Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

DaSilva

There is nothing black and white about the protection given by the vaccines.
Statistically they dramatically reduce the chance of: Becoming infected, Transmitting the virus, becoming mildly sick, becoming severely sick, dying from the infection.

I don't think they guarantee any of those though, as people's immune systems are complex systems and there are always outliers.

Blut2

None of the vaccines give total immunity against COVID-19. Even the most effective vaccine, the Pfizer one, only offers a 95% reduction[1] in symptomatic infection rates. Other vaccines have even lower effectiveness percentages.

You can, and plenty of people have to date, catch covid after being vaccinated. The evidence is very clear out there on this and is easily accessible. Anyone like Niner leprauchan arguing that a vaccine gives blanket immunity either has no idea what they're talking about or is willfully lying.

[1] https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/27546-vaccine-availability/#benefits-of-the-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine-comirnaty-as-shown-in-clinical-trials

Happydays2020

Blut2 wrote: »

None of the vaccines give total immunity against COVID-19. Even the most effective vaccine, the Pfizer one, only offers a 95% reduction[1] in symptomatic infection rates. Other vaccines have even lower effectiveness percentages.

You can, and plenty of people have to date, catch covid after being vaccinated. The evidence is very clear out there on this and is easily accessible. Anyone like Niner leprauchan arguing that a vaccine gives blanket immunity either has no idea what they're talking about or is willfully lying.

[1] https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/27546-vaccine-availability/#benefits-of-the-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine-comirnaty-as-shown-in-clinical-trials

The vaccines work and we are safer with them. End of.

Blut2

Happydays2020 wrote: »

The vaccines work and we are safer with them. End of.

I didn't say the vaccines don't work, or that we aren't safer with them. I'm not sure where you got either of those points from. They obviously have a very positive effect, and make everyone significantly safer.

But the proven data is very clear - they don't give total immunity. Moving forwards anyone can, and most people statistically likely will, catch covid-19 at some stage in their lives. Even if already vaccinated.

Happydays2020

Blut2 wrote: »

I didn't say the vaccines don't work, or that we aren't safer with them. I'm not sure where you got either of those points from. They obviously have a very positive effect, and make everyone significantly safer.

But the proven data is very clear - they don't give total immunity. Moving forwards anyone can, and most people statistically likely will, catch covid-19 at some stage in their lives. Even if already vaccinated.

Yes. But are they more likely to get a severe illness or die vaccinated or not?

Blut2

Blut2 wrote: »

None of the vaccines give total immunity against COVID-19. Even the most effective vaccine, the Pfizer one, only offers a 95% reduction[1] in symptomatic infection rates. Other vaccines have even lower effectiveness percentages.

No, that's not true at all. At present only 20% of infections are symptomatic to begin with. You confuse immunity with severity. It's 95% immunity and 5% that exhibit reduced symptoms.

Blut2 wrote: »

You can, and plenty of people have to date, catch covid after being vaccinated. The evidence is very clear out there on this and is easily accessible.

Yes, rare cases of infection happen. That's why it's 95% and not 100%.

Blut2 wrote: »

Anyone like Niner leprauchan arguing that a vaccine gives blanket immunity either has no idea what they're talking about or is willfully lying.

When you make statements like that, you show more about you then I. Quote me making that claim. Please quote me composed to the statements I did make:

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Now, I do realise that thats not entire life immunity and we are probable looking at boosters and I am also aware as I stated, that there are cases of people becomming reinfected.

Again, no vaccine guarantees that no person ever will get a disease. That does not mean we can't claim immunity from a disease or a vaccine cannot be considered to offer immunity when the majority that take it, are immune.

Unless you consider all the sources I linked to are also liars as you said I am?

mmclo

People need to get back to the definition of efficacy again, for Pfizer it’s not 95% of everyone, it’s 95% reduction in risk which overall is about 2%, so brings risk down from 2% to about 0.1%

Blut2

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No, that's not true at all. At present only 20% of infections are symptomatic to begin with. You confuse immunity with severity. It's 95% immunity and 5% that exhibit reduced symptoms.

I don't want to get another yellow card for being uncivil, so I'm simply going to quote myself and the government page I linked to:

Originally Posted by Blut2
None of the vaccines give total immunity against COVID-19. Even the most effective vaccine, the Pfizer one, only offers a 95% reduction[1] in symptomatic infection rates. Other vaccines have even lower effectiveness percentages.

The study showed a 95% reduction in the number of symptomatic COVID-19 cases in the people who received the vaccine

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/27546-vaccine-availability/#benefits-of-the-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine-comirnaty-as-shown-in-clinical-trials

If you think "thats not true at all" you're more than welcome to keep that odd, incorrect, belief. But you really shouldn't be spreading that misinformation. No vaccination gives 100% immunity to covid-19, the data is exceptionally clear on this.

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yes. But are they more likely to get a severe illness or die vaccinated or not?

I'm not really sure what your question is asking? I never said someone shouldn't get vaccinated?

Blut2

Blut2 wrote: »

I don't want to get another yellow card for being uncivil, so I'm simply going to quote myself and the government page I linked to:

Originally Posted by Blut2
None of the vaccines give total immunity against COVID-19. Even the most effective vaccine, the Pfizer one, only offers a 95% reduction[1] in symptomatic infection rates. Other vaccines have even lower effectiveness percentages.



https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/27546-vaccine-availability/#benefits-of-the-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine-comirnaty-as-shown-in-clinical-trials

If you think "thats not true at all" you're more than welcome to keep that odd, incorrect, belief. But you really shouldn't be spreading that misinformation. No vaccination gives 100% immunity to covid-19, the data is exceptionally clear on this.



I'm not really sure what your question is asking? I never said someone shouldn't get vaccinated?

So you arent actually addressing anything that I said but instead sticking to the words you falsely put in my mouth? You can continue to have your own private arguement

Red Silurian

Back to the topic at hand, how do people feel about the Irish govt not allowing international holidays until August, while from today our friends in the north can go to Portugal among other destinations

Personally I think it's much too early to make a call on it one way or another as a lot can happen with this virus in 3 months

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

Back to the topic at hand, how do people feel about the Irish govt not allowing international holidays until August, while from today our friends in the north can go to Portugal among other destinations

Personally I think it's much too early to make a call on it one way or another as a lot can happen with this virus in 3 months

Its from the 25th isnt it? Their website doesnt mention non essential travel without restrictions yet

Red Silurian

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Its from the 25th isnt it? Their website doesnt mention non essential travel without restrictions yet

Ah yes that's correct, just checked the bbc news site, the mainland can't even travel to NI for non-essential reasons until the 24th and Scottish islands are looking for rapid tests before arriving

Still though, it isn't August

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

Ah yes that's correct, just checked the bbc news site, the mainland can't even travel to NI for non-essential reasons until the 24th and Scottish islands are looking for rapid tests before arriving

Still though, it isn't August

very true

joseywhales

Perhaps someone covered this, but how can we prove that we are vaccinated to avoid MHQ? With the paper card? Asking before I book a flight.

saabsaab

Quote from Examiner re variants and MHQ.

Don't underestimate the role of MHQ in both limiting the influx of new variants and giving our public health teams a fighting chance to deal with those already here.

The time has now come to really ask ourselves whether selective application of MHQ to a limited list of countries is really enough?

While I’ve yet to see convincing evidence that the new Indian variant is more transmissible or virulent than P1, that’s not saying much.

Both variants have inflicted deep trauma on countries where they have become established.

The ongoing rampant spread of the Indian variant on our doorstep represents an unprecedented threat, presenting us with some stark choices we’ve been putting off for too long.

The bottom line is that if we’re serious about using MHQ to protect ourselves against more dangerous Covid variants, we will have to now apply it to our nearest neighbours in the UK and Europe with whom we share a long-standing common travel area.

If we don’t, MHQ is little more than a speed bump for such contagious new variants.

A particular concern for me has been the well-intentioned but risky delays in administering second vaccine doses in the UK.

While this accelerates the scale-up of vaccine coverage, it also presents the virus with opportunities to continue evolving.

While none of us can tell where those evolutionary processes will take us, all significant new variants we’ve seen so far represent incremental evolutionary steps toward increased transmissibility, usually accompanied by increased virulence and at least some ability to evade immune responses against its predecessors.

The worst-case scenario in which something as transmissible and virulent as P1 or the Indian variant emerges that can routinely evade our vaccines may never happen, but it’s not impossible.

WHO has described that likelihood as “when, not if” but I’m not so sure. Having said that, I certainly slept better after listening to a convincing report from Singapore about their experiences with an outbreak of B.1617.2 in Tan Tock Seng Hospital. Although the index case had been fully vaccinated and several cases occurred among vaccinated staff and patients, none of them progressed to severe disease. Unfortunately, not all of those infected who had yet to be vaccinated were so lucky.

Small numbers of breakthrough infections occur with even the most effective vaccines, so insisting on vaccination for air passengers will slow but not entirely stop the international spread of new variants.

However, full vaccine coverage will really swing the odds in our favour, allowing us to stamp out transmission one country at a time and then start to normalise travel between Covid-free countries. '

NIAC Fanboy

Aer Lingus to close their Shannon base. Well done NPHET, the government and all their cheer leaders.

Absolute destruction across all sectors.

No other country has presed the self destruct button like Ireland.

saabsaab

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

Aer Lingus to close their Shannon base. Well done NPHET, the government and all their cheer leaders.

Absolute destruction across all sectors.

No other country has presed the self destruct button like Ireland.

Happening anyway.

KanyeSouthEast

saabsaab wrote: »

Happening anyway.

Source?

saabsaab

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

Source?

Back from 2013 but shows which way thing were going.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aer-lingus-to-close-shannon-cabin-crew-base-1.1571800

NIAC Fanboy

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

Aer Lingus to close their Shannon base. Well done NPHET, the government and all their cheer leaders.

Absolute destruction across all sectors.

No other country has presed the self destruct button like Ireland.

Yep, no other country stopped flights. Except the uk, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Greece, Norway,.......

NIAC Fanboy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yep, no other country stopped flights. Except the uk, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Greece, Norway,.......

Its more than just aviation, we closed construction the longest, (did anybody else even close construction at all) hospitality probably the longest, aviation "might be back in August, or it might not"

It a ridiculous approach, akin to introducing a 10 KPH speed limit to reduce road traffic deaths.

NIAC Fanboy

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

Its more than just aviation, we closed construction the longest, (did anybody else even close construction at all) hospitality probably the longest, aviation "might be back in August, or it might not"

It a ridiculous approach, akin to introducing a 10 KPH speed limit to reduce road traffic deaths.

Well I think that speed limit would actually reduce deaths.

Your possible right in terms of length of lockdown but you make other suggestions that funny add up. Everyone closed construction.

NIAC Fanboy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Everyone closed construction.

That is not true,

Construction sites can stay open as the prime minister confirmed tonight that England would be plunged into a third national lockdown.

England didn't but our smart arses did and now the housing situation has been made even worse, along with aviation and a lot of other things due to their spineless leadership.

saabsaab

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

That is not true,

Construction sites can stay open as the prime minister confirmed tonight that England would be plunged into a third national lockdown.

England didn't but our smart arses did and now the housing situation has been made even worse, along with aviation and a lot of other things due to their spineless leadership.

There was no alternative. What would you have Brazil's policy?

NIAC Fanboy

saabsaab wrote: »

There was no alternative. What would you have Brazil's policy?

Your key word this is "was"


We have moved on a long way from January yet our island nation is without an aviation recovery plan, other than "it might be August"

ISOP

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Well I think that speed limit would actually reduce deaths.

Your possible right in terms of length of lockdown but you make other suggestions that funny add up. Everyone closed construction.

Construction was never halted in the UK, at any stage.

ISOP

ISOP wrote: »

Construction was never halted in the UK, at any stage.

Isn't Scotland in the UK?

But not in the eu. I just assumed we were only looking at the eu as a comparison and not global.

ZX7R

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Isn't Scotland in the UK?

But not in the eu. I just assumed we were only looking at the eu as a comparison and not global.

Poland never stooped construction not even last March, they did limit hardware to companies and businesses only, but construction never ceased

Red Silurian

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

Aer Lingus to close their Shannon base. Well done NPHET, the government and all their cheer leaders.

Absolute destruction across all sectors.

No other country has presed the self destruct button like Ireland.

Yes, Aer Lingus officially closing their Shannon base, something that has been slowly happening since 2013, while at the same time opening one in Manchester. So they find it viable to fly directly from MAN to North America while the USA and Canada have a ban on non-residents flying in from the CTA... It's a bit of a stretch to say this has anything to do with the pandemic

Red Silurian

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

This is a bit off-topic, but is the US ban on non-residents or non-citizens? Genuine question, it doesn't seem entirely clear to me. My first impression was that US citizens and their close family members (e.g. spouse) are free to travel to the US, but now I'm not sure if the family members need to be currently resident in the US in order to enter.

According to the CDC website citizens and lawful permanent residents of the United States, certain family members, and other individuals who meet specified exceptions

The exemptions are
Foreign diplomats traveling to the United States on A or G visas
Certain family members of above including spouses, minor children, parents (provided that his/her U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident child is unmarried and under the age of 21), and siblings (provided that both the sibling and the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident are unmarried and under the age of 21).
There is also an exception for air and sea crew traveling to the United States on C, D, or C1/D visas.

Full proclamation is available here
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/25/proclamation-on-the-suspension-of-entry-as-immigrants-and-non-immigrants-of-certain-additional-persons-who-pose-a-risk-of-transmitting-coronavirus-disease/