Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Dubl07

Alkers wrote: »

Is there anywhere I can report people I know not to be self isolating following travel abroad? In this instance Dubai - UK - Dublin, all documented on social media

It would be useful to have sensible advice on this instead of the rather juvenile sniping about 'Stasi'.

In the absence of that, if enough of us phone the local gardai and report, walk away from a restaurant where we're not happy about matters (explaining and leaving a token fee) and keep emailing our public representatives and media about our concerns, the so-called HSA might finally be told to enforce matters by whoever is currently running the government.

PhilOssophy

I doubt visiting family is essential at the moment.....and if you are coming here, do us all a favour and self-isolate for 14 days first.

joseywhales

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I doubt visiting family is essential at the moment.....and if you are coming here, do us all a favour and self-isolate for 14 days first.

Absolutely, that is the advise, I am following all of it as it stands.

Alkers

faceman wrote: »

You want to report someone for not breaking any laws?

I had understood it was the law, didn't realise it was as weak as simply a recommendation. Fairly makes a joke about the whole thing in comparison to how well other nations enforce it

Fr Tod Umptious

Alkers wrote: »

I had understood it was the law, didn't realise it was as weak as simply a recommendation. Fairly makes a joke about the whole thing in comparison to how well other nations enforce it

Well your original post said they came via UK.
That's the problem right there.
Unless you shut the border with NI and stop all access across the Irish Sea then there is nothing they can do only recommend.

Alkers

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well your original post said they came via UK.
That's the problem right there.
Unless you shut the border with NI and stop all access across the Irish Sea then there is nothing they can do only recommend.

Well they could still make the self isolation mandatory for countries not on the green list without physically stopping all access.

PhilOssophy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Unless you shut the border with NI and stop all access across the Irish Sea then there is nothing they can do only recommend.

Well Simon Coveney could pick up the phone to Whitehall and say "Here lads, can we agree a common approach to this thing between NI and ROI, our numbers are going through the roof and people are using NI as a loophole."

To me, that is the starting point.

PhilOssophy

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Well Simon Coveney could pick up the phone to Whitehall and say "Here lads, can we agree a common approach to this thing between NI and ROI, our numbers are going through the roof and people are using NI as a loophole."

To me, that is the starting point.

Why would we do that now? If we were going to do this it would have been done weeks or months ago. Now it’s about trying to normalise as much as we can

fly_agaric

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Well Simon Coveney could pick up the phone to Whitehall and say "Here lads, can we agree a common approach to this thing between NI and ROI, our numbers are going through the roof and people are using NI as a loophole."

To me, that is the starting point.

I don't know if it is our starting point. I think discussions with NI about single approach were tried and knocked back. I doubt the current leadership in UK will be inclined to take up anything suggested by Ireland. We should control what we can control here first.

NI is in another country after all no matter how many in Ireland might wish it were not so, or how Ireland tries to make the reality more paletable and smooth things over by giving out passports like sweets, keeping the Common Travel Area with the UK and having an open border with NI.

UK/NI are not even in the EU any more now, the pretense here about the status of NI is going to run up very hard against Brexit quite soon IMO.

PhilOssophy

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would we do that now? If we were going to do this it would have been done weeks or months ago. Now it’s about trying to normalise as much as we can

Well I have heard infectious disease experts saying that the difference between getting rid of this and normalising it is roughly 4-5 years. I really don't want to live with this sh1t for 4-5 years.

I know there will likely be a vaccine in the meantime, but I am in the "get rid of this crap" camp.

theological

fly_agaric wrote: »

I don't know if it is our starting point. I think discussions with NI about single approach were tried and knocked back. I doubt the current leadership in UK will be inclined to take up anything suggested by Ireland. We should control what we can control here first.

NI is in another country after all no matter how many in Ireland might wish it were not so, or how Ireland tries to make the reality more paletable and smooth things over by giving out passports like sweets, keeping the Common Travel Area with the UK and having an open border with NI.

UK/NI are not even in the EU any more now, the pretense here about the status of NI is going to run up very hard against Brexit quite soon IMO.

There is no obligation in NI to follow Irish policy. It is a part of the UK. At the moment the UK as a whole has a lower prevalence of the virus than Ireland does. There is an increase of cases in Northern Ireland at the moment, but the picture is similar in the Republic from what I can see, unless I am missing something.

Edit: Ireland should be enforcing its own laws first. The approach on quarantine has been very light.

fly_agaric

theological wrote: »

There is no obligation in NI to follow Irish policy. It is a part of the UK. At the moment the UK as a whole has a lower prevalence of the virus than Ireland does. There is an increase of cases in Northern Ireland at the moment, but the picture is similar in the Republic from what I can see, unless I am missing something.

Edit: Ireland should be enforcing its own laws first. The approach on quarantine has been very light.

You are reiterating my point. It is obvious we can't affect what NI or UK do or close the land border. We need to control the other points of entry more effectively first (as per your edit, we have not done that) and see what effect that policy change has on our levels of cases. I'm not blaming the UK or whatever as you seem to have assumed - it is just IMO, inward travel, even if countries currently have similar incidence of the virus, is a source of cases outside our control here and contact tracing/testing etc may not work on it. I am unsure if they can even quantify it as a source of cases. NPHET has been suggesting to government to do something more about inward travel for a long time but it has been very slow for anything to happen really.

PhilOssophy

fly_agaric wrote: »

You are reiterating my point. It is obvious we can't affect what NI or UK do or close the land border. We need to control the other points of entry more effectively first (as per your edit, we have not done that) and see what effect that policy change has on our levels of cases. I'm not blaming the UK or whatever as you seem to have assumed - it is just IMO, inward travel, even if countries currently have similar incidence of the virus, is a source of cases outside our control here and contact tracing/testing etc may not work on it. I am unsure if they can even quantify it as a source of cases. NPHET has been suggesting to government to do something more about inward travel for a long time but it has been very slow for anything to happen really.

Did I read this correctly - you think inward travel is something we can't do anything about?

fly_agaric

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Did I read this correctly - you think inward travel is something we can't do anything about?

No, I think we can do something about it (by controlling inward travel involving airports and ports in the state better) but not resolve it completely/fully without cooperation from UK due to the NI border. That cooperation is unlikely to be forthcoming.

Something is better than very little/nothing. I think the benefits will outweigh the costs but obviously our politicians (and maybe % of the public who really want to travel in and out of Ireland to UK, Europe, Rest of the World as freely as before Covid-19) don't agree.

Ah, my writing quality seems to be poor, and I'm just creating confusion.
I should probably stop posting on the thread now...

PhilOssophy

fly_agaric wrote: »

No, I think we can do something about it (by controlling inward travel involving airports and ports in the state better) but not resolve it completely/fully without cooperation from UK due to the NI border. That cooperation is unlikely to be forthcoming.

Something is better than very little/nothing. I think the benefits will outweigh the costs but obviously our politicians (and maybe % of the public who really want to travel in and out of Ireland to UK, Europe, Rest of the World as freely as before Covid-19) don't agree.

Ah, my writing quality seems to be poor, and I'm just creating confusion.
I should probably stop posting on the thread now...

Get you now....agree entirely! I am still not convinced that an All-Island approach isn't possible.

I am very much in the "I'd love to travel" camp, but I just don't think it is fair for me to be that selfish while nurses and doctors risk their lives. I am not that selfish or self-entitled. There will be better days ahead when travelling and holidays abroad will be enjoyable, at the moment I can't see how they would be.

Limpy

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Get you now....agree entirely! I am still not convinced that an All-Island approach isn't possible.

I am very much in the "I'd love to travel" camp, but I just don't think it is fair for me to be that selfish while nurses and doctors risk their lives. I am not that selfish or self-entitled. There will be better days ahead when travelling and holidays abroad will be enjoyable, at the moment I can't see how they would be.

So by your logic any unemployed people offered work in meat factories are selfish? That's where the big covid numbers are, not travel. If I travel to Estonia, very very little covid numbers I am selfish. Your delusional if you think that.

theological

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Get you now....agree entirely! I am still not convinced that an All-Island approach isn't possible.

I am very much in the "I'd love to travel" camp, but I just don't think it is fair for me to be that selfish while nurses and doctors risk their lives. I am not that selfish or self-entitled. There will be better days ahead when travelling and holidays abroad will be enjoyable, at the moment I can't see how they would be.

An all-Ireland approach won't be possible for as long as the Republic insists that travellers from the UK must quarantine for 14 days. NI will never ask British travellers to quarantine.

Given that the UK currently has a lower incidence of the virus, perhaps removing the quarantine from there could be sensible at this point.

Username2017

I’ve come home from America for a few weeks, they are being a lot safer out there than they are here. I know the numbers are a lot different but it makes me laugh when I see these judgy posts. Also Ive only 2 people who’ve tested positive since this began. Neither of which were sick. CNN is like watching Comedy Central.

saabsaab

Unnecessary travel is how this got from China to the rest of the world. It is also how it is still being spread now. Crazy it isn't stopped.

Limpy

saabsaab wrote: »

Unnecessary travel is how this got from China to the rest of the world. It is also how it is still being spread now. Crazy it isn't stopped.

I don't know if anyone is travelling to China or returning for that matter. Since you want travel stopped put up the stats that back up your claim that people from China have imported covid in lets say the last 2 month's.

MickeyLeari

The reality is that to follow a Zero Covid strategy means completely closed borders including with NI, mandatory State Controlled quarantine for returning citizens, another severe lockdown (probably locking down risk areas also) and then following no cases for a series of weeks there should be a possibility to open up to normality.

Aside from the fact that we are an open economy, are a member of the EU with the right of freedom of movement, have people who commute to work in other countries, have many people who have roots and second homes on other EU countries - there is no way in hell that any Irish Government will put up a physical border with NI, there is no way that the NI Govt. will diverge from the UK, and even if the UK was to follow a zero strategy it would not be politically possible for Ireland to align with the UK and close our borders to the EU.

Therefore, all we can do is to have far stricter rules in respect to travellers from non EU countries (including citizens) and to maintain the current position in respect to Green lists and I think the EU.

PhilOssophy

theological wrote: »

An all-Ireland approach won't be possible for as long as the Republic insists that travellers from the UK must quarantine for 14 days. NI will never ask British travellers to quarantine.

Given that the UK currently has a lower incidence of the virus, perhaps removing the quarantine from there could be sensible at this point.

Well Britain had no problem on a whim asking their citizens returning from France to quarantine last night, why are we so reluctant to ask similar questions and ask them if we can agree an all-island approach?

I dunno, I am not an infectious disease expert but most models are suggesting that if we decide to "learn to live" with this, it will go on for 4 years. Crazy to think that rather than ask a few difficult questions, and try to work out an approach that helps deal with what we can control, we seem to think that asking awkward questions is a no-no.

The green lists are BS because there is no guarantee that there isn't thousands of asymptomatic cases in these countries, or that people are being tested as soon as symptoms appear, and that countries wouldn't fudge the numbers to suit themselves staying on such a list.

Whether or not we are part of the EU, all bets are very much off at the moment and every country can decide themselves what is best. If Ireland and Britain could come to a consensus which works for both (and apart from each other, we are islands from anybody else) to me that would seem the smartest way forward.

MickeyLeari

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Well Britain had no problem on a whim asking their citizens returning from France to quarantine last night, why are we so reluctant to ask similar questions and ask them if we can agree an all-island approach?

I dunno, I am not an infectious disease expert but most models are suggesting that if we decide to "learn to live" with this, it will go on for 4 years. Crazy to think that rather than ask a few difficult questions, and try to work out an approach that helps deal with what we can control, we seem to think that asking awkward questions is a no-no.

The green lists are BS because there is no guarantee that there isn't thousands of asymptomatic cases in these countries, or that people are being tested as soon as symptoms appear, and that countries wouldn't fudge the numbers to suit themselves staying on such a list.

Whether or not we are part of the EU, all bets are very much off at the moment and every country can decide themselves what is best. If Ireland and Britain could come to a consensus which works for both (and apart from each other, we are islands from anybody else) to me that would seem the smartest way forward.

Indeed Dermot MacMurrough believed that a similar strategy in 1170 was the smartest way forward.

theological

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Well Britain had no problem on a whim asking their citizens returning from France to quarantine last night, why are we so reluctant to ask similar questions and ask them if we can agree an all-island approach?

I dunno, I am not an infectious disease expert but most models are suggesting that if we decide to "learn to live" with this, it will go on for 4 years. Crazy to think that rather than ask a few difficult questions, and try to work out an approach that helps deal with what we can control, we seem to think that asking awkward questions is a no-no.

The green lists are BS because there is no guarantee that there isn't thousands of asymptomatic cases in these countries, or that people are being tested as soon as symptoms appear, and that countries wouldn't fudge the numbers to suit themselves staying on such a list.

Whether or not we are part of the EU, all bets are very much off at the moment and every country can decide themselves what is best. If Ireland and Britain could come to a consensus which works for both (and apart from each other, we are islands from anybody else) to me that would seem the smartest way forward.

France isn't a part of the UK. Northern Ireland is. They aren't going to impose restrictions from people travelling from Britain, particularly when Britain has fewer cases per 100,000 than Ireland does right now.

If you want an all-Ireland policy the Republic will also need to compromise.

Away With The Fairies

I thought they were going to do something about the flights coming from America. Why are there 4 flights from America coming in tomorrow morning and 3 on Monday morning?

Oranage2

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I thought they were going to do something about the flights coming from America. Why are there 4 flights from America coming in tomorrow morning and 3 on Monday morning?

The arrest of Aaron Brady shows me how close Ireland and the USA. No way Ireland we will stop these tourists coming, even though we should, possible covid cases is less important to us than rocking the boat with the US

whisky_galore

Oranage2 wrote: »

The arrest of Aaron Brady shows me how close Ireland and the USA. No way Ireland we will stop these tourists coming, even though we should, possible covid cases is less important to us than rocking the boat with the US

Unless he went to some failed state without a functioning govt he would have been caught. The fact he hung around with Irish people in a place frequented by Irish meant that happened sooner rather than later.

gral6

Ireland is much more dangerous than the USA now. It tells you how ridiculous Irish green list is. Shambles

PhilOssophy

Oranage2 wrote: »

The arrest of Aaron Brady shows me how close Ireland and the USA. No way Ireland we will stop these tourists coming, even though we should, possible covid cases is less important to us than rocking the boat with the US

So, you think if we stopped the arrival of flights (which the US had no problem doing to us a few weeks ago) that all law and order surrounding arrest warrants for a dangerous murderer will become a case of "Sorry, you stopped our flights, f off"? Really?

Limpy

Or...

If we stopped those flights would we still have meat factory clusters and house parties? Yes.

Ok move along.