Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Red Silurian

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Ah my mistake, I thought we were talking about Ireland.

You seem to be very easily confused, which explains a lot, but just to be clear, we have MHQ in Ireland

Doctor Jimbob

Red Silurian wrote: »

You seem to be very easily confused, which explains a lot, but just to be clear, we have MHQ in Ireland

Our MHQ is nothing like that in the countries you listed.

I suspect you know that though.

FileNotFound

Red Silurian wrote: »

You seem to be very easily confused, which explains a lot, but just to be clear, we have MHQ in Ireland

While he/she was being facetious, they are accurate in that Ireland has some very marked and specific differences.

To not acknowledge them is utter nonsense.

I am of the belief that MHQ can only have a positive effect on reducing incoming variants even if only through putting people off travelling.

However the limited nations, NI border etc. make its efficacy hard to judge (in percentage terms), which makes weighing up pros and cons difficult.

Bar the SA variant are any other variants increasing mortality greatly? Is the SA variant even?

Doctor Jimbob

FileNotFound wrote: »

While he/she was being facetious, they are accurate in that Ireland has some very marked and specific differences.

To not acknowledge them is utter nonsense.

I am of the belief that MHQ can only have a positive effect on reducing incoming variants even if only through putting people off travelling.

However the limited nations, NI border etc. make its efficacy hard to judge (in percentage terms), which makes weighing up pros and cons difficult.

Bar the SA variant are any other variants increasing mortality greatly? Is the SA variant even?

Yeah, if I take off my smart ass hat for a second, I agree that MHQ absolutely can help to reduce the amount of variants getting into a country. I don't think it's worth it, but that's a seperate argument.

MHQ in Ireland, with all it's exceptions (both necessary and unnecessary), is nothing more than a show to appease people who shouted for it.

saabsaab

FileNotFound wrote: »

While he/she was being facetious, they are accurate in that Ireland has some very marked and specific differences.

To not acknowledge them is utter nonsense.

I am of the belief that MHQ can only have a positive effect on reducing incoming variants even if only through putting people off travelling.

However the limited nations, NI border etc. make its efficacy hard to judge (in percentage terms), which makes weighing up pros and cons difficult.

Bar the SA variant are any other variants increasing mortality greatly? Is the SA variant even?

True. The vaccines are effective against known current variants to a large extent at least. However, you could argue that the increased ease of spread of most of these means more people get sick therefore more die. Even if in an individual case it isn't more deadly.

Remember the UK variant killed nearly as many here in 3months as had died in the previous year.

Red Silurian

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Our MHQ is nothing like that in the countries you listed.

I suspect you know that though.

In what way are they different? 14 days and 2 PCR tests, pretty much consistently confined to your room, only the UK has a system with fewer days at 10, but other than that there's not much difference

cnbyz

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

MHQ in Ireland, with all it's exceptions (both necessary and unnecessary), is nothing more than a show to appease people who shouted for it.

This. It is disproportionate. Ireland can stop the spread of the virus without MHQ. It should be abolished asap. It will do more harm than good in mid/long term. Also variants will end the pandemic remember that. Vaccine saves lives but it is going to be a new variant that will end the pandemic. believe it or not new variant should spread faster than other variants . Thats how Spanish flu ended.

Red Silurian

FileNotFound wrote: »

While he/she was being facetious, they are accurate in that Ireland has some very marked and specific differences.

To not acknowledge them is utter nonsense.

I am of the belief that MHQ can only have a positive effect on reducing incoming variants even if only through putting people off travelling.

However the limited nations, NI border etc. make its efficacy hard to judge (in percentage terms), which makes weighing up pros and cons difficult.

Bar the SA variant are any other variants increasing mortality greatly? Is the SA variant even?

Let's address these

Limited Nations: Because we are targeting the variants not covid in general as they are in the other nations. Although i will agree that we should be stopping all travellers, not just those from limited countries if we want life to return to normal anytime soon
NI Border: A border with a country with a similar MHQ policy isn't going to let much through

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Yeah, if I take off my smart ass hat for a second, I agree that MHQ absolutely can help to reduce the amount of variants getting into a country. I don't think it's worth it, but that's a seperate argument.

MHQ in Ireland, with all it's exceptions (both necessary and unnecessary), is nothing more than a show to appease people who shouted for it.

You don't think peoples lives, our economy and lifting of restrictions our day-to-day lives are worth a bit of inconvenience to incoming travellers? You prefer lockdowns, death and economy going to pot?

Red Silurian

cnbyz wrote: »

This. It is disproportionate. Ireland can stop the spread of the virus without MHQ. It should be abolished asap. It will do more harm than good in mid/long term. Also variants will end the pandemic remember that. Vaccine saves lives but it is going to be a new variant that will end the pandemic. believe it or not new variant should spread faster than other variants . Thats how Spanish flu ended.

Ireland's system of MHQ isn't designed to stop the spread of the virus, try to keep up

OwenM

Red Silurian wrote: »

In what way are they different? 14 days and 2 PCR tests, pretty much consistently confined to your room, only the UK has a system with fewer days at 10, but other than that there's not much difference

You are being so transparently disingenuous it's laughable.

Seal the border with NI, ban RO-RO ferries, fishing trawlers and small pleasure craft, put 24hr Garda presence in every small airstrip in the country and make everybody getting off a plane do MHQ - then it's comparable.

Doctor Jimbob

Red Silurian wrote: »

In what way are they different? 14 days and 2 PCR tests, pretty much consistently confined to your room, only the UK has a system with fewer days at 10, but other than that there's not much difference

What this guy said:

OwenM wrote: »

You are being so transparently disingenuous it's laughable.

Seal the border with NI, ban RO-RO ferries, fishing trawlers and small pleasure craft, put 24hr Garda presence in every small airstrip in the country and make everybody getting off a plane do MHQ - then it's comparable.

Red Silurian wrote: »

You don't think peoples lives, our economy and lifting of restrictions our day-to-day lives are worth a bit of inconvenience to incoming travellers? You prefer lockdowns, death and economy going to pot?

If you want to have an actual conversation about my thoughts on the matter I'm happy to do so. If you want to claim I prefer absurd nonsense that I never even suggested, I'll leave you to it.

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

Ireland's system of MHQ isn't designed to stop the spread of the virus, try to keep up

MHQ won’t stop variants coming in to the country either. Look at the UK....there is MHQ from India but the Indian variant got in and is everywhere

The only thing that MHQ achieves is to dissuade travelling and therefore postpone or slow (not stop) the importation of variants. I agree with others therefore that the cost of MHQ, given this minimal gain, is not worth it

If it were proper MHQ, then that would be a different conversation, bit it is not proper MHQ. IMO you either do nothing or go all in (I think that we probably agree on that, except from opposite sides of the argument)

Shiok

Red Silurian wrote: »

So we are agreed then that there is no proof that the variants are not largely being kept out witht he help of MHQ... Now lets look at proof that MHQ is effective at keeping the variants out

In the last 14 days there have been zero cases of any variant in New Zealand, China, Thailand, Singapore, Taiwan or Vietnam. That gives an incidence of 0, 5 day average of 0 and 7 day average of 0 cases

So the evidence would suggest that MHQ works in helping to keep variants out

Seven cases in three separate ‘local / community’ clusters were identified as the Indian variant in Singapore last Tuesday.

The UK, SA & Brazilian variants have also all been previously detected among ‘local / community’ cases.

Red Silurian

Deleted User wrote: »

MHQ won’t stop variants coming in to the country either. Look at the UK....there is MHQ from India but the Indian variant got in and is everywhere

The only thing that MHQ achieves is to dissuade travelling and therefore postpone or slow (not stop) the importation of variants. I agree with others therefore that the cost of MHQ, given this minimal gain, is not worth it

If it were proper MHQ, then that would be a different conversation, bit it is not proper MHQ. IMO you either do nothing or go all in (I think that we probably agree on that, except from opposite sides of the argument)

No it won't and I never said it would, I said it will help to keep the variants out. If the UK didn't have MHQ the Indian variant would likely have appeared there months ago before they had gotten this far with their vaccination programme

With regards to the all or nothing approach you mentioned while it would be preferable but I would maintain that anything is better than nothing because as somebody mentioned above it does serve as a deterrent in it's current form

OwenM wrote: »

You are being so transparently disingenuous it's laughable.

Seal the border with NI, ban RO-RO ferries, fishing trawlers and small pleasure craft, put 24hr Garda presence in every small airstrip in the country and make everybody getting off a plane do MHQ - then it's comparable.

If we want zero covid then yes that's what we need to do. If we want to slow down the variants getting here we are being told that this is enough

FileNotFound

Red Silurian wrote: »

No it won't and I never said it would, I said it will help to keep the variants out. If the UK didn't have MHQ the Indian variant would likely have appeared there months ago before they had gotten this far with their vaccination programme



If we want zero covid then yes that's what we need to do. If we want to slow down the variants getting here we are being told that this is enough

The time for zero covid is long gone. Thats an actual fact.

I am still a bit unsure how I feel about MHQ, I guess my take is that the aim was and always will be limiting mortality.

MHQ landed late and it's hard to tell if the measure has had any impact on this at all.

We can't forever hide from variants - if this is to be indemic, soon we will have people going on holidays and mixing with people that may be carrying variants in nations not on the list. What then?

faceman

Red Silurian wrote: »

So we are agreed then that there is no proof that the variants are not largely being kept out witht he help of MHQ... Now lets look at proof that MHQ is effective at keeping the variants out

In the last 14 days there have been zero cases of any variant in New Zealand, China, Thailand, Singapore, Taiwan or Vietnam. That gives an incidence of 0, 5 day average of 0 and 7 day average of 0 cases

So the evidence would suggest that MHQ works in helping to keep variants out

*China are telling us the source of virus is nothing to do with them. We shouldn’t believe them*

*China is telling us they have no cases of covid and MHQ works. We should believe them*

It’s fair if you want to cite NZ and one or 2 others as your reference point but please don’t use China as a beacon of truth

Also every one of those countries has imported covid despite having a full fledged mhq in place

:pac:

Red Silurian

FileNotFound wrote: »

The time for zero covid is long gone. Thats an actual fact.

I am still a bit unsure how I feel about MHQ, I guess my take is that the aim was and always will be limiting mortality.

MHQ landed late and it's hard to tell if the measure has had any impact on this at all.

We can't forever hide from variants - if this is to be indemic, soon we will have people going on holidays and mixing with people that may be carrying variants in nations not on the list. What then?

Completely disagree with your first point, zero covid can be reached and will be reached globally with vaccination programs. If we had decided to vaccinate the Under 45s first instead of the most vulnerable we would be there by now. Just look we have seen deaths, hospitalisations and ICU figures drop off a cliff in the last 4 months, as soon as vaccinations get down the age groups we will see case numbers do the same

MHQ is a necessary measure so we can vaccinate as many as possible before the variants make an impact here, we won't be hiding from them forever, the hope is that when they do eventually get here they'll be hampered by our vaccines because we can't have restrictions on our lives forever, some of us want to get back to the pub

Red Silurian

faceman wrote: »

*China are telling us the source of virus is nothing to do with them. We shouldn’t believe them*

*China is telling us they have no cases of covid and MHQ works. We should believe them*

It’s fair if you want to cite NZ and one or 2 others as your reference point but please don’t use China as a beacon of truth

Also every one of those countries has imported covid despite having a full fledged mhq in place

:pac:

Do you have proof of active community covid cases in china? I'm not entirely sure where your info is coming from...

FileNotFound

Red Silurian wrote: »

Completely disagree with your first point, zero covid can be reached and will be reached globally with vaccination programs. If we had decided to vaccinate the Under 45s first instead of the most vulnerable we would be there by now. Just look we have seen deaths, hospitalisations and ICU figures drop off a cliff in the last 4 months, as soon as vaccinations get down the age groups we will see case numbers do the same

MHQ is a necessary measure so we can vaccinate as many as possible before the variants make an impact here, we won't be hiding from them forever, the hope is that when they do eventually get here they'll be hampered by our vaccines because we can't have restrictions on our lives forever, some of us want to get back to the pub

According to most of what is in the news - Endemic is the word used. Meaning zero covid is not really a runner.

I understood that Endemic meant that zero Covid is a pipe dream?

OwenM

FileNotFound wrote: »

According to most of what is in the news - Endemic is the word used. Meaning zero covid is not really a runner.

I understood that Endemic meant that zero Covid is a pipe dream?

Endemic means the virus exists widely in a community/region/country at background manageable levels and infection levels are self sustaining, i.e. it's not going away but we don't care because case numbers are low. The only example of eradicating an endemic viral pathogen is smallpox and that took decades

FileNotFound

OwenM wrote: »

Endemic means the virus exists widely in a community/region/country at background manageable levels and infection levels are self sustaining, i.e. it's not going away but we don't care because case numbers are low. The only example of eradicating an endemic viral pathogen is smallpox and that took decades

Yes thats how i understood it. Essentially zero Covid is a pipe dream but long term Covid post immunity in the population might be a relatively minor seasonal illness..

faceman

Red Silurian wrote: »

Do you have proof of active community covid cases in china? I'm not entirely sure where your info is coming from...

The proof has just flown right over your head :pac::pac:

bombs away

Red Silurian wrote: »

Completely disagree with your first point, zero covid can be reached and will be reached globally with vaccination programs.

Vaccination programs won't allow for zero covid, as many people have pointed out to you. We have vaccine programs for the flu yet it is still with us. Smallpox eradication took two centuries by which time you and I will be long dead. Covid is with us now and here to stay.

bombs away

bombs away wrote: »

Vaccination programs won't allow for zero covid, as many people have pointed out to you. We have vaccine programs for the flu yet it is still with us. Smallpox eradication took two centuries by which time you and I will be long dead. Covid is with us now and here to stay.

The flu has hundreds of variations. We could eradicate covid, we just won't.

dalyboy

OwenM wrote: »

You are being so transparently disingenuous it's laughable.

Seal the border with NI, ban RO-RO ferries, fishing trawlers and small pleasure craft, put 24hr Garda presence in every small airstrip in the country and make everybody getting off a plane do MHQ - then it's comparable.

Don’t forget we also need to ban all birds too. There’s theories going that covid is carried by migrating birds.

Additionally all animals should be banned from entry either alive or dead (eg remember mink covid. What other animals could be carrying covid).

If the above is true then MHQ is a futile effort ( which it is anyway )

faceman

bombs away wrote: »

Vaccination programs won't allow for zero covid, as many people have pointed out to you. We have vaccine programs for the flu yet it is still with us. Smallpox eradication took two centuries by which time you and I will be long dead. Covid is with us now and here to stay.

Not disagreeing with your sentiment, but just to correct you one the smallpox comment. Smallpox was eradicated in the 70’s. From the time Europe started to mass produce the smallpox vaccine, it took 5 years to officially eradicate it

saabsaab

dalyboy wrote: »

Don’t forget we also need to ban all birds too. There’s theories going that covid is carried by migrating birds.

Additionally all animals should be banned from entry either alive or dead (eg remember mink covid. What other animals could be carrying covid).

If the above is true then MHQ is a futile effort ( which it is anyway )

Any animals would need to be brought in by people! As for birds have you a link to that theory?

bombs away

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The flu has hundreds of variations. We could eradicate covid, we just won't.

It has multiple of variations because it’s been around for thousands of years

dalyboy

saabsaab wrote: »

Any animals would need to be brought in by people! As for birds have you a link to that theory?

Birds spreading covid has had a request for further scientific study.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/vms3.360

maestroamado

faceman wrote: »

I’m not interested in popularity contests. I am interests in facts.

I’m quite familiar with the state’s procedures for “checking” on people post travel. Nobodies movements are being tracked. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

What could have happened is the mysterious, unverified person, was contacted by phone at a time they happened to not be at home. It’s possible the unverified person told the caller that he/she was not at home due to a medical appointment. Given medical appointments, including vaccinations, are a permitted reason to leave isolation then there is no issue.

Any suggestion that an individual’s movements are being tracked after arriving in Ireland are bare face lies. The belief that the state has some high tech surveillance system monitoring movements in real time is hilarious but also spreading misinformation

Your an eejit, this is a conversation area where people share experiences and gather info, you are a mod and you say my friend was simply telling lies.
Plain and simple idiot stuff and your a BOSS...
What your familiar with is nothing to do with you as a person, i am familiar with procedure and i relayed what was said and you said another person who cannot contribute is a LIAR, your an EEJIT plain and simple.
Now you can ban me as i have no interest in chatting to the likes of you....