Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

theological

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Full article https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/severe-criticism-of-lack-of-covid-19-testing-at-irish-airports-39557095.html

Put some trained monkeys pumped up on Adderall in the Dáil

We'd get better fúking results

Testing at airports isn't useful. Iceland rolled this back because people were testing negative only to develop symptoms later. You can get false negatives early in the incubation period.

Quarantine is still required for several days first.

theological

theological wrote: »

Testing at airports isn't useful. Iceland rolled this back because people were testing negative only to develop symptoms later. You can get false negatives early in the incubation period.

Quarantine is still required for several days first.

The way things are done here it’s suggested more so than required.

munchkin_utd

theological wrote: »

Testing at airports isn't useful. Iceland rolled this back because people were testing negative only to develop symptoms later. You can get false negatives early in the incubation period.

Quarantine is still required for several days first.

so, the plan that Germany is bringing in on October 1st might be of interest, thats 5 days quarantine and THEN a test when coming from high risk countries

Information has been patchy on how that fits into the bigger plan, but there is a will to allow more travel but in a safe way, and to save the airlines.
Kindof the opposite of Ireland which wants as little travel as possible and bankrupt the airlines, and entire tourism industry.

Tenzor07

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Information has been patchy on how that fits into the bigger plan, but there is a will to allow more travel but in a safe way, and to save the airlines.
Kindof the opposite of Ireland which wants as little travel as possible and bankrupt the airlines, and entire tourism industry.

NPHET-FFFG want no travel, no tourists, no viable aviation sector or airports, decimate taxi business in the main cities, close majority of Pub and Hotels, and decimate business in the West and South of the country due to no flight connections.. Roll on Brexit, can't be any worse?

faceman

This thread has become largely ironic given Ireland is now considered a high risk country to some and we will be on the EU’s red list next month

Funny, we can’t attribute travel as the reason for the second wave

ShineOn7

faceman wrote: »

Funny, we can’t attribute travel as the reason for the second wave

In the same way schools aren't responsible for some of it?

Our laughable airports and "follow up" on quarantines aren't attributed to it because neither NPHET or the government want to admit they've made a complete balls of things

Happydays2020

faceman wrote: »

This thread has become largely ironic given Ireland is now considered a high risk country to some and we will be on the EU’s red list next month

Funny, we can’t attribute travel as the reason for the second wave

Agree but the die hards will still say that all 30000 cases ultimately relate to travel.

VG31

faceman wrote: »

This thread has become largely ironic given Ireland is now considered a high risk country to some and we will be on the EU’s red list next month

Funny, we can’t attribute travel as the reason for the second wave

The EU might have to change their criteria soon or else most of the EU will be on the red list, rendering it fairly pointless.

saabsaab

Shoe on the other foot now as other countries are stopping Irish without quarantine, from visiting. Like we should have done.

theological

faceman wrote: »

This thread has become largely ironic given Ireland is now considered a high risk country to some and we will be on the EU’s red list next month

Funny, we can’t attribute travel as the reason for the second wave

In the UK the ONS coronavirus study shows that there is a higher rate of infection in those who travelled abroad.

In the absence of a wide surveillance study in Ireland we can't assume that travel hasn't contributed.

faceman

theological wrote: »

In the UK the ONS coronavirus study shows that there is a higher rate of infection in those who travelled abroad.

In the absence of a wide surveillance study in Ireland we can't assume that travel hasn't contributed.

Less than 1%....

theological

faceman wrote: »

Less than 1%....

If you're referring to the chestnut that has already been refuted. Just because fewer than 1% of cases are directly from travel doesn't mean that it doesn't lead to a larger impact as it leads to community spread.

Data shows that travel has led to more cases of the virus in the community. Data in other places is showing that those who travel are more likely to have caught the virus.

It's almost as if logic doesn't actually matter to you and others arguing for continued travel even during the second wave of the pandemic in Europe.

faceman

theological wrote: »

If you're referring to the chestnut that has already been refuted. Just because fewer than 1% of cases are directly from travel doesn't mean that it doesn't lead to a larger impact as it leads to community spread.

Data shows that travel has led to more cases of the virus in the community. Data in other places is showing that those who travel are more likely to have caught the virus.

It's almost as if logic doesn't actually matter to you and others arguing for continued travel even during the second wave of the pandemic in Europe.

I expected this reply. What it chooses to ignore is that human behaviour and sanitary processes have changed since February and March. Therefore impact from travel now is very different from travel 6 months ago

There are plenty of research articles and journals on the matter, some of which are available on the ECDC and WHO websites. Some of these have been posted in threads in the forum and I’m not reposting them again.

Tenzor07

faceman wrote: »

I expected this reply. What it chooses to ignore is that human behaviour and sanitary processes have changed since February and March. Therefore impact from travel now is very different from travel 6 months ago There are plenty of research articles and journals on the matter, some of which are available on the ECDC and WHO websites. Some of these have been posted in threads in the forum and I’m not reposting them again.

Good point, some people still think that 7 or so months into this crisis that closing the air and sea ports is the answer in stopping a microscopic virus which knows no borders and is already in circulation around the Island's population which will continue to do so for many years to come.

theological

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Good point, some people still think that 7 or so months into this crisis that closing the air and sea ports is the answer in stopping a microscopic virus which knows no borders and is already in circulation around the Island's population which will continue to do so for many years to come.

This isn't guaranteed. There are measures we can take including restricting travel that could have material results.

Taiwan has had 513 cases of coronavirus and 7 deaths in a population of 23 million. This was achieved through mandatory quarantining and a ban on international travel.

The reality is that many lives could be saved by doing the same thing in other places. The desire simply isn't there unfortunately.

Tenzor07

theological wrote: »

This isn't guaranteed. There are measures we can take including restricting travel that could have material results.
Taiwan has had 513 cases of coronavirus and 7 deaths in a population of 23 million. This was achieved through mandatory quarantining and a ban on international travel.
The reality is that many lives could be saved by doing the same thing in other places. The desire simply isn't there unfortunately.

The reality is we're not an East Asian society, we're a small Island on the edge of a union of nations... Cutting off our lines of transport would be worse for the country than the disease.... It's just not feasible now in reality.

theological

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The reality is we're not an East Asian society, we're a small Island on the edge of a union of nations... Cutting off our lines of transport would be worse for the country than the disease.... It's just not feasible now in reality.

Taiwan is also a large island in near proximity to China, Japan and the Philippines. Being close to other places is not an excuse for not taking action in the summer when cases were low.

There were clear things that could have been done to prevent the introduction of the virus in the summer that weren't taken.

Taiwan seems to be doing ok. It doesn't have the looming threat of an economic shutdown unlike the whole of Europe at the moment. All of that was preventable.

I read your post as saying although there were clear and effective measures we could have taken to eradicate the virus and save lives I didn't want to do them. That's nothing to do with culture.

zerosugarbuzz

theological wrote: »

This isn't guaranteed. There are measures we can take including restricting travel that could have material results.

Taiwan has had 513 cases of coronavirus and 7 deaths in a population of 23 million. This was achieved through mandatory quarantining and a ban on international travel.

The reality is that many lives could be saved by doing the same thing in other places. The desire simply isn't there unfortunately.

Maybe their testing isn’t like ours and doesn’t involve drilling down to find the most minuscule amount of Covid that could be dead Covid from someone who was infected many months ago. Every country tests using different criteria so comparisons are fairly pointless.

fly_agaric

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Good point, some people still think that 7 or so months into this crisis that closing the air and sea ports is the answer in stopping a microscopic virus which knows no borders and is already in circulation around the Island's population which will continue to do so for many years to come.

It is in circulation now alright (unlike June/July I think, when afair > 20 % of new Coronavirus cases in Ireland were "travel related" even under the limited HSE definition) so not much we can do about that.

However...some people still mischaracterise more sensible controls on people travelling into Ireland as "closing the air and sea ports".

Some people also think that the govt. "opening up" travel again (e.g. by listening to airline industry and axing the forms and the movement restriction recommendations) is going to raise up the corpse of the dead business model of mass tourism and low cost flights into Ireland.

You'd think they'd have copped to the fact that people will not want to travel in the way that they did while this is going on unless they have a pressing reason to or they are believers in virus conspiracy theories or want their holiday now + don't give a shít.

Unfortunately for Ryanair, there are just not enough such people despite social media's best efforts!:pac:

Feria40

fly_agaric wrote: »

It is in circulation now alright (unlike June/July I think, when afair > 20 % of new Coronavirus cases in Ireland were "travel related" even under the limited HSE definition) so not much we can do about that.

However...some people still mischaracterise more sensible controls on people travelling into Ireland as "closing the air and sea ports".

Some people also think that the govt. "opening up" travel again (e.g. by listening to airline industry and axing the forms and the movement restriction recommendations) is going to raise up the corpse of the dead business model of mass tourism and low cost flights into Ireland.

You'd think they'd have copped to the fact that people will not want to travel in the way that they did while this is going on unless they have a pressing reason to or they are believers in virus conspiracy theories or want their holiday now + don't give a shít.

Unfortunately for Ryanair, there are just not enough such people despite social media's best efforts!:pac:

I would respectfully disagree with you on the latter part or your post. The vast majority of people I speak with are absolutely itching to get away and only the 2 week guideline on movement restriction is putting them off thus far.

I'm sure there are some that perceive travel as high risk for whatever reason and will choose not to travel in the short term. Best of luck to those people and if they are more comfortable staying put then good for them.

As this pandemic drags on (and on) however their opinion on travel/risk may change.

For what it's worth on the recent flights I have been on the majority of people were retirees. People who are technicaly more at risk. Obviously they have no jobs from which to isolate from when they return so have decided to go and enjoy some sun or a city break

mikekerry

Feria40 wrote: »

I would respectfully disagree with you on the latter part or your post. The vast majority of people I speak with are absolutely itching to get away and only the 2 week guideline on movement restriction is putting them off thus far.

I'm sure there are some that perceive travel as high risk for whatever reason and will choose not to travel in the short term. Best of luck to those people and if they are more comfortable staying put then good for them.

As this pandemic drags on (and on) however their opinion on travel/risk may change.

For what it's worth on the recent flights I have been on the majority of people were retirees. People who are technicaly more at risk. Obviously they have no jobs from which to isolate from when they return so have decided to go and enjoy some sun or a city break

I think it will just come to the stage where people just want to get on with their lives and take the risks associated albeit while following protocols .
What's life if you are just restricted to a small bubble of contacts and little contact with people for months on end.
Life if for living, not living in fear.

is_that_so

High Court says the travel advice is legal.


https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/1002/1168920-travel/

3xh

is_that_so wrote: »

High Court says the travel advice is legal.


https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/1002/1168920-travel/

Yep. Shame that was the ruling but I think the key message out of this is the ‘advice’ is now officially just that; advice. Win, lose or draw, it’s now been stated, the quarantine/restrict your movements wording is advice.

Many people incorrectly thought the Gardaí could check up on you and fine you etc because whenever NPHET/Government/media spoke about travellers entering Ireland, they referred to the (Legally required) Passenger Locator Form and quarantine in the same breath.

It’ll help give assurance to some citizens on the fence about travelling or not that they’re doing nothing wrong if they do.

faceman

3xh wrote: »

Yep. Shame that was the ruling but I think the key message out of this is the ‘advice’ is now officially just that; advice. Win, lose or draw, it’s now been stated, the quarantine/restrict your movements wording is advice.

Many people incorrectly thought the Gardaí could check up on you and fine you etc because whenever NPHET/Government/media spoke about travellers entering Ireland, they referred to the (Legally required) Passenger Locator Form and quarantine in the same breath.

It’ll help give assurance to some citizens on the fence about travelling or not that they’re doing nothing wrong if they do.

This case is not a win for the government. It further undermines credibility and influence over an already jaded nation.

Anyone up for a trip to Spain?

Atlantic Dawn

faceman wrote: »

This case is not a win for the government. It further undermines credibility and influence over an already jaded nation.

Anyone up for a trip to Spain?

If I could get travel insurance I'd be on my way.

3xh

faceman wrote: »

This case is not a win for the government. It further undermines credibility and influence over an already jaded nation.

Anyone up for a trip to Spain?

I agree totally. I meant win, lose or draw for Ryanair, it doesn’t matter. They rightly proved the point.

Get travelling!

Happydays2020

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If I could get travel insurance I'd be on my way.

Presumably if it is not binding then the travel insurance company cannot withdraw the service.

Happydays2020

Plus the public sector workers should be contacting their union to find out the status of the Directive that issued on the requirement to take leave or unpaid leave for the period of self restriction even if they WFH.

faceman

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If I could get travel insurance I'd be on my way.

EHIC and you’re grand.

theological

3xh wrote: »

Yep. Shame that was the ruling but I think the key message out of this is the ‘advice’ is now officially just that; advice. Win, lose or draw, it’s now been stated, the quarantine/restrict your movements wording is advice.

Many people incorrectly thought the Gardaí could check up on you and fine you etc because whenever NPHET/Government/media spoke about travellers entering Ireland, they referred to the (Legally required) Passenger Locator Form and quarantine in the same breath.

It’ll help give assurance to some citizens on the fence about travelling or not that they’re doing nothing wrong if they do.

The problem all along is that it should have been legally enforced and been legally enforceable. The sacrifice that we gave earlier in the year has been completely wasted in part because there weren't controls on travel.

Now that the high court have ruled this way the Government should legally restrict travel until this is over. Isolation for nationals, and no new arrivals until the virus is out of the country.

I would love for the government in the UK to do the same instead of the silly race to the airport every week. This week it is Poland and Turkey for anyone following.