Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

The thread is about control on airports high risk countries. There is another thread about getting to places. I found it clear.

and whats a condescending lecture from Red Silurian got to do with the question I was answering?

saabsaab

Deleted User wrote: »

and whats a condescending lecture from Red Silurian got to do with the question I was answering?

It wasn't condescending at all, just informative. I can't see an issue. You may think this is the 'Are we there yet thread'?

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

It wasn't condescending at all, just informative. I can't see an issue. You may think this is the 'Are we there yet thread'?

when its an irrelevance to the question being asked which was whether an antigen test was sufficient to board a flight, yes it comes across as condescending. I'll leave it there.

And yes, I do frequent the "are we there yet" thread given that I do a good bit of travel.

saabsaab

Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?



Good thread title. Still relevant especially with new variants.

OwenM

saabsaab wrote: »

Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?



Good thread title. Still relevant especially with new variants.

MHQ has by now been demonstrated as a monumental waste of money and resources. None of the variants have been shown to cause any significant illness in vaccinated people. All the approved vaccines work against all the variants.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40293152.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57214596

Are we going to continue MHQ in case something which has never happened before suddenly happens?

is_that_so

OwenM wrote: »

MHQ has by now been demonstrated as a monumental waste of money and resources. None of the variants have been shown to cause any significant illness in vaccinated people. All the approved vaccines work against all the variants.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40293152.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57214596

Are we going to continue MHQ in case something which has never happened before suddenly happens?

There is a lot of public and political support for it and the government are not going to lose anything by extending it to September. By then the list should be tiny if not non-existent.

Red Silurian

Deleted User wrote: »

Right. Was that intended to be some kind of effort to educate me?

The conversation is about getting on planes

There aren't many planes you can get on without a test, I was just pointing out the different tests... Maybe not for you but it could helps somebody

maestroamado

is_that_so wrote: »

There is a lot of public and political support for it and the government are not going to lose anything by extending it to September. By then the list should be tiny if not non-existent.

Realistically can we really do our own thing if the rest of Europe is open to tourists.
There was a hint this morning that we may be opening up based on the percentage of people who have had the vaccine, i think this is to do with the fcuk in HSE.
Almost in the same breath it was mentioned that there be foreign travel late summer.

JDD

maestroamado wrote: »

Realistically can we really do our own thing if the rest of Europe is open to tourists.
There was a hint this morning that we may be opening up based on the percentage of people who have had the vaccine, i think this is to do with the fcuk in HSE.
Almost in the same breath it was mentioned that there be foreign travel late summer.

I can't see, once the European vaccine passport scheme is in place, that any tourists from EU countries will be on the MHQ list.

We may still have brazilians and indians and what not. I can't see the government being pressurised to lift restrictions on those countries just because brazillians and indians will be able to holiday freely in France or Germany.

Red Silurian

maestroamado wrote: »

Realistically can we really do our own thing if the rest of Europe is open to tourists.
There was a hint this morning that we may be opening up based on the percentage of people who have had the vaccine, i think this is to do with the fcuk in HSE.
Almost in the same breath it was mentioned that there be foreign travel late summer.

We did our own thing when Europe was opening to tourists last summer so yes I'd say is the answer.

MOH

Red Silurian wrote: »

We did our own thing when Europe was opening to tourists last summer so yes I'd say is the answer.

Not in terms of travel though. We had zero enforced restrictions until the PCR test was introduced mid-January.

Summer 2020: we're keeping all the pubs closed and have byzantine restrictions on restaurants even though we only have 10 cases a day. But people are free to come and go as they please.

Autumn 2020: we've thousands of cases every week and the vast majority are a variant that arose in Spain during the summer. Can't imagine how that happened, better close all hospitality, must have been that.

January 2021: ohhhhh.... waiiiittt... maybe it was travel? Quick, let's bring in a PCR test, blame the public and rapidly introduce harsh restrictions ... in 3 months.

Summer 2021: we've 400+ cases a day, we might finally let the pubs open, and we've less restrictions on dining. But don't think about leaving the country. It took us 9 months to bring in these restrictions, we're not getting rid of them now.

maestroamado

Red Silurian wrote: »

We did our own thing when Europe was opening to tourists last summer so yes I'd say is the answer.

We did our own thing?

I was on flights from Dublin where alot of the passengers were from NI as they had to have test before flying. We introduced the test in Jan.


One thing i cannot understand is how the EU are allowing two English teams to play a final in Portugal this weekend. For me this is crazy...

Economics101

maestroamado wrote: »

We did our own thing?

One thing i cannot understand is how the EU are allowing two English teams to play a final in Portugal this weekend. For me this is crazy...

This is a Portuguese decision, not an EU decision: for example France and Germany have individually imposed test and quarantine restrictions on travel from the UK. The Portuguese, like the Spaniards and other Mediterranean destinations are desperate to rescue their devastated tourist industries.

Initially the British fans were to be more or less corralled and restricted to a day-trip to Porto, but this has been changed and there are now no restrictions. A much riskier situation than allowing families from the UK to enjoy sunshine and outdoor dining in the Algarve.

Marcusm

leck wrote: »

I'm probably confused. I thought a PCR test was an antigen test. Presume he got a PCR test.

An antigen test looks for proteins whereas a PCR test looks for RNA fragments. These are not the same thing.

maestroamado

Economics101 wrote: »

This is a Portuguese decision, not an EU decision: for example France and Germany have individually imposed test and quarantine restrictions on travel from the UK. The Portuguese, like the Spaniards and other Mediterranean destinations are desperate to rescue their devastated tourist industries.

Initially the British fans were to be more or less corralled and restricted to a day-trip to Porto, but this has been changed and there are now no restrictions. A much riskier situation than allowing families from the UK to enjoy sunshine and outdoor dining in the Algarve.

Why did the football people simply play the game in the UK.
I actually agree they need to open up but for me this is a no-brainer...

Its looking if things go well in the next few weeks we be flying in mid July...

is_that_so

maestroamado wrote: »

Why did the football people simply play the game in the UK.
I actually agree they need to open up but for me this is a no-brainer...

Its looking if things go well in the next few weeks we be flying in mid July...

Britain would not relax quarantine restrictions for the match so UEFA opted for Porto.

Economics101

is_that_so wrote: »

Britain would not relax quarantine restrictions for the match so UEFA opted for Porto.

Given that you have 2 teams and their support staff already in the UK, the only "foreign" travellers would perhaps be match officials and a few UEFA higher-ups. Very Few people in total, yet the UK would not lift quarantine restrictions. Compared with the risks of several thousand coming back from the bars of Porto and mixing with God knows who, this seems a crazy decision.

Perhaps Mr Cummings might have a view on this!

sprucemoose

maestroamado wrote: »

Why did the football people simply play the game in the UK.

baffled by this personally too. same with the european rugby finals last weekend. 3 french teams involved and the games are in twickenham. i understand this meant there were fans allowed in (and 1 english team was playing) but still, seems like alot of unnecessary travel

Red Silurian

MOH wrote: »

Not in terms of travel though. We had zero enforced restrictions until the PCR test was introduced mid-January.

The govt will tell you we had a 2 week requirement of "restricted movements" that if 90% of us followed we would be fine

Common travel area not to be restored, despite the UK having vastly more of it's population with jabs in their arms the rest of the EU with a much lower vaccination rate is to be prioritized for international travel

The blame is being put on the Indian variant - yet India only got added to our MHQ list at the end of April and the UK is the only other country in europe with MHQ from India... Curious calls

MOH

Red Silurian wrote: »

The govt will tell you we had a 2 week requirement of "restricted movements" that if 90% of us followed we would be fine

Common travel area not to be restored, despite the UK having vastly more of it's population with jabs in their arms the rest of the EU with a much lower vaccination rate is to be prioritized for international travel

The blame is being put on the Indian variant - yet India only got added to our MHQ list at the end of April and the UK is the only other country in europe with MHQ from India... Curious calls

I totally agree with you.

The same government also decided that restaurants should keep a detailed list of everything anyone ordered, so that the Gardai could turn up and compare it against till receipts to see if anyone had a sneaky drink and only spent 8.99 on food, and reckoned that was a useful waste of everyone's time.
But didn't bother making any attempt at actually enforcing home quarantine with spot checks.
And then announced, in the only actual concrete measure of their last glorious 5-year hour plan (which I haven't heard mentioned in ages) that they would dedicate additional Garda resources to enforcing home quarantines.

Which after a month consisted of checking on something like 0.5% of arrivals , and hasn't been mentioned since.

Marcusm

Economics101 wrote: »

Given that you have 2 teams and their support staff already in the UK, the only "foreign" travellers would perhaps be match officials and a few UEFA higher-ups. Very Few people in total, yet the UK would not lift quarantine restrictions. Compared with the risks of several thousand coming back from the bars of Porto and mixing with God knows who, this seems a crazy decision.

Perhaps Mr Cummings might have a view on this!

There was a discussion of 2,000-3,000 dignitaries and hangers on who have to be accommodated irrespective of whether they would come from red list/MHQ countries from which they would be expected to be excused from lawful restrictions. They sensibly said no. Portugal will, no doubt, have issues in Porto after this but they hve hd strong restrictions on inter area travel which have only recently been lifted. I expect there’s a good chance that Porto area residents will be restricted shortly. That being said, how many of the British tourists who went to the Algarve will got to Porto for the atmosphere before returning.

Red Silurian

MOH wrote: »

I totally agree with you.

The same government also decided that restaurants should keep a detailed list of everything anyone ordered, so that the Gardai could turn up and compare it against till receipts to see if anyone had a sneaky drink and only spent 8.99 on food, and reckoned that was a useful waste of everyone's time.
But didn't bother making any attempt at actually enforcing home quarantine with spot checks.
And then announced, in the only actual concrete measure of their last glorious 5-year hour plan (which I haven't heard mentioned in ages) that they would dedicate additional Garda resources to enforcing home quarantines.

Which after a month consisted of checking on something like 0.5% of arrivals , and hasn't been mentioned since.

The 9 euro meal served a purpose of stopping pub crawls,, sure you might visit 3 pubs and do a starter/main/dessert tour but you wouldn't go any further and definitely wouldn't do it every night

Also disagree with this 105 minute/1m and 11:30 closing time rule... COVID spreads when you're within 2m for 15 minutes, at house parties and at all hours of the morning

Travel is definitely a factor in case numbers but if we stop with the silly rules in Ireland you will get less travel this summer

machiavellianme

OwenM wrote: »

MHQ has by now been demonstrated as a monumental waste of money and resources. None of the variants have been shown to cause any significant illness in vaccinated people. All the approved vaccines work against all the variants.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40293152.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57214596

Are we going to continue MHQ in case something which has never happened before suddenly happens?

It has nothing to do with vaccinated people and everything to do with protecting everyone else. Just because someone is vaccinated does not mean that they cannot spread it. Half the population isn't vaccinated yet.

Klonker

machiavellianme wrote: »

It has nothing to do with vaccinated people and everything to do with protecting everyone else. Just because someone is vaccinated does not mean that they cannot spread it. Half the population isn't vaccinated yet.

But if all the vulnerable people who are the only ones to get vulnerable disease are vaccinated then what is to gain by waiting until everyone else who are not at risk are vaccinated?

A lot of scientists/experts worldwide don't even think we (first world countries) should vaccinate under 30s right now and give our vaccines to the rest of the world. That's how unworried they are about under 30s getting vaccinated as it won't make much of a difference to numbers if people dieing or getting severe disease from covid. But sure never mind any of that, let's keep locking people up way longer than needed just incase at huge cist to the country.

is_that_so

Klonker wrote: »

But if all the vulnerable people who are the only ones to get vulnerable disease are vaccinated then what is to gain by waiting until everyone else who are not at risk are vaccinated?

A lot of scientists/experts worldwide don't even think we (first world countries) should vaccinate under 30s right now and give our vaccines to the rest of the world. That's how unworried they are about under 30s getting vaccinated as it won't make much of a difference to numbers if people dieing or getting severe disease from covid. But sure never mind any of that, let's keep locking people up way longer than needed just incase at huge cist to the country.

It'll still leave us and other countries at under 70% vaccinated and most of the noise about other countries is agenda driven, either by vested political interests or by scientists who would never have to make a public decision in their lives. We should see more activity on those from from July onwards and probably at a much higher level.

Klonker

is_that_so wrote: »

It'll still leave us and other countries at under 70% vaccinated and most of the noise about other countries is agenda driven, either by vested political interests or by scientists who would never have to make a public decision in their lives. We should see more activity on those from from July onwards and probably at a much higher level.

But why is under 70% vaccinated an issue? From what we're hearing from health experts internationally is that covid is something we're going to have to live with for the medium term anyway but the vaccines will make it as not as big an issue and it'll be more on terms with flu in terms of deaths and people getting severe illness. Is herd immunity even possible? Is it a big deal if 30% of the least likely of the population to get severe covid aren't vaccinated? Also, when we go down the ages less and less will want the virus, even we get 80% of adults to take it that's great in my opinion, particularly if we have 90%+ in the most vulnerable categories. I just don't think mandatory quarentine and other harsh restrictions we have here are in line with the current risks from the virus.

Taking Dublin City Centre last night, obviously all those young people aren't too worried about things, are these the people we are holding up the reopening so they can have their vaccines? It doesnt look like any of those are afraid to go out living their lives while still awaiting their vaccine.

machiavellianme

Klonker wrote: »

But if all the vulnerable people who are the only ones to get vulnerable disease are vaccinated then what is to gain by waiting until everyone else who are not at risk are vaccinated?

A lot of scientists/experts worldwide don't even think we (first world countries) should vaccinate under 30s right now and give our vaccines to the rest of the world. That's how unworried they are about under 30s getting vaccinated as it won't make much of a difference to numbers if people dieing or getting severe disease from covid. But sure never mind any of that, let's keep locking people up way longer than needed just incase at huge cist to the country.

Tell that to my 26 year old friend who is on a ventilator for the last few days despite being fit and healthy with no previous condition that he knows about. Still touch and go. The airports and ports should have been locked down day 1 and no flying off for a jolly in the sun or to see the folks at Christmas till everyone is vaccinated.

Blut2

machiavellianme wrote: »

Tell that to my 26 year old friend who is on a ventilator for the last few days despite being fit and healthy with no previous condition that he knows about. Still touch and go. The airports and ports should have been locked down day 1 and no flying off for a jolly in the sun or to see the folks at Christmas till everyone is vaccinated.

Its very unfortunate your friend has suffered greatly, but young people die from the flu or other diseases every year too. There will unfortunately always be outliers. The statistics don't lie - under 30s are at no more risk from corona than from 'normal' flu. And that demographic has very low uptake of flu vaccines in a normal year, yet that doesn't cause society to shut down. Part of living life is accepting an inherent level of risk.

The statistics show that the most at risk 20% of the population are responsible for 99% of hospitalizations and deaths. So once they're fully vaccinated theres no real scientific justification for staying locked down.

Corona is never going away now, its here to stay. We're never going to have everyone vaccinated. No country on Earth has - even Israel is nowhere near 100% of the population vaccinated, despite everyone having had the opportunity now for months there. So at some stage you just have to open up, unless you plan to stay permanently locked down, for the rest of time.

M_Murphy57

machiavellianme wrote: »

Tell that to my 26 year old friend who is on a ventilator for the last few days despite being fit and healthy with no previous condition that he knows about. Still touch and go. The airports and ports should have been locked down day 1 and no flying off for a jolly in the sun or to see the folks at Christmas till everyone is vaccinated.

Did your friend catch Corona at the airport or what is the link? I presume he WFH, didn't socialise etc and travel is therefore the only explanation ?

It is genuinely unfortunate this has happened to him. Severe cases in young people with no other conditions are in the minutae/total outliers.

Red Silurian

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

It is genuinely unfortunate this has happened to him. Severe cases in young people with no other conditions are in the minutae/total outliers.

They are becoming more common lately though

Few reasons behind it are because the younger people are spreading the virus more and the elderly/vulnerable are vaccinated so aren't appearing in the hospitals as much

At an average of 400 daily cases it was inevitable