Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

faceman

ShineOn7 wrote: »

"shure it'll be grand"



https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1320322981084745728


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/transmission-of-covid-19-on-flight-into-ireland-linked-to-59-infections-1.4390728

I strongly recommend reading the actual report

Using strictly-controlled flights to Hong Kong where everyone has tested negative within 72 hours of boarding doesn't really give a good representation of the danger on flights that don't require testing to get on them.. You can test positive days before symptoms start and you really start spreading it, which means the majority passengers who had it wouldn't have been spreading it a lot.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If I fly from Vietnam to Dublin, I would spend all that time in-flight around people, and I'd pass through Bangkok and Heathrow say. Plus all the public transport. Security checks. Passport checks. Etc. Vietnam has no Cvoid-19 right now but I definitely reckon my chances of picking it up between here and Monaghan are higher than if I were in lockdown in Monaghan.

I should be put in a two-week quarantine so that I don't go risking my mother's health. It's ridiculous to me that I can just waltz into a 70-year-old's home and self-isolate there after flying from the other side of the world.

Thered be many who’d agree with tighter controls on that kind of long haul travel. But most people here are talking about point to point European travel. For which quarantine would be a joke unless carried out at the point of entry into Europe.

mandrake04

Deleted User wrote: »

Thered be many who’d agree with tighter controls on that kind of long haul travel. But most people here are talking about point to point European travel. For which quarantine would be a joke unless carried out at the point of entry into Europe.

Europe is probably the current epicentre of pandemic, what’s happening in Europe at the moment is probably as good as it’s going to get until mid next year so there no point in quarantining as all countries are more or less in the same shit or will be.

saabsaab

mandrake04 wrote: »

Europe is probably the current epicentre of pandemic, what’s happening in Europe at the moment is probably as good as it’s going to get until mid next year so there no point in quarantining as all countries are more or less in the same shit or will be.

Basically the more we move around and mix the greater the spread within and between countries. There is every point in not traveling and stopping the spread as shown by the current 5Km limit.

mandrake04

saabsaab wrote: »

Basically the more we move around and mix the greater the spread within and between countries. There is every point in not traveling and stopping the spread as shown by the current 5Km limit.

I agree, travel is the virus friend and I have being saying this from the start. But when you have a society that is more interested in closing schools at the expense of their kids education and closing businesses to destroy jobs while facilitating people swaning off on holidays to spend their €€ in another virus laden shithole while keeping the whole population limited to 5km.

I know it doesn't make any sense but when you think of it that's the reality.

440Hertz

Why can't we just implement testing pre-departure and on arrival tests at the airports, in the same way as Germany and several other countries have.

There's no reason to shut down travel, but if you look at this in terms of:

[Cost of Lockdown & economic damage]/[Value of inbound travel] .. I suspect you will find we're making a huge loss per passenger arrival.

If we want to have a safely operating travel industry, it's going to need investment testing infrastructure, and the costs can also be borne by passengers, not the state.

It's ludicrous we haven't done something to progress this. It's also damaging our tourism products and ability to travel, not protecting it.

zerosugarbuzz

saabsaab wrote: »

Basically the more we move around and mix the greater the spread within and between countries. There is every point in not traveling and stopping the spread as shown by the current 5Km limit.

If you download Flightradar24 you will see there is a hell of a lot of flying going on although we are led to believe there is very little.

theological

The Financial Times this morning published that the strain of coronavirus spreading around Europe is a strain that started in a Spanish farm in the summer. It's suspected that 80% of current coronavirus cases in the UK are descended from this strain.

I guess people will repeat the 1% claim and tell me that travel makes no difference whatsoever again? Travel bans definitely need to be a part of the mix going forward. It's just that nobody seems to have the courage to do what is in the norm in Asia or even in Australia at the moment.

Edit:
Apparently it is also the origin of 60% of current infections in Ireland.

faceman

theological wrote: »

The Financial Times this morning published that the strain of coronavirus spreading around Europe is a strain that started in a Spanish farm in the summer. It's suspected that 80% of current coronavirus cases in the UK are descended from this strain.

I guess people will repeat the 1% claim and tell me that travel makes no difference whatsoever again? Travel bans definitely need to be a part of the mix going forward. It's just a she that nobody seems to have the courage to do what is in the norm on Asia or even in Australia at the moment.

lol

Wallander

theological wrote: »

The Financial Times this morning published that the strain of coronavirus spreading around Europe is a strain that started in a Spanish farm in the summer. It's suspected that 80% of current coronavirus cases in the UK are descended from this strain.

I guess people will repeat the 1% claim and tell me that travel makes no difference whatsoever again? Travel bans definitely need to be a part of the mix going forward. It's just that nobody seems to have the courage to do what is in the norm in Asia or even in Australia at the moment.

Edit:
Apparently it is also the origin of 60% of current infections in Ireland.

Well seeing anyone arriving from Spain to Ireland this summer was restricting movements, this strain obviously arrived across the open border with Northern Ireland, as the Northern Irish could arrive quarantine-free from Spain for a while. Unless it went to the UK first, and was then taken from the UK to the Northern Ireland and then across to the Republic. Or an Irish politician picked it up in Brussels and brought it back without needing to quarantine. Or it came from produce in a Spanish farm that supplies our supermarkets.



So all that needs to be done to avoid a repeat of this is impose Irish policy on Northern Ireland, withdraw from the EU and eat local produce only.

theological

Wallander wrote: »

Well seeing anyone arriving from Spain to Ireland this summer was restricting movements, this strain obviously arrived across the open border with Northern Ireland, as the Northern Irish could arrive quarantine-free from Spain for a while. Unless it went to the UK first, and was then taken from the UK to the Northern Ireland and then across to the Republic. Or an Irish politician picked it up in Brussels and brought it back without needing to quarantine. Or it came from produce in a Spanish farm that supplies our supermarkets.



So all that needs to be done to avoid a repeat of this is impose Irish policy on Northern Ireland, withdraw from the EU and eat local produce only.

With an optional (non-legally enforced) quarantine? Why are you sure of that?

Wallander

theological wrote: »

With an optional (non-legally enforced) quarantine? Why are you sure of that?

I was joking, but even if you had mandatory isolation for anyone flying into the Republic, you'd still have all these other routes the strain would inevitably reach the country through.

mandrake04

Wallander wrote: »

I was joking, but even if you had mandatory isolation for anyone flying into the Republic, you'd still have all these other routes the strain would inevitably reach the country through.

Maybe so but reducing the battlefronts makes it much more manageable, doesn't have to be absolutely perfect just manageable.

Its a concept that you have to learn, and learn you will.

fly_agaric

Some quotes that cover current policy on intl. travel and Coronavirus.

"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it!"

Best thing (maybe the only thing) to do now is just laugh in the face of the complete absurdity of it all.

caveat emptor

Wallander wrote: »

Well seeing anyone arriving from Spain to Ireland this summer was restricting movements, this strain obviously arrived across the open border with Northern Ireland, as the Northern Irish could arrive quarantine-free from Spain for a while. Unless it went to the UK first, and was then taken from the UK to the Northern Ireland and then across to the Republic. Or an Irish politician picked it up in Brussels and brought it back without needing to quarantine. Or it came from produce in a Spanish farm that supplies our supermarkets.



So all that needs to be done to avoid a repeat of this is impose Irish policy on Northern Ireland, withdraw from the EU and eat local produce only.

Wow, bravo for the cognitive dissonance. Any proof that 100% of our fellow citizens quarantined?

Suppose it's a coincidence that

the strain arrived mainly on the plane from Spain.


lol indeed faceman.





Didn't think so.

Tenzor07

theological wrote: »

The Financial Times this morning published that the strain of coronavirus spreading around Europe is a strain that started in a Spanish farm in the summer. It's suspected that 80% of current coronavirus cases in the UK are descended from this strain.
I guess people will repeat the 1% claim and tell me that travel makes no difference whatsoever again? Travel bans definitely need to be a part of the mix going forward. It's just that nobody seems to have the courage to do what is in the norm in Asia or even in Australia at the moment.
Edit:Apparently it is also the origin of 60% of current infections in Ireland.

I bet this article is a wet dream to you and others who want all movement across the EU suspended indefinitely...

It's an article posted on a so-called preprint server and is yet to be peer reviewed for publication in a scientific journal, but who cares, stop travel right?
Viruses change,spread and don't recognise borders who'd of thought eh?

So demanding an end to travel at this stage 8 or so months after the virus arrived and began to spread in Europe and globally is a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted..

theological

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I bet this article is a wet dream to you and others who want all movement across the EU suspended indefinitely...

It's an article posted on a so-called preprint server and is yet to be peer reviewed for publication in a scientific journal, but who cares, stop travel right?
Viruses change,spread and don't recognise borders who'd of thought eh?

So demanding an end to travel at this stage 8 or so months after the virus arrived and began to spread in Europe and globally is a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted..

The point is no longer about 8 months ago.

It is about the summer. The virus was largely under control, and then through travel we've re-introduced it right across Europe.

So - you've got new importations of the virus that we largely had under control in combination with a relaxation with restrictions which allowed the importations to spread further into society.

The reality is that this could have been avoided through a ban on travel in the summer.

You are now arguing against the reality.

Tenzor07

theological wrote: »

The point is no longer about 8 months ago.
It is about the summer. The virus was largely under control, and then through travel we've re-introduced it right across Europe.
So - you've got new importations of the virus that we largely had under control in combination with a relaxation with restrictions which allowed the importations to spread further into society.
The reality is that this could have been avoided through a ban on travel in the summer.You are now arguing against the reality.

The reality is that the virus spreads and mutates into different strains as Viruses have done since the beginning of time...
...So the spread cannot be avoided only slowed, so wake up to that reality..

We can't shut down travel across the entire continent, goods and workers have to move across borders otherwise supply lines for everything from the food on your table to the surgical mask on your face doesn't get here magically.
In Ireland we saw that 100's of fruit pickers came into the country otherwise fields of fruit and veg wouldn't have been picked, same across Europe, so to halt travel would have led to a breakdown of the supply lines and ultimately caused nations to come into conflict about food security and resources.

Again, viruses spread and once in a population can only be slowed by harsh lockdowns, in France and Belgium where in France they are seeing 50,000 new cases a day haven't been traced back to the Spanish variant....

theological

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The reality is that the virus spreads and mutates into different strains as Viruses have done since the beginning of time...
...So the spread cannot be avoided only slowed, so wake up to that reality..

We can't shut down travel across the entire continent, goods and workers have to move across borders otherwise supply lines for everything from the food on your table to the surgical mask on your face doesn't get here magically.
In Ireland we saw that 100's of fruit pickers came into the country otherwise fields of fruit and veg wouldn't have been picked, same across Europe, so to halt travel would have led to a breakdown of the supply lines and ultimately caused nations to come into conflict about food security and resources.

Again, viruses spread and once in a population can only be slowed by harsh lockdowns, in France and Belgium where in France they are seeing 50,000 new cases a day haven't been traced back to the Spanish variant....

You keep making arguments that nobody is making. Nobody is suggesting that goods shouldn't enter, and that essential transport shouldn't continue.

What people are suggesting is that there was a whole lot of non-essential travel that has led to significant community spread in Ireland. The facts also agree with that assessment now.

If travel was restricted in the summer, there would have been no need for a lockdown. The spread of COVID in France is likely also from this Spanish strain.

caveat emptor

theological wrote: »

You keep making arguments that nobody is making. Nobody is suggesting that goods shouldn't enter, and that essential transport shouldn't continue.

What people are suggesting is that there was a whole lot of non-essential travel that has led to significant community spread in Ireland. The facts also agree with that assessment now.

That's the typical strawman argument wheeled out when something painfully obvious gets published and points directly at 'unnecessary travel' and or quarantine. Wonder how much cheaper it would be than this current lockdown. I'd bet there would be less job losses for instance.


Question:
"Can we have some enforcement with regards quarantine testing at airport.?"

Answer:
"No! Do you want to starve to death?"

The thread title is about control, not shutting off the country. People are indeed going to extremes to defend their opinions on this.

is_that_so

Possible testing at Dublin & Cork airports coming soon.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/travel-restrictions-eased-following-changes-to-covid-19-testing-rules-1.4405833

normanoffside

is_that_so wrote: »

Possible testing at Dublin & Cork airports coming soon.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/travel-restrictions-eased-following-changes-to-covid-19-testing-rules-1.4405833

So according to that article; from 29th November, NON EU countries will be treated the same as 'Red' EU countries in that they need to restrict Movements for 5 days and get a negative PCR test (privately sourced) then move freely.

I agree with that but they really should also require the to bring a negative test before travelling (same as orange countries). By getting the negative test before travelling passengers pose a minimal risk and we all know that they won't necessarily restrict movements on arrival.

agoodpunt

this is ridiculious we are going to be locked down for xmas for sure whats the point of testing after 5 days.
I think many areas outside the EU insist on a test 72 hours before with a cert cost about €180 and some still require qurrantine.

JustAThought

agoodpunt wrote: »

this is ridiculious we are going to be locked down for xmas for sure whats the point of testing after 5 days.
I think many areas outside the EU insist on a test 72 hours before with a cert cost about €180 and some still require qurrantine.

Some are also imposing e120 a day visa extension charges for those who entered their country as tourists visas and now return because of covid. That’ll focus their attention on
what essential travel is quickly enough.

Shambles continues here & language schools touting for host families and people pouring into
the country advertising
themselves as waiting for pps numbers, available for work immediately and looking for quick starts and accommodation. Farsical.

theological

agoodpunt wrote: »

this is ridiculious we are going to be locked down for xmas for sure whats the point of testing after 5 days.
I think many areas outside the EU insist on a test 72 hours before with a cert cost about €180 and some still require qurrantine.

If it were law (rather than advice) that people need to isolate for 5 days that would be better than 14 days if you like.

A full ban on travel until this is under control would be better.

3xh

theological wrote: »

If it were law (rather than advice) that people need to isolate for 5 days that would be better than 14 days if you like.

A full ban on travel until this is under control would be better.

‘Until it’s under control’ Ah yes, that undefinable, immeasurable metric used by zero-Covid fanboys.

You’ll have your eHealth passport soon enough so you can proudly reintegrate into society then, beeping everywhere you go.

theological

3xh wrote: »

‘Until it’s under control’ Ah yes, that undefinable, immeasurable metric used by zero-Covid fanboys.

You’ll have your eHealth passport soon enough so you can proudly reintegrate into society then, beeping everywhere you go.

Why shouldn't we aim for zero COVID?

It's almost like you put your personal freedom to travel as opposed to considering the health and well-being of others during a pandemic.

The fact is travel has reseeded this virus. Aiming to control it domestically while allowing international travel is a fools errand. They learned that in East Asia. Why are we so slow to listen to what works?

Western individualism hasn't really served us that well here. Putting my personal freedom beyond considering what consequence that could have on others is selfish.

is_that_so

theological wrote: »

Why shouldn't we aim for zero COVID?

It's almost like you put your personal freedom to travel as opposed to considering the health and well-being of others during a pandemic.

The fact is travel has reseeded this virus. Aiming to control it domestically while allowing international travel is a fools errand. They learned that in East Asia. Why are we so slow to listen to what works?

Western individualism hasn't really served us that well here. Putting my personal freedom beyond considering what consequence that could have on others is selfish.

It's not practical unless you are isolated yet NZ, who have gone for that, are yet again imposing a form of lockdown for just one case. We know COVID keeps coming back and even in China where they can lock people in cases are still emerging. East Asia is really not comparable in terms of culture and as some of their measures would fall foul of GDPR.