Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

bluelamp

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I thought they were going to do something about the flights coming from America. Why are there 4 flights from America coming in tomorrow morning and 3 on Monday morning?

Do you think that post, packages, medical equipment and chemicals, perishable goods, bodies being repatriated, and other cargo swims to Ireland?

Flights carry more than tourists... those flights are next to empty, regardless of what the daily mail might tell you. And either way.... travel has been the cause of a tiny percentage of cases.

fly_agaric

30 % of cases that have been detected so far, it was never identified where it came from. I think that is running at ~ 10-20 % over last while (?), so better than in earlier phase of pandemic but still poor. By definition IMO the 'travel related' cases cannot be higher than cases due to 'close contacts'.
The way this virus spreads quietly makes it very hard imo to ever find an origin point. A new cluster just pops into existence and will grow out given the right/wrong conditions (e.g. factories), the new cases will then be classified as close contacts for some existing case but no one knows where or when the starting point arose. As said before I don't think effect of inward travel on our number of cases can be quantified properly. The 2% or so (over all time since March) is a lower bound.

PhilOssophy

fly_agaric wrote: »

30 % of cases that have been detected so far, it was never identified where it came from. I think that is running at ~ 10-20 % over last while (?), so better than in earlier phase of pandemic but still poor. By definition IMO the 'travel related' cases cannot be higher than cases due to 'close contacts'.
The way this virus spreads quietly makes it very hard imo to ever find an origin point. A new cluster just pops into existence and will grow out given the right/wrong conditions (e.g. factories), the new cases will then be classified as close contacts for some existing case but no one knows where or when the starting point arose. As said before I don't think effect of inward travel on our number of cases can be quantified properly. The 2% or so (over all time since March) is a lower bound.

I think that is the point, people say it has accounted for very few cases but the reality is the virus was brought to Ireland by travel, has spread by the same people and by its nature if somebody is asymptomatic it just has to be put down as "community transmission".

I heard an infectious disease specialist say if we had another 4 week lockdown and had proper quarantine controls at the airport, we could kill this thing off. Now admittedly that was before the NZ re-emergence but I'd imagine most Irish people would gladly sacrifice foreign travel and Uncle Sam's dollars for a functioning Irish life, no?

Limpy

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I think that is the point, people say it has accounted for very few cases but the reality is the virus was brought to Ireland by travel, has spread by the same people and by its nature if somebody is asymptomatic it just has to be put down as "community transmission".

I heard an infectious disease specialist say if we had another 4 week lockdown and had proper quarantine controls at the airport, we could kill this thing off. Now admittedly that was before the NZ re-emergence but I'd imagine most Irish people would gladly sacrifice foreign travel and Uncle Sam's dollars for a functioning Irish life, no?

Ok just say it was killed off today is the end of week 4, what now?

PhilOssophy

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I think that is the point, people say it has accounted for very few cases but the reality is the virus was brought to Ireland by travel, has spread by the same people and by its nature if somebody is asymptomatic it just has to be put down as "community transmission".

I heard an infectious disease specialist say if we had another 4 week lockdown and had proper quarantine controls at the airport, we could kill this thing off. Now admittedly that was before the NZ re-emergence but I'd imagine most Irish people would gladly sacrifice foreign travel and Uncle Sam's dollars for a functioning Irish life, no?

I agree with this. Why are we ignoring our experts? This virus was nearly gone in June. Probably down to a few hundred cases. Our weak link is poor controls in our airports/ports. That is what brought it back. All this demonising of young people/meat plants is the effects and not the cause. How many outbreaks in meat plants did we have when cases were very low in June/July. Once cases reach a certain point enivatbly it will get into meat plants/nursing homes/homes. Scientists must be pulling their hair as it is plain as the nose on your head. Stricter quarantine/border controls. Every country is waiting for science to catch up with effective treatment/vaccine.

gral6

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with this. Why are we ignoring our experts? This virus was nearly gone in June. Probably down to a few hundred cases. Our weak link is poor controls in our airports/ports. That is what brought it back. All this demonising of young people/meat plants is the effects and not the cause. How many outbreaks in meat plants did we have when cases were very low in June/July. Once cases reach a certain point enivatbly it will get into meat plants/nursing homes/homes. Scientists must be pulling their hair as it is plain as the nose on your head. Stricter quarantine/border controls. Every country is waiting for science to catch up with effective treatment/vaccine.

The virus is gonna be with us, just get used to it now.

bluelamp

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This virus was nearly gone in June. Probably down to a few hundred cases. Our weak link is poor controls in our airports/ports. That is what brought it back.

Nothing you said there is true. Nothing.

We have a tiny amount of travel related cases.

You cant "bring something back" when it wasnt gone in the first place.

Tenzor07

bluelamp wrote: »

Nothing you said there is true. Nothing.
We have a tiny amount of travel related cases.
You cant "bring something back" when it wasnt gone in the first place.

Exactly! NZ thought the virus was gone and maybe it was complacency led to a new outbreak where people led the guard down...

Closing big borders can't stop a Microscopic virus once it's already in a country...

PhilOssophy

bluelamp wrote: »

Nothing you said there is true. Nothing.

We have a tiny amount of travel related cases.

You cant "bring something back" when it wasnt gone in the first place.

We have a tiny amount of travel related cases because they are just put down to "Community Transmission". If I went out shopping tomorrow and caught it off somebody who had just landed from Texas, it would be put down to community transmission, because I wasn't out of the country.

Daft logic.

saabsaab

It is ultimately all travel related. I wonder how those meat factory cases started?

gral6

saabsaab wrote: »

It is ultimately all travel related. I wonder how those meat factory cases started?

You can ultimately stay at home and save lifes.

bodhrandude

As far as I know one of the first documented meat factory cases was the Fermoy factory in Cork, that occurred sometime in the middle of June I think.

PhilOssophy

Professor Anthony Staines was on the radio last night saying that the lack of quarantine for people arriving in the country and the lack of follow up is one of the key issues which needs to be dealt with.
I presume NPHET proposed something similar but the government just ignored the recommendation, but had no problem stopping people attending sporting events and making everybody work from home while Hank enjoys his holiday.
It is absolute madness.

is_that_so

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Professor Anthony Staines was on the radio last night saying that the lack of quarantine for people arriving in the country and the lack of follow up is one of the key issues which needs to be dealt with.
I presume NPHET proposed something similar but the government just ignored the recommendation, but had no problem stopping people attending sporting events and making everybody work from home while Hank enjoys his holiday.
It is absolute madness.

3 out of every 100 cases are travel related according to Donnelly so you can see why they are not too pushed there. Staines is a Zero-COVID zealot anyway and would have us at Phase 1 all over again right now.

fly_agaric

3 out of every 100 cases are travel related according to Donnelly so you can see why they are not too pushed there

NPHET are "pushed" I think in sense they asked for additional controls over inward travel to be implemented many, many times but have obviously been told by both prior & current governments that it is not happening no matter what! No point in flogging a dead horse.
When we had reached low case numbers towards the end of harsh 'lockdown' period, inward travel was actually accounting for a significant % of new cases.
Sure the more the virus spreads about here (as it is beginning to do, with larger numbers of cases detected the last couple of weeks), the less important inward travel is and other countries will be restricting our citizens anyway if it continues to deteriorate.

is_that_so

fly_agaric wrote: »

NPHET are "pushed" I think in sense they asked for additional controls over inward travel to be implemented many, many times but have obviously been told by both prior & current governments that it is not happening no matter what! No point in flogging a dead horse.

There are both economic and EU considerations at work here anyway but there is no reason why they shouldn't be tracking the forms better. 2% of normal passenger numbers and 3 cases in 100 don't really cut the mustard for the NPHET insistence on more controls. Random testing is coming but after all the mass testing that's planned.

fly_agaric

is_that_so wrote: »

There are both economic and EU considerations at work here anyway but there is no reason why they shouldn't be tracking the forms better. 2% of normal passenger numbers and 3 cases in 100 don't really cut the mustard for the NPHET insistence on more controls. Random testing is coming but after all the mass testing that's planned.

As I posted before 3 % is a lower bound given the large "community transmission" figures. As above, as it gets worse and begins to spread about (which it may be doing) travel really becomes a drop in the bucket.
Also random testing will give them an idea of the risk levels involved in inward travel from certain regions (where governments may be lying/"juking" their stats etc) so that is good, but as an actual "control" it is not much use.

wandererz

Lock everyone down for 2 weeks.
Everyone, everything. Just remain at home.

Job done.

gral6

wandererz wrote: »

Lock everyone down for 2 weeks.
Everyone, everything. Just remain at home.

Job done.

Lock up yourself for the rest of your life and enjoy

joseywhales

The common denominator is testing, availability of tests and speed of results. We are 6 months in, you still cant get a test at will and you still can't get a result in 24 hours. This is the problem, everything else is guesswork and mitigation.

PhilOssophy

is_that_so wrote: »

3 out of every 100 cases are travel related according to Donnelly so you can see why they are not too pushed there. Staines is a Zero-COVID zealot anyway and would have us at Phase 1 all over again right now.

You/Donnelly can't say that with even the tiniest bit of confidence that 3 out of 100 cases are travel related.
3 out of 100 might be related to somebody returning from somewhere with Covid-19, but an asymptomatic person might bring it in and give it to 50 people and all go down as "community transmission", on top of the other 50 who get it through "close contact" with these people.....
I think the government must be in denial as to how much of a problem this is, I don't see how they can't see this.
Staines probably is a zero-Covid zealot but given where we are at now, that sounds good to me rather than living my life with these poxy restrictions for the next few years for the sake of letting a few yanks in the gate!

lawrencesummers

joseywhales wrote: »

The common denominator is testing, availability of tests and speed of results. We are 6 months in, you still cant get a test at will and you still can't get a result in 24 hours. This is the problem, everything else is guesswork and mitigation.

The problem ultimately is that we are still behind the virus, we are still tracking and tracing it (badly).

We have not moved to be ahead of it yet and that is done by as you said testing and quick turnaround times for results. One of the key areas for detecting the virus is inward travel, and then high risk workplaces, frontline staff etc etc.

The idea that we allow something contagious with 60-70% asymptomatic multiple day spread run free before it is eventually detected and then try to work backwards to limit something that has already spread is NEVER GOING TO WORK.

We live on a big ranch with a massive stable of horses, The stale door is open, we know its open But we are going to wait a few days until a neighbor brings back one horse just to be sure that it is open before we go about rounding up the rest of the horses.

Lunacy.

saabsaab

Trying to empty the bath but leaving the taps still running

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The problem ultimately is that we are still behind the virus, we are still tracking and tracing it (badly).

We have not moved to be ahead of it yet and that is done by as you said testing and quick turnaround times for results. One of the key areas for detecting the virus is inward travel, and then high risk workplaces, frontline staff etc etc.

The idea that we allow something contagious with 60-70% asymptomatic multiple day spread run free before it is eventually detected and then try to work backwards to limit something that has already spread is NEVER GOING TO WORK.

We live on a big ranch with a massive stable of horses, The stale door is open, we know its open But we are going to wait a few days until a neighbor brings back one horse just to be sure that it is open before we go about rounding up the rest of the horses.

Lunacy.

I don't understand the approach.

Why are politicians from the start saying we cannot control our borders and made no attempt.

We could be back living a more normal life minus trips abroad. I think we could all live without foreign holidays. All the scientists are saying the same. Zero covid policy until vaccine =control borders.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-china-53816511&ved=2ahUKEwijic-FgajrAhXTbsAKHYNTBm0Q0PADegQICxAI&usg=AOvVaw3j3rguElZKua359VBd1X3b&ampcf=1

Bet you these guys aren't letting Americans just arrive in without proper quarantine

gral6

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand the approach.

Why are politicians from the start saying we cannot control our borders and made no attempt.

We could be back living a more normal life minus trips abroad. I think we could all live without foreign holidays. All the scientists are saying the same. Zero covid policy until vaccine =control borders.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-china-53816511&ved=2ahUKEwijic-FgajrAhXTbsAKHYNTBm0Q0PADegQICxAI&usg=AOvVaw3j3rguElZKua359VBd1X3b&ampcf=1

Bet you these guys aren't letting Americans just arrive in without proper quarantine

Say for yourself. No one forces you to go anywhere. Dig up your own bunker and enjoy your virus free life.

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The problem ultimately is that we are still behind the virus, we are still tracking and tracing it (badly).

We have not moved to be ahead of it yet and that is done by as you said testing and quick turnaround times for results. One of the key areas for detecting the virus is inward travel, and then high risk workplaces, frontline staff etc etc.

The idea that we allow something contagious with 60-70% asymptomatic multiple day spread run free before it is eventually detected and then try to work backwards to limit something that has already spread is NEVER GOING TO WORK.

We live on a big ranch with a massive stable of horses, The stale door is open, we know its open But we are going to wait a few days until a neighbor brings back one horse just to be sure that it is open before we go about rounding up the rest of the horses.

Lunacy.

gral6 wrote: »

Say for yourself. No one forces you to go anywhere. Dig up your own bunker and enjoy your virus free life.

No bunker here. :pac:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-china-53816511&ved=2ahUKEwijic-FgajrAhXTbsAKHYNTBm0Q0PADegQICxAI&usg=AOvVaw3j3rguElZKua359VBd1X3b&ampcf=1

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand the approach.

Why are politicians from the start saying we cannot control our borders and made no attempt.

We could be back living a more normal life minus trips abroad. I think we could all live without foreign holidays. All the scientists are saying the same. Zero covid policy until vaccine =control borders.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-china-53816511&ved=2ahUKEwijic-FgajrAhXTbsAKHYNTBm0Q0PADegQICxAI&usg=AOvVaw3j3rguElZKua359VBd1X3b&ampcf=1

Bet you these guys aren't letting Americans just arrive in without proper quarantine

the most telling part of that article is the level of testing....A city of 11 million people

, and about 9.9 million people in the city have been tested for the virus.



Our testing is till reactionary and limited.

MickeyLeari

lawrencesummers wrote: »

the most telling part of that article is the level of testing....A city of 11 million people

, and about 9.9 million people in the city have been tested for the virus.



Our testing is till reactionary and limited.

Maybe the whole country should be getting a weekly test!

lawrencesummers

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Maybe the whole country should be getting a weekly test!

Not the entire country, but a hell of a lot more testing should be done.

If you blanket tested the three counties that were locked down if you tell you the scale of the problem accurately.

Tenzor07

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Maybe the whole country should be getting a weekly test!

And give everyone a nice little yellow badge to show they were tested, otherwise ban them from all public places.