of control and a more potent version develops.

Our own numbers are running at about 400-600 a day so an 'Irish variant' wouldn't be an impossibility

Considering the Spanish Flu mutated into a less serious and more transmissible variant in it's final phase it might not be a bad thing if it happens

Two ways to look at everything

FileNotFound

saabsaab wrote: »

So far with the variants, even if they evade a vaccine, the chances of getting sick or very sick are much less. This of course may not be the case if we let it out of control and a more potent version develops.

This is such a boring a redundant argument. The flu is probably as likely or even more likely to create a deadly killer variant than Covid.

This version was so deadly as no natural immunity existed at all in the population whereas generations of immunity built up against many flu variants helps us fight it.

Worldwide up to 500,000 people die of flu related respiratory illnesses, if we did covid style testing this would be even higher.

When immunity exists in the general population against even 1 strain of covid will we ever see figures like these?


While I am all for being careful, we do need to get on with life once a certain percent of the populous are vaccinated and then let mature do its thing.

saabsaab

FileNotFound wrote: »

This is such a boring a redundant argument. The flu is probably as likely or even more likely to create a deadly killer variant than Covid.

This version was so deadly as no natural immunity existed at all in the population whereas generations of immunity built up against many flu variants helps us fight it.

Worldwide up to 500,000 people die of flu related respiratory illnesses, if we did covid style testing this would be even higher.

When immunity exists in the general population against even 1 strain of covid will we ever see figures like these?

Not true, this is a new virus for us it has mutated many times and even in unexpected ways (Indian variant) It is also a much more transmissible virus.
While I am all for being careful, we do need to get on with life once a certain percent of the populous are vaccinated and then let mature do its thing.

FileNotFound

saabsaab wrote: »

Not true, this is a new virus for us it has mutated many times and even in unexpected ways (Indian variant) It is also a much more transmissible virus.
While I am all for being careful, we do need to get on with life once a certain percent of the populous are vaccinated and then let mature do its thing.

I think i remember reading the Flu already has 198 variants that have been detected. What exactly is worse about the indian Variant - if you do a population equivalence on it India would need almost 40k deaths a day to reach the Uk worst levels with the variant they had. Then you have to factor in the population density and lesser medical supports.


What exactly in my post was not true? The flu was pre covid seen as one of the most likely things to change and create a pandemic.

faceman

saabsaab wrote: »

Not true, this is a new virus for us it has mutated many times and even in unexpected ways (Indian variant) It is also a much more transmissible virus.
While I am all for being careful, we do need to get on with life once a certain percent of the populous are vaccinated and then let mature do its thing.

Ehhhhh, you really need to educate yourself on viruses. You realise the flu evolves thousands of times a year and the flu vaccine never has coverage for all strains?

Also the hysteria over the India strain is hilarious. It’s not as transmissible as the U.K. strain

Can’t wait for your detailed and articulate response

saabsaab

faceman wrote: »

Ehhhhh, you really need to educate yourself on viruses. You realise the flu evolves thousands of times a year and the flu vaccine never has coverage for all strains?

Also the hysteria over the India strain is hilarious. It’s not as transmissible as the U.K. strain

Can’t wait for your detailed and articulate response

All viruses mutate but this one is a new one to mankind unlike the flu which we have been dealing with for a long time. New variants on Coronavirus which has jumped species recently could cause us trouble in the near future if we let it.


Below is an article on the concern about the unexpected change in the Indian variant.





'What makes the variant different?
Both these mutations are concerning because they are located in a key portion of the virus — the spike protein — that it uses to penetrate human cells. Spike proteins attach via a “receptor binding domain”, meaning the virus can attach to receptors in our cells.
These new mutations include changes to the spike protein that make it a “better fit” for human cells. This means the virus can gain entry more easily and multiply faster.
Given what we have seen with other similar mutations, it might also make it harder for our immune system to recognise the virus due to its slightly different shape. This means our immune system may not be able to recognise the virus as something it has to produce antibodies against.
The emergence of these new variants has only been possible because of the continued viral replication in areas with high circulation.'

FileNotFound

saabsaab wrote: »

All viruses mutate but this one is a new one to mankind unlike the flu which we have been dealing with for a long time. New variants on Coronavirus which has jumped species recently could cause us trouble in the near future if we let it.


Below is an article on the concern about the unexpected change in the Indian variant.





'What makes the variant different?
Both these mutations are concerning because they are located in a key portion of the virus — the spike protein — that it uses to penetrate human cells. Spike proteins attach via a “receptor binding domain”, meaning the virus can attach to receptors in our cells.
These new mutations include changes to the spike protein that make it a “better fit” for human cells. This means the virus can gain entry more easily and multiply faster.
Given what we have seen with other similar mutations, it might also make it harder for our immune system to recognise the virus due to its slightly different shape. This means our immune system may not be able to recognise the virus as something it has to produce antibodies against.
The emergence of these new variants has only been possible because of the continued viral replication in areas with high circulation.'

Yet people are recovering from it daily thanks to their immune systems killing it.

I mean factually of course. In theory any virus could change and end humanity.

The might part of that reference is just that a might or might not..

So back to potentially being less deadly than the flu once base immunity is reached.

saabsaab

FileNotFound wrote: »

Yet people are recovering from it daily thanks to their immune systems killing it.

I mean factually of course. In theory any virus could change and end humanity.

The might part of that reference is just that a might or might not..

So back to potentially being less deadly than the flu once base immunity is reached.

Yes. Once the vaccines are rolled out, hopefully.

Happydays2020

faceman wrote: »

Ehhhhh, you really need to educate yourself on viruses. You realise the flu evolves thousands of times a year and the flu vaccine never has coverage for all strains?

Also the hysteria over the India strain is hilarious. It’s not as transmissible as the U.K. strain

Can’t wait for your detailed and articulate response

I am not sure which is worse: the Ballymun or the Belamadena strain?

Red Silurian

FileNotFound wrote: »

So back to potentially being less deadly than the flu once base immunity is reached.

It's less deadly from the point of view of how many people who catch it die from it, yes, but it is much more transmittable than flu meaning overall it's much more deadly...

Also long term effects from the survivors of influenza viruses are few and far between by comparison to the SARS coronaviruses

FileNotFound

Red Silurian wrote: »

It's less deadly from the point of view of how many people who catch it die from it, yes, but it is much more transmittable than flu meaning overall it's much more deadly...

Also long term effects from the survivors of influenza viruses are few and far between by comparison to the SARS coronaviruses

Is the transmissability and exponential spread not directly related to the lack of existent immunity?

True the effects of long covid are definitely a concern.

I would be hopeful that as immunity in the community increases, transmission decreases accordingly and variant related risk is reduced exponentially.

faceman

saabsaab wrote: »

All viruses mutate but this one is a new one to mankind unlike the flu which we have been dealing with for a long time. New variants on Coronavirus which has jumped species recently could cause us trouble in the near future if we let it.


Below is an article on the concern about the unexpected change in the Indian variant.





'What makes the variant different?
Both these mutations are concerning because they are located in a key portion of the virus — the spike protein — that it uses to penetrate human cells. Spike proteins attach via a “receptor binding domain”, meaning the virus can attach to receptors in our cells.
These new mutations include changes to the spike protein that make it a “better fit” for human cells. This means the virus can gain entry more easily and multiply faster.
Given what we have seen with other similar mutations, it might also make it harder for our immune system to recognise the virus due to its slightly different shape. This means our immune system may not be able to recognise the virus as something it has to produce antibodies against.
The emergence of these new variants has only been possible because of the continued viral replication in areas with high circulation.'

I’ve posted articles about variants already. You clearly haven’t read them or are choosing to ignore them

Red Silurian

FileNotFound wrote: »

Is the transmissability and exponential spread not directly related to the lack of existent immunity?

True the effects of long covid are definitely a concern.

I would be hopeful that as immunity in the community increases, transmission decreases accordingly and variant related risk is reduced exponentially.

It doesn't help, but no... The reason for it's high rate of transmission is because you can spread it before you become sick with it, or asymptomatically. Generally speaking most known viruses don't spread until somebody is sick. With MERS (another disease caused by a coronavirus) you wouldn't be likely to spread it until you were too sick to get out of bed.

SARS (the first deadly Coronavirus on record) was somewhere in between MERS and COVID-19 so things like mask wearing and temperature screening were hugely effective without having to resort to lockdowns or mandatory quarantine

is_that_so

MHQ discussed in Seanad today, some strong opinions on it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0507/1217583-seanad-quarantine/

saabsaab

is_that_so wrote: »

MHQ discussed in Seanad today, some strong opinions on it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0507/1217583-seanad-quarantine/

Look at who is making a fuss about it! Like it or not it has worked so far.

faceman

saabsaab wrote: »

Look at who is making a fuss about it! Like it or not it has worked so far.

Can you produce evidence to back up your claim that MHQ has worked?

Even the pro MHQ doctors agree partial MHQ doesn’t work

Dyr

is_that_so wrote: »

MHQ discussed in Seanad today, some strong opinions on it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0507/1217583-seanad-quarantine/

Every time you hear a politician say "Small, open economy" what they mean is "cheap, foreign labour"

Economics101

Bambi wrote: »

Every time you hear a politician say "Small, open economy" what they mean is "cheap, foreign labour"

In Dev's protectionist era we had a small closed economy, with cheap Irish labour. An open economy is not just about labour mobility: its about mobility of goods, services and capital as well.

Dyr

Economics101 wrote: »

In Dev's protectionist era we had a small closed economy, with cheap Irish labour. An open economy is not just about labour mobility: its about mobility of goods, services and capital as well.

Goods, services and capital is not what our politicans are on about when they're nervously explaining to joe soap why they were hellbent on keeping the airports open while joe soap was under house arrest.

Small, open economy
Small, open economy
Small, open economy
Small, open economy
Keep wages down
Keep wages down
Keep wages down

normanoffside

So there are now medical exemptions because people complained?
We should just give up MHQ it's a shambles.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/after-my-overseas-surgery-i-must-quarantine-in-a-hotel-it-s-cruel-beyond-measure-1.4558283

FileNotFound

normanoffside wrote: »

So there are now medical exemptions because people complained?
We should just give up MHQ it's a shambles.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/after-my-overseas-surgery-i-must-quarantine-in-a-hotel-it-s-cruel-beyond-measure-1.4558283

I'm inclined to agree - but the whining from so many in the country to demand its introduction initially means it won't. The opposition harped on about it for ages.

Like em or hate em FG held the line that it was a waste of time. SF/FF/PBP/Lab all decided it was needed.

Is what it is now.

Blut2

FG were the one party of adults in the room saying "this whole thing will be a massive waste of time and money, ineffective, and likely brought down by legal challenges/the EU within a short period of time". Which has been proven completely correct.

I'm not a FG voter but it definitely impressed me. They showed a willingness to take an unpopular stand (with the public/tabloids) because of science. It would make me think they're actually fit to govern. Unlike FF/SF/LAB/PBP all clearly just calling for populist policies to make headlines, regardless of the facts/impact.

a_squirrelman

Blut2 wrote: »

FG were the one party of adults in the room saying "this whole thing will be a massive waste of time and money, ineffective, and likely brought down by legal challenges/the EU within a short period of time". Which has been proven completely correct.

I'm not a FG voter but it definitely impressed me. They showed a willingness to take an unpopular stand (with the public/tabloids) because of science. It would make me think they're actually fit to govern. Unlike FF/SF/LAB/PBP all clearly just calling for populist policies to make headlines, regardless of the facts/impact.

This. I live abroad anyway so can't vote anyway but if I had to choose it would be FG.
My younger self would probably punch me.

Corholio

They'll be dancing in the streets of Curacao tonight.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1391063625926946818?s=19

a_squirrelman

Corholio wrote: »

They'll be dancing in the streets of Curacao tonight.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1391063625926946818?s=19

Austria finally removed. Hallelujah.

saabsaab

faceman wrote: »

Can you produce evidence to back up your claim that MHQ has worked?

Even the pro MHQ doctors agree partial MHQ doesn’t work

We haven't imported and spread new variants here. It also has put others off travel so hard to quantify the effect but it is real.

is_that_so

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Austria finally removed. Hallelujah.

As a matter of curiosity where is the fully up to date list of countries?

muddypuppy

is_that_so wrote: »

As a matter of curiosity where is the fully up to date list of countries?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b4020-travelling-to-ireland-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/#designated-states-mandatory-hotel-quarantine

Doctor Jimbob

saabsaab wrote: »

We haven't imported and spread new variants here. It also has put others off travel so hard to quantify the effect but it is real.

Hasn’t been a single bear attack since MHQ came in either, can we thank MHQ for that as well?

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Hasn’t been a single bear attack since MHQ came in either, can we thank MHQ for that as well?

No, that was me. Im in charge of bear attacks and volanoes