Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

normanoffside

theological wrote: »

1 person coming back from an infected country that then continues socialising with others and could pass it on. This can then mothball.

You're missing out on a very important point: we are an infected country and we are stopping people travelling to/from much less infected countries.

Jinglejangle69

faceman wrote: »

Simple really. We look at evidence from other EU countries who have a more thorough contact tracing system process than Ireland. As I said, the stat is less than 2%

And who have the same acceptance of tourists as Ireland and a seamless border?

faceman

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

And who have the same acceptance of tourists as Ireland and a seamless border?

Eh. You do realise most of Europe opened mid June?

Jinglejangle69

faceman wrote: »

Eh. You do realise most of Europe opened mid June?

Oh yeah,

So how is Spain France Germany doing?

theological

normanoffside wrote: »

You're missing out on a very important point: we are an infected country and we are stopping people travelling to/from much less infected countries.

It's a two sided coin. People shouldn't be travelling to other countries if they are leaving a country with a high infection rate. I don't know why it is so difficult to stay where you are for a year. There's plenty of places one can go to in Ireland and the autumn is firmly here. The tourist season is over. An opportunity was wasted in the summer to stop an importation of cases.

3xh

theological wrote: »

The tourist season is over. An opportunity was wasted in the summer to stop an importation of cases.

Now we can see for sure you’re just not getting it.

theological

faceman wrote: »

Simple really. We look at evidence from other EU countries who have a more thorough contact tracing system process than Ireland. As I said, the stat is less than 2%

Except there are documented cases of spread because people came back from travel and the socialised with others and passed the virus on. There's lots of examples of this. I don't know why there's so strong a need to ignore this.

If a tree of infections is caused by one person and then mothballs to 100 through community spread in a month then it still stands that all of this infection would have been prevented if this initial person stayed at home.

3xh wrote: »

Now we can see for sure you’re just not getting it.

Not getting what? The continued selfishness of this argument?

faceman

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Oh yeah,

So how is Spain France Germany doing?

You’re expecting me to say what exactly?

I can give an in-depth answer about Spain if you’d like?

Like I said, travel accounts for less than 2% in each of those countries.

Take you head out of the sand and actually read the data beyond the headlines.

Jinglejangle69

faceman wrote: »

You’re expecting me to say what exactly?

I can give an in-depth answer about Spain if you’d like?

Like I said, travel accounts for less than 2% in each of those countries.

Take you head out of the sand and actually read the data beyond the headlines.

I don't for one minute believe any country in the world can say and be correct where ALL their cases have come from.

It's impossible.

2% is a stab in the dark.

We have 25% community transmission.

You take your head out of the sand.

theological

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I don't for one minute believe any country in the world can say and be correct where ALL their cases have come from.

It's impossible.

2% is a stab in the dark.

We have 25% community transmission.

You take your head out of the sand.

And all 25% ultimately comes from an importation of cases through travel.

faceman

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I don't for one minute believe any country in the world can say and be correct where ALL their cases have come from.

It's impossible.

2% is a stab in the dark.

We have 25% community transmission.

You take your head out of the sand.

Ok cool yeah. I’ll tell WHO and the ECDC to update their articles and journals with your advice :rolleyes:

Tenzor07

theological wrote: »

It's a two sided coin. People shouldn't be travelling to other countries if they are leaving a country with a high infection rate. I don't know why it is so difficult to stay where you are for a year. There's plenty of places one can go to in Ireland and the autumn is firmly here. The tourist season is over. An opportunity was wasted in the summer to stop an importation of cases.

The plenty of people who went on holiday all over Ireland, were also carriers of the Virus, look at the rates of infection all over the country, Donegal a popular domestic holiday destination now on lockdown!
So would you not agree that all travel by plane, boat, car, foot should come to a halt and we should all stay indoors at home?

Tenzor07

theological wrote: »

Except there are documented cases of spread because people came back from travel and the socialised with others and passed the virus on. There's lots of examples of this. I don't know why there's so strong a need to ignore this.
If a tree of infections is caused by one person and then mothballs to 100 through community spread in a month then it still stands that all of this infection would have been prevented if this initial person stayed at home.
Not getting what? The continued selfishness of this argument?

I hope you practice what you preach on here?
If you're from Dublin I hope you've not left the county?
Maybe you're shielding since March?
Minimal contacts, groceries delivered to your door which you then sanitized before opening?, your medicines delivered too,
if you work then everything done online? If you're a pensioner that you don't have to go to the post office to collect?
That your contacts are limited to a close social bubble and any visitors to your door are all masked and 2m distant.
If you go for a walk it's close to home and you come across no others?
If you need haircuts that you do it yourself with razor?
Petol for your car using self service pump only and no contact with shop workers.


If your answer to any of the above is no then you, you sir are a host of the virus and can spread it to others so stay home and have the most minimal of contacts with the outside world!

theological

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The plenty of people who went on holiday all over Ireland, were also carriers of the Virus, look at the rates of infection all over the country, Donegal a popular domestic holiday destination now on lockdown!
So would you not agree that all travel by plane, boat, car, foot should come to a halt and we should all stay indoors at home?

Internally it is easier to control the virus because we have the data. Contact tracing is also easier. People obviously shouldn't be travelling from areas with extra restrictions anyway but principally controlling the virus within national borders should be possible. This task is made more difficult when people introduce more of the virus from abroad while this effort is ongoing.

On my personal circumstances I live in outer London and have been following the guidance. I've not travelled outside the UK since last year.

saabsaab

Allowing unnecessary foreign travel is like trying to empty the bath with the bath taps still running.

Tenzor07

theological wrote: »

Internally it is easier to control the virus because we have the data. Contact tracing is also easier. People obviously shouldn't be travelling from areas with extra restrictions anyway but principally controlling the virus within national borders should be possible. This task is made more difficult when people introduce more of the virus from abroad while this effort is ongoing. On my personal circumstances I live in outer London and have been following the guidance. I've not travelled outside the UK since last year.

Can't control a Virus with border closures unless hermetically sealed and you know that anyway.

Anyhoo, we've had this debate many many times and it just goes around in circles. You've been sat at home, I've travelled all over Europe, or at least a good part of it, and that's where we both stand on the issue.

Tenzor07

saabsaab wrote: »

Allowing unnecessary foreign travel is like trying to empty the bath with the bath taps still running.

Stopping travel now is like putting the toothpaste back into the tube

The Dam broke in China, no one stopped it and now we're all swimming in it, so let's learn to Swim strongly against it and not let our heads be submerged in it, until there's a safe and effective vaccine/cure.

saabsaab

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Stopping travel now is like putting the toothpaste back into the tube

The Dam broke in China, no one stopped it and now we're all swimming in it, so let's learn to Swim strongly against it and not let our heads be submerged in it, until there's a safe and effective vaccine/cure.

Lets stay put as far as possible until there is a vaccine. Can't be too far off now. Waiting will save lives. If there isn't a vaccine say by March next then open things up as we will have to live with it or die as the case may be.

Tenzor07

saabsaab wrote: »

Lets stay put as far as possible until there is a vaccine. Can't be too far off now. Waiting will save lives. If there isn't a vaccine say by March next then open things up as we will have to live with it or die as the case may be.

Wish I could agree with you, so much talk about vaccines but we don't know when the best ones will be available...

For now travel and interactions with others can be done with masks, extra hygiene and social distance measures.... if a vaccine is the final part of that picture and it makes people feel safe then let's hope the travel and tourism sectors can open up again fully..

saabsaab

Now is not the time to open up, best to wait it won't be forever. It shouldn't be that long.

Tenzor07

saabsaab wrote: »

Now is not the time to open up, best to wait it won't be forever. It shouldn't be that long.

2.3% traced to travel my friend: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/5a3f4-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-saturday-3-october/

theological

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Can't control a Virus with border closures unless hermetically sealed and you know that anyway.

Anyhoo, we've had this debate many many times and it just goes around in circles. You've been sat at home, I've travelled all over Europe, or at least a good part of it, and that's where we both stand on the issue.

Yes but the debate can be summed up as follows. Those making rational points on the basis of precedence and data and those arguing for the head in the sand approach so that they can continue justifying travelling abroad.

johnire

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/faqs.html

Copied directly from the CDC website dated September 14th......

Travel increases your chance of getting and spreading COVID-19.

3xh

johnire wrote: »

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/faqs.html

Copied directly from the CDC website dated September 14th......

Travel increases your chance of getting and spreading COVID-19.

Clearly selective evidence.

Here’s our official statistics from gov.ie
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/5a3f4-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-saturday-3-october/

Travel is 2.3% of our cases. And has been consistently so.

You’re still ignoring the fact it’s patently safer for a Covid negative person from West Dublin to spend a week in Germany or Finland than Blanchardstown shopping centre and the local schools.

It’s masks, hand gel, social distancing, sterilised cleaning of aircraft and airport terminal touch pints and a Covid test upon arrival if travelling there.

I suspect I still won’t have convinced you.

Tenzor07

3xh wrote: »

I suspect I still won’t have convinced you.

And you won't either, some just sit online all day and Google stuff about travel being unsafe when it's not..and they've hardly left their places of residence in 7 months!
You're as likely to pick up an infection on the 46A as you are on a flight to anywhere in the EU...

johnire

Yes but that’s 2.3% of a tiny amount of people travelling. I think the point that’s trying to be made is that if travel was at normal rates then that figure and the subsequent number of infections would be quite large.

3xh wrote: »

Clearly selective evidence.

Here’s our official statistics from gov.ie
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/5a3f4-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-saturday-3-october/

Travel is 2.3% of our cases. And has been consistently so.

You’re still ignoring the fact it’s patently safer for a Covid negative person from West Dublin to spend a week in Germany or Finland than Blanchardstown shopping centre and the local schools.

It’s masks, hand gel, social distancing, sterilised cleaning of aircraft and airport terminal touch pints and a Covid test upon arrival if travelling there.

I suspect I still won’t have convinced you.

johnire

That’s not fair to say...... this is the CDC that’s saying this -a highly respected organisation. It’s in black and white-

Travel increases your chance of getting and spreading COVID-19. Staying home is the best way to protect yourself and others from COVID-19.

quote="3xh;114813568"]Clearly selective evidence.

Here’s our official statistics from gov.ie
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/5a3f4-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-saturday-3-october/

Travel is 2.3% of our cases. And has been consistently so.

You’re still ignoring the fact it’s patently safer for a Covid negative person from West Dublin to spend a week in Germany or Finland than Blanchardstown shopping centre and the local schools.

It’s masks, hand gel, social distancing, sterilised cleaning of aircraft and airport terminal touch pints and a Covid test upon arrival if travelling there.

I suspect I still won’t have convinced you.[/quote]

3xh

johnire wrote: »

Yes but that’s 2.3% of a tiny amount of people travelling. I think the point that’s trying to be made is that if travel was at normal rates then that figure and the subsequent number of infections would be quite large.

Ok, so let’s for a moment stop all holiday air travel, etc. What’s the travel transmission % now? You don’t know. How many of the Covid cases comes in from essential service travel like hauliers etc. Or other workers needing to travel abroad and back. It’s one of those catch-all claims, ‘Close the Borders’

The majority of air freight in and out of Ireland takes place on normal passenger aircraft. Not dedicated cargo aircraft.

Will you stop with this fallacy that banning John and Mary from heading to wherever it is they’re going is going to stop transmissions worthy enough of banning flights that also import/export food, goods, medicine.

I have to wonder, if NPHET never recommenced the quarantine, or the passenger locator form, or advised the government to spend loads on media shaming stories about travel or if NPHET said ‘in our view international travel is fine, there’s no reason to see any negatives to it,’ would you still be going on the way you are?

I doubt it.

Listening to your arguments, imo, you’re just parroting without thinking of the effects and logistical nightmare your border shutdown would bring.

saabsaab

Going to be irrelevant soon as the continuing rise in cases here will lead to lockdowns before christmas and nobody except a few die hards will want us to travel to their countries anyway,

3xh

saabsaab wrote: »

Going to be irrelevant soon as the continuing rise in cases here will lead to lockdowns before christmas and nobody except a few die hards will want us to travel to their countries anyway,

Then if that’s the case, that’s the case. But even red country citizens are allowed travel into Green and Amber countries under the new plan. And the guards won’t be able to stop people travelling to the airport either. They couldn’t do that even in April and May.

For the whole summer it’s been this blinkered droning about ‘close the borders’ without actually getting how stupid that is. And it’s largely because of the lazy media taking the easy way out with supportive click bait articles instead of explaining how it can’t happen.