Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Happydays2020

theological wrote: »

The fact that people are still arguing against travel restrictions despite the evidence is incredible. Particularly when the country is being effectively locked down again in part because new cases were imported from travel from abroad.

Where is the evidence?

gozunda

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Where is the evidence?

Heres three different studies which trace COVID-19 spread to international flights

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/studies-trace-covid-19-spread-international-flights

And no I'm not going to engage in an argument of semantics.

If we had shut down flights from Northern Europe/ Italy early on in the pandemic - we clearly wouldn't have imported all the initial cases from Italy and elsewhere. That and / or making sure those who were then repatriated were properly quarantined.

I remember early on in the discussion a small subset screaming that you "cant stop flights." I think that it's quite clear oh yes we can and / or at least put proper protocols in place to stop eejits jetting off and back again and continuing to increase our already rising infection rates.

saabsaab

'I remember early on in the discussion a small subset screaming that you "cant stop flights." I think that it's quite clear oh yes we can and / or at least put proper protocols in place to stop eejits jetting off and back again and continuing to increase our already rising infection rates'


True, shocking how little has been learned by some.

Happydays2020

gozunda wrote: »

Heres three different studies which trace COVID-19 spread to international flights

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/studies-trace-covid-19-spread-international-flights

And no I'm not going to engage in an argument of semantics.

If we had shut down flights from Northern Europe/ Italy early on in the pandemic - we clearly wouldn't have imported all the initial cases from Italy and elsewhere. That and / or making sure those who were then repatriated were properly quarantined.

I remember early on in the discussion a small subset screaming that you "cant stop flights." I think that it's quite clear oh yes we can and / or at least put proper protocols in place to stop eejits jetting off and back again and continuing to increase our already rising infection rates.

That is not evidence and does not reflect the new reality of masks and enhanced cleaning on aircraft not to mention lower risks travelling to and from airports and at the airport.

Separately, the virus was well implanted in Ireland in February. Unrestricted travel under old conditions will have led to higher numbers but it was here already.

gozunda

Happydays2020 wrote: »

That is not evidence and does not reflect the new reality of masks and enhanced cleaning on aircraft not to mention lower risks travelling to and from airports and at the airport.

Separately, the virus was well implanted in Ireland in February. Unrestricted travel under old conditions will have led to higher numbers but it was here already.

Scientific studies based on real live infections from international flights are not evidence!
Away and take a hike with that crap. The above link shows higher infection rates in Bussiness class (which has greater seating distances) and despite themal screening and self reporting etc at airports. Masks / face coverings only offer so much protection in any crowded environment - with the study showing that "Sitting near the ill passenger was strongly tied to increased infection risk." That remains.

The authors noted that thermal temperature screening and self-reporting of symptoms at the airport did not stop the infected person from boarding. As is clear from this investigation, long flights can lead to ideal conditions for "superspreader" events, they added.

"Well implanted in Ireland in February"?????? Not to sure if you're now simply having a laugh or just making it up.

Saturday, February 29th.
First case diagnosed in Ireland. A teenager had become ill after returning from Italy and was placed in isolation in a Dublin hospital.

March 2nd
The second case of the coronavirus in the Republic was confirmed on Tuesday evening after a woman who had recently travelled from Italy tested positive.

March 4th
it was confirmed that a family of four in Co Clare had tested positive for the virus after returning from a skiing holiday in northern Italy.

Tenzor07

gozunda wrote: »

Saturday, February 29th.
First case diagnosed in Ireland. A teenager had become ill after returning from Italy and was placed in isolation in a Dublin hospital.
March 2nd
The second case of the coronavirus in the Republic was confirmed on Tuesday evening after a woman who had recently travelled from Italy tested positive.
March 4th
it was confirmed that a family of four in Co Clare had tested positive for the virus after returning from a skiing holiday in northern Italy.

Totally agree that the time to suspend flights was early March for about 4 weeks, which would have allowed the Government to set up a Covid testing facility at the airports and install temperature cameras at passport control..

....fast forward 7 months and still no testing or temperature checks... and still some calling for closing the airports..... none of which makes sense, or is supported by evidence that the very few who have traveled are being traced back to any clusters of the virus or super spreader events... :rolleyes:

gozunda

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Totally agree that the time to suspend flights was early March for about 4 weeks, which would have allowed the Government to set up a Covid testing facility at the airports and install temperature cameras at passport control..

....fast forward 7 months and still no testing or temperature checks... and still some calling for closing the airports..... none of which makes sense, or is supported by evidence that the very few who have traveled are being traced back to any clusters of the virus or super spreader events... :rolleyes:

Fast forward 7 months and infection rates are rising again and planes are still arriving.

More than 191,000 people flew into Dublin Airport from Covid hotspots during a four-week period, according to figures given by Transport Minister Eamon Ryan. The airport saw arrivals from the US, Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal between September 7 and October 4, as Covid-19 infections in these countries continued to rise.

Our first diagnosed clusters came from Northern Europe. And despite knowing better - we still have some eejits thinking they can go off on their holliers willy nilly come back and do the same all over again.

No need to completely shut down airports if the self same eejits had some cop on

:rolleyes:

faceman

Per Stephen Donnelly today citing hse figures up to date as of 14th October; travel now accounts for less than 1% of cases

normanoffside

I think we can all agree that we should just simply have a testing facility in the airport and/or require all travellers to bring a negative test a few days before travelling.

The latter would cost the government nothing and most travellers would be willing to do it at their own expense

theological

faceman wrote: »

Per Stephen Donnelly today citing hse figures up to date as of 14th October; travel now accounts for less than 1% of cases

And we've explored the reason why this is a misnomer several times on this thread so far. The figure doesn't account for onward spread from those people.

Rates of travel are obviously going to drop in autumn but it should have been restricted before the summer. It is too late now.

normanoffside wrote: »

I think we can all agree that we should just simply have a testing facility in the airport and/or require all travellers to bring a negative test a few days before travelling.

The latter would cost the government nothing and most travellers would be willing to do it at their own expense

It still requires isolation. Test on arrival can produce false negatives because early on in the incubation period you can test out as negative.

Quarantine for a few days is still required.

MOH

Tenzor07 wrote: »

.... none of which makes sense, or is supported by evidence that the very few who have traveled are being traced back to any clusters of the virus or super spreader events... :rolleyes:

faceman wrote: »

Per Stephen Donnelly today citing hse figures up to date as of 14th October; travel now accounts for less than 1% of cases

A bit more than 1% actually.
Then again, hardly anything accounts for more than 1% of clusters, since they're making zero effort to trace where clusters are coming from. e.g. Pubs account for less than 0.5% of clusters.

From the most recently published weekly report, 70% of accidents occur at home. 80% of clusters in the previous week magically occurred at home.

They government have been disingenuously claiming for months that they don't have to do anything about travel because there have been hardly any clusters linked to same. But that's only because they haven't bothered their arses looking. Yet they're willing to destroy the pubs which are only responsible for one fifth as many clusters, citing "best international evidence" but then choose to totally ignore that when it comes to travel.

Tenzor07

gozunda wrote: »

Fast forward 7 months and infection rates are rising again and planes are still arriving.
Our first diagnosed clusters came from Northern Europe. And despite knowing better - we still have some eejits thinking they can go off on their holliers willy nilly come back and do the same all over again.
No need to completely shut down airports if the self same eejits had some cop on
:rolleyes:

Yes, because of Government mismanagement of the Airports, so if you're looking for someone to get angry with then contact your local T.D.

Airports are empty, flights aren't even half full, there's no tourists.

gozunda

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yes, because of Government mismanagement of the Airports, so if you're looking for someone to get angry with then contact your local T.D.

Airports are empty, flights aren't even half full, there's no tourists.

Personal responsibility has a big part to play in this pandemic. And where we have eejits who don’t think they can be carriers - then thats a big problem.

As for "empty airports" - as detailed- "More than 191,000 people flew into Dublin Airport from Covid hotspots during a four-week period"

Even discounting other tourists - our own flying 'tourists' seem to be certainly doing enough to make at least a sizeable proportion of that for sure

faceman

theological wrote: »

And we've explored the reason why this is a misnomer several times on this thread so far. The figure doesn't account for onward spread from those people.

Rates of travel are obviously going to drop in autumn but it should have been restricted before the summer. It is too late now.



It still requires isolation. Test on arrival can produce false negatives because early on in the incubation period you can test out as negative.

Quarantine for a few days is still required.

Yes we’ve explored it. And you keep arguing against the research and guidance presented by WHO and ECDC and other research institute.

But you’re focusing your energy on a less than 1% statistic rather than the 51% statistic on spread. How’s that going for you?

ginoginelli

Such a squandered opportunity that we didn't control travel in the summer. We were down to 6 cases a day at one stage before the virus started circulating again. I suspect travel played a much bigger part in the rise in numbers than we are being led to believe, but of course we will never know due to our not fit for purpose 48 hour max contact tracing system.

Jinglejangle69

faceman wrote: »

Per Stephen Donnelly today citing hse figures up to date as of 14th October; travel now accounts for less than 1% of cases

Biggest nonsense.

20% of infections are community transmission.

Which means they have no idea where they came from.

So 20% could be travel related.

faceman

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Biggest nonsense.

20% of infections are community transmission.

Which means they have no idea where they came from.

So 20% could be travel related.

Hahahahaha. Let us know how you get on telling the HSE and NPHET that

Tenzor07

gozunda wrote: »

Personal responsibility has a big part to play in this pandemic. And where we have eejits who don’t think they can be carriers - then thats a big problem.
As for "empty airports" - as detailed- "More than 191,000 people flew into Dublin Airport from Covid hotspots during a four-week period"
Even discounting other tourists - our own flying 'tourists' seem to be certainly doing enough to make at least a sizeable proportion of that for sure

Everyone is a potential carrier, all transport needs to be treated the same.You keep referring to "eejits" seems quite childish to describe people? Whoever they are?

Ireland is a Covid hotspot now. There's hardly any country in Europe with a higher rate of cases than Ireland..

The numbers coming into Ireland are 5 to 10% of normal, not significant at all. Outbreaks of the virus are not occurring due to travel abroad.

Tenzor07

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Biggest nonsense.
20% of infections are community transmission.
Which means they have no idea where they came from.

So 20% could be travel related.

this is what happens when people make stuff up themselves and cause panic, not following the science is where all sane measures to safely keep the country operating fall down..

Valhallapt

At the very beginning of the epidemic it made sense to close the airports. But things have moved on, having Shannon and cork airports close will do far more damage than good, long term viability of those airports are now in question. It’s soon start looking like 1980s in the west of Ireland, an economic waste land.

It’s not an idle threat by Ryanair, they are actively moving the planes to Italy where airports are somewhat normal, those planes may never come back.

gozunda

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Everyone is a potential carrier, all transport needs to be treated the same.You keep referring to "eejits" seems quite childish to describe people? Whoever they are?

Ireland is a Covid hotspot now. There's hardly any country in Europe with a higher rate of cases than Ireland..

The numbers coming into Ireland are 5 to 10% of normal, not significant at all. Outbreaks of the virus are not occurring due to travel abroad.

Nope. Incorrect Not all transport has global links. Nor does all travel involve long stay contact with other individuals. Every person travelling and vacationing to or from a high risk areas outside their own households is potentially significant. And yes those denying reality are little more than right eejits imho. Sorry to call that out. And no need to take any of that personally btw.

Tenzor07

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. Incorrect Not all transport has global links. Nor does all travel involve long stay contact with other individuals. Every person travelling and vacationing to or from a high risk areas outside their own households is potentially significant. And yes those denying reality are little more than right eejits imho. Sorry to call that out. And no need to take any of that personally btw.

That's ok, I viewed your post as a rant anyways when you started blaming "eejits".

gozunda

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That's ok, I viewed your post as a rant anyways when you started blaming "eejits".

Nope. Not a 'rant' anymore than your own comments. And its not a blame game btw. That doesn't mean they're won't always be those few with their heads in the sand. But I think you know this already.

saabsaab

If through a severe lockdown and curfews we brought th evirus down to almost nil and we still allowed non essential travel into the country we would be back to square one in a few months. Probably what happened already this summer and we all know it.

ShineOn7

And the clown show continues



https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1317750590156525568?s=20

lawred2

saabsaab wrote: »

If through a severe lockdown and curfews we brought th evirus down to almost nil and we still allowed non essential travel into the country we would be back to square one in a few months. Probably what happened already this summer and we all know it.

Absolutely pointless talk when we share an open border with the UK on this island.

You going to close that too?

Happydays2020

gozunda wrote: »

Scientific studies based on real live infections from international flights are not evidence!
Away and take a hike with that crap. The above link shows higher infection rates in Bussiness class (which has greater seating distances) and despite themal screening and self reporting etc at airports. Masks / face coverings only offer so much protection in any crowded environment - with the study showing that "Sitting near the ill passenger was strongly tied to increased infection risk." That remains.



"Well implanted in Ireland in February"?????? Not to sure if you're now simply having a laugh or just making it up.

Saturday, February 29th.
First case diagnosed in Ireland. A teenager had become ill after returning from Italy and was placed in isolation in a Dublin hospital.

March 2nd
The second case of the coronavirus in the Republic was confirmed on Tuesday evening after a woman who had recently travelled from Italy tested positive.

March 4th
it was confirmed that a family of four in Co Clare had tested positive for the virus after returning from a skiing holiday in northern Italy.

I am not making this up.

http://www.thejournal.ie/leaders-questions-58-5093409-May2020/%3famp=1

lawrencesummers

So travel isn’t a problem?


Travel clearly is a problem, but this piece would have you believe the “index case” is the problem with their behaviour when restrictions should have applied, testing should have been in place and follow up to check compliance happening.

Man who failed to restrict movements after trip abroad led to 56 Covid-19 infections

https://www.thejournal.ie/man-failed-restrict-movements-56-cases-5237110-Oct2020/

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So travel isn’t a problem?


Travel clearly is a problem, but this piece would have you believe the “index case” is the problem with their behaviour when restrictions should have applied, testing should have been in place and follow up to check compliance happening.

Man who failed to restrict movements after trip abroad led to 56 Covid-19 infections

https://www.thejournal.ie/man-failed-restrict-movements-56-cases-5237110-Oct2020/

No, its not. Its the behaviour of an individual who went out and socialised when he had COVID symptoms that is the problem

3xh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, its not. Its the behaviour of an individual who went out and socialised when he had COVID symptoms that is the problem

And then a female, known to the man, who also felt unwell, got tested but continued on her merry way, infecting others until she was notified of her result.

Those other cases (which make up the 56 in this attention seeking headline) are actually close contact cases. Not travel related. Tut tut, Independent. Your level of high school journalism and woeful editorial control knows no bounds.