Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

um7y1h83ge06nx

People get very emotional regarding borders and it can easily stray into unfair or fair accusations of racism etc. depending on the exact case.

However the movement of people is the way any virus spreads. Given how unprecedented this pandemic is surely Ireland and the EU can get tighter on border control and travel restrictions - both into and outside the EU and travel between EU countries. It's not setting a precedent, just trying to help get us past a pandemic.

Optically it is incredibly galling for people that are being sensible and staying at home as much as possible barring essential shopping etc. to see others come back from foreign sun destinations. It could lead to a lower adherence of restrictions in general i.e. "if those people can go to the sun in Lanzarote for a holiday then I can travel outside my county to see my friend/relative".

Jesus C. You'd think half the country had gone to Lanzarote and that the beaches are jammed with the Irish

Malcomex

What can we realistically do here?

The UK can do SFA in reality as they've got like 70million arrivals a year and we have movement between the 2

saabsaab

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Stay at home FGS unless your travel is absolutely unavoidable.

This virus didn't circumnavigate the world because people stayed at home did it? There is no argument that will convince me otherwise.

Dead right and just basic logic.

gozunda

acequion wrote: »

Look you cannot for one minute compare the self sufficiency levels of Australia and NZ with the EU countries where there is huge intertwining on so many levels. Also, Germany is talking about a ban from countries where the new strains are widespread ie ourselves, also Portugal, not every EU country.

As I said to another poster, I find your stance very extreme and you don't seem to want to look at this from any other angle. That is your entitlement just as it's mine not to want to engage with such an extreme perspective. So let's agree to disagree and leave it there. I won't be replying again.

Yeah as you said all that previously to other posters here. And I'd disagree - trying to reduce the rate of infection in order to be able to reduce internal restrictions is not extreme at all. And yes Germany is considering an almost total flight ban. See headlines linked above for details.

Btw I wouldn't consider either of those countries to be near self sufficient or Germany for that matter. Doesn't mean such restrictions can be applied for a set period of time.

MOH

faceman wrote: »

We're back to where we started primarily because:

* The nation lost its marbles in December and going nuts socially,
* Ireland opened too quickly when cases were still high
* Cases were still high during the last lockdown. No one has scrutinised that, but ultimately its down to a lack of adherence to restrictions by the public.

Citations needed.
For example, cases were primarily high at the end of the last lockdown because level 5 was introduced when there was absolutely no need for it and numbers wee already starting to fall rapidly (evident from a cursory look at the HSE figures) . A more prudent use of restrictions potentially wouldn't have led to lockdown fatigue setting in and the resulting lack of adherence.

You can spin the travel narrative anyway you want, but you cant dispute the
NPHET have never pushed a Zero Covid strategy. People cant pick and choose when to support NPHET when they like.

Nonsense. Of course people can pick and choose when to support NPHET. They're not the pope and far from infallible.
And pointing out that 60% of cases are of a new high contagious variant introduced as a result of zero effective travel restrictions isn't "spinning anything, it's just pointing out basic facts.

And once again with the pointless Australia and New Zealand references. Are either of those countries part of a similar system like the EU that has promoted free movement of labour and people for decades?

The glaringly obvious issue for Ireland that other EU nations dont have to worry about to the same degree is closing the republic's border won't keep the virus out. An all island approach won't keep the virus out. Theres no way the mythical 2 island approach is going to lock both countries in unison with widespread sharing of data. Its not going to happen

So we can have a free for all on travel and we cant lock everything down. So what can we do?

Zero covid is a nonsense notion for Ireland. It's impossible to achieve without either sealing the border with the north, or imposing major restrictions between the north and the rest of the UK. Anyone who thinks either of those is a viable option hasn't been paying much attention at any time over the past 50 years.

But the notion that travel isn't responsible for a significant portion of cases, or that we can't impose any kind of meaningful restrictions, is equally nonsensical. Mandatory quarantines make sense. Forget Australia and NZ. For example, Hungary have had a mandatory quarantine in place since last summer, with regular spot checks and hefty fines for non-compliance. I guess they didn't have the same issues we'd face, given we have a land border and EU membership? :rolleyes:

We were supposed to be putting together plans for inbound Covid testing in October, with a plan ready by November for implementation before Christmas. We eventually did it in January. As a result, we ended up a huge number of cases of highly contagious variant.
And again, testing on arrival is obviously imperfect and won't catch all cases. That doesn't mean there's no point doing it. Same with quarantine - yes, people will arrive over the border. So what? Apparently there's been loads of people evading the existing restrictions - does that mean we should just drop all of those?

Once again, the government failure to implement any kind of sensible policy is turned into an attack on a segment of the general population, to distract people from where the real blame lies.

Focusing on holidays is a hilarious smokescreen. The virus doesn't care why you travelled. If somebody goes on holidays, comes back and strictly quarantines for a week, pays for a private test after 5 days and remains isolated until they get a negative back, how are they more of danger than a couple of thousand people arriving into the country on essential business with no checks whatsoever?

You talk about freedom of movement - I find it very disturbing that people leaving the country can be fined if their journey isn't deemed essential. I've no problem at all with fining people inbound if they don't follow whatever restrictions are in place, but obstacles to outbound travel are very concerning.

acequion

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah as you said all that previously to other posters here. And I'd disagree - trying to reduce the rate of infection in order to be able to reduce internal restrictions is not extreme at all. And yes Germany is considering an almost total flight ban. See headlines linked above for details.

Btw I wouldn't consider either of those countries to be near self sufficient or Germany for that matter. Doesn't mean such restrictions can be applied for a set period of time.

What part of let's agree to disagree do you not understand?? Or do you find it impossible to agree to requests that don't suit you?

Please stop replying to my posts. I don't want to talk to you as it's impossible to debate with you.

gozunda

acequion wrote: »

What part of let's agree to disagree do you not understand?? Or do you find it impossible to agree to requests that don't suit you? Please stop replying to my posts. I don't want to talk to you as it's impossible to debate with you.

Jaysus relax. It's a discussion. I had no idea that your comments were proclamations or something.

And btw - its not a 'debate' and as such there's no need to have to agree or otherwise. If you wish to hold your own 'extreme' pov. That's fine by me but I certainly don't agree that supporting further flight restrictions is in any way an 'extreme stance' at all. But hey there we are.

Danno

acequion wrote: »

Except you have completely forgotten our EU membership

The EU membership is a strawman when you look at this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/25/belgium-eu-travel-advice-protect-covid-gains-cross-border-ban-government-non-essential-infection-europe
If certain member states would like to go further than the commission recommendation then we request from them an explanation...

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-will-eu-countries-close-borders-again/a-56298808
Angela Merkel's chief of staff has said Germany may close its borders if countries fail to control the coronavirus. The warning comes ahead of the EU coronavirus summit that will focus on containing new COVID variants.

Bold naughty Belgium, but brave Germany.

acequion wrote: »

and the facts that thousands in Ireland, both Irish and foreign are not self sufficient within Ireland alone. Or perhaps you haven't forgotten, perhaps you just don't care about those people and don't care about EU membership and all it entails.

Millions in Ireland are not self sufficient owing to recurring level 5 restrictions that are directly attributed to variants brought here by open borders.

acequion wrote: »

Your posts are very extreme in one direction so there really isn't much point in trying to debate with you.

Am I? WOW! You have it there folks - anyone looking for sensible border control in the middle of a virus pandemic is "very extreme"! You're not Ossian Smyth by any chance?

acequion wrote: »

Lastly, I will say that no other EU country is implementing what you suggest. Short term closures as part of wider lockdown restrictions, yes. But if I understand correctly you advocate going much further than that.

See links above, plus there are plenty more examples from Lockdown 1 also.
Have a nice day.

Cosmo Kramer

Danno wrote: »

It all boils down to this:

* Irish people collectively have PROVEN that we can pretty much eradicate this virus. Proof - less than ten cases per day between mid-June and mid-July.

* International travellers have PROVEN that they cannot be trusted to not re-introduce the virus in to our community. Proof - following summer holidays, over 60% of cases were directly linked to Spain; over 60% of cases directly linked to UK variant post Christmas.

Denying that takes some mental gymnastics.

What the virus has certainly achieved is brought the loonies out into the mainstream, posters like Danno have now reached Brexit/Trump levels of xenophobic delusion with some of the nonsense being posted.

Not to mention the fact, which has been repeated time and again and is still ignored, that it is literally impossible to entirely restrict travel into the state in any case. The more restrictions you put on travellers arriving directly into the state, the more it encourages people to just fly into Belfast instead, spin down on the bus and avoid the restrictions altogether.

The virus is here and won't be fully eradicated any time soon. The sooner the country accepts that and returns to focusing on minimising the impact of the virus inside the country through everyday actions like properly worn masks, regular hand washing and limiting journeys as much as possible, instead of clinging to easy scapegoats like essential international travellers, the safer we will all be.

acequion

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

What the virus has certainly achieved is brought the loonies out into the mainstream, posters like Danno have now reached Brexit/Trump levels of xenophobic delusion with some of the nonsense being posted.

Not to mention the fact, which has been repeated time and again and is still ignored, that it is literally impossible to entirely restrict travel into the state in any case. The more restrictions you put on travellers arriving directly into the state, the more it encourages people to just fly into Belfast instead, spin down on the bus and avoid the restrictions altogether.

The virus is here and won't be fully eradicated any time soon. The sooner the country accepts that and returns to focusing on minimising the impact of the virus inside the country through everyday actions like properly worn masks, regular hand washing and limiting journeys as much as possible, instead of clinging to easy scapegoats like essential international travellers, the safer we will all be.

Completely agree. Not only that but there's a constant hectoring and bullying of posters who are trying to debate and present another angle. It's a totalitarian I'm right and screw you, you're wrong attitude. Even asking them to agree to disagree just seems to rile them more.

Life is too depressing at the moment for that nonsense. Cue unfollow thread.:rolleyes:

Danno

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

What the virus has certainly achieved is brought the loonies out into the mainstream, posters like Danno have now reached Brexit/Trump levels of xenophobic delusion with some of the nonsense being posted.

Insult, label and attack, the first sign you've already lost the argument. Are the Australians, New Zealanders, Taiwanese and Vietnamese to name a few under a spell of xenophobic delusion too? Well whatever it is they are under, it is a huge pity the Irish aren't under it too cause those countries are doing mighty fine now.

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Not to mention the fact, which has been repeated time and again and is still ignored, that it is literally impossible to entirely restrict travel into the state in any case. The more restrictions you put on travellers arriving directly into the state, the more it encourages people to just fly into Belfast instead, spin down on the bus and avoid the restrictions altogether.

You'll find that I advocate for the border to be closed if Arlene cannot be bothered to co-operate. She has a choice, seal the island or seal the border. It was sealed for cattle in the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak. This disease is far more devastating.

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

The virus is here and won't be fully eradicated any time soon. The sooner the country accepts that and returns to focusing on minimising the impact of the virus inside the country through everyday actions like properly worn masks, regular hand washing and limiting journeys as much as possible, instead of clinging to easy scapegoats like essential international travellers, the safer we will all be.

Once the longer evenings return and the weather picks up you'll find that the people in this country will less and less accept almost year long restrictions and will circumvent them and who'd blame them - there is a thing as lockdown fatigue you know.

By then, the policies you admire will have successfully imported the south American strain which will be no doubt circulating nicely. Yay!

ShineOn7

On the front page of Reddit Ireland

Did anyone hear on the news at lunchtime? They were interviewing some of the holidayers coming back from Dubai at Dublin Airport.

Boasting about how great the beaches were or how they went over for the McGregor fight. And some sanctimonious fcuker like "oh well we've all to get on with our lives. Can't stay at home forever".

So what happens with this person above when they arrive from the utterly riddled UAE?

Don't they need a negative PCR test on arrival?

I'm asking as I honestly have no clue how much the "government" are implementing the new rules and how much they're still just "planning" them

Malcomex

ShineOn7 wrote: »

On the front page of Reddit Ireland




So what happens with this person above when they arrive from the utterly riddled UAE?

Don't they need a negative PCR test on arrival?

I'm asking as I honestly have no clue how much the "government" are implementing the new rules and how much they're still just "planning" them

As Matt Hancock said , it's the unknown variant he's worried about

I'd say we're in planning to deal with future variants

Need a strategy in place to prevent spread of vaccine beating variants

gozunda

acequion wrote: »

Completely agree. Not only that but there's a constant hectoring and bullying of posters who are trying to debate and present another angle. It's a totalitarian I'm right and screw you, you're wrong attitude. Even asking them to agree to disagree just seems to rile them more.
Life is too depressing at the moment for that nonsense. Cue unfollow thread.:rolleyes:

No I'd disagree with that rather singular take on the discussion. It's a given everyone is free to detail their personal opinion without being labelled. As far as I can see - the only place the above was espoused is in your comment. But no matter

faceman

ShineOn7 wrote: »

On the front page of Reddit Ireland




So what happens with this person above when they arrive from the utterly riddled UAE?

Don't they need a negative PCR test on arrival?

I'm asking as I honestly have no clue how much the "government" are implementing the new rules and how much they're still just "planning" them

My favourite bit of that segment on Newstalk was this exchange between Henry McKean and a french man who arrived from Paris:

Henry thought he was setting the french man up for a roasting.

Henry “Are you familiar with the restrictions in Ireland?”

Frenchman “No”

Henry “So what are you doing today?”

Frenchman “Getting on a flight to Chicago”

LOL

An Ri rua

Danno wrote: »

Insult, label and attack, the first sign you've already lost the argument. Are the Australians, New Zealanders, Taiwanese and Vietnamese to name a few under a spell of xenophobic delusion too? Well whatever it is they are under, it is a huge pity the Irish aren't under it too cause those countries are doing mighty fine now.



You'll find that I advocate for the border to be closed if Arlene cannot be bothered to co-operate. She has a choice, seal the island or seal the border. It was sealed for cattle in the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak. This disease is far more devastating.



Once the longer evenings return and the weather picks up you'll find that the people in this country will less and less accept almost year long restrictions and will circumvent them and who'd blame them - there is a thing as lockdown fatigue you know.

By then, the policies you admire will have successfully imported the south American strain which will be no doubt circulating nicely. Yay!

We don't need to wait for the long evenings though. Many will make exceptions, at a personal and a group level. They've been doing it all along. There's always a valid reason....The proof is in the peak we're facing now and in the many, many crowd gathering breaches since this all began. The latest of which was the large coming together to commemorate the tragic death of the young lad from Ballymun (no interest in exploring that other than to note that Mods don't want the violent incident discussed, which is proper order). Before that, crowds re George in Blanchardstown. Before that, traveller funerals countrywide, all sorts of marches by aggrieved parties and loons(it's all a matter of perspective, I'm a strict vegan and view many of these marchers as navel-gazing sh1tehawks, no matter their selfish 'cause'), massive turnouts for Sinn Féin funeral (up North), Garda funeral (West), drowned family in Donegal. Most tragic, all sad (some excruciatingly so)for those in mourning, no doubt, but completely flying in the face of what law-abiding and decent people have been doing, which is burying their beloved relative in a lonely fashion. But they're the dopes. The ordinary good people of Ireland who tolerate lawmakers and their peers who are law breakers.

The interesting thing to watch is whether the meeja impartially call out rule breaches or let it go because of tragedies, race, ethnicity, their own retirement parties etc etc.

Covid amplifies the sh1te double standards in this country.

Spanish Eyes

There are always those who will not follow guidance or orders. The rest of us are at their mercy and I am sick of them now.

Spanish Eyes

Who would want to go to LanzaGrotty, feck sake we know the type. Plastic Irish pubs and home from home.

4 hours or a little more in a plane for that?

ShineOn7

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Who would want to go to LanzaGrotty, feck sake we know the type. Plastic Irish pubs and home from home.

4 hours or a little more in a plane for that?

Also, as of today, very riddled with Covid after having a long run of low cases

Can't find a web source but a travel agent mentioned it on a radio interview earlier

Spanish Eyes

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Also, as of today, very riddled with Covid after having a long run of low cases

Can't find a web source but a travel agent mentioned it on a radio interview earlier

Not surprised at all. That would probably be the visitors over Christmas.

Thanks.

Atlantic Dawn

This €100 or €500 fine is a waste of time as it will mean different things to different people, if you are on €200k a year and going to visit your pad in Marbella paying €500 is sweet nothing, should be 5% of your annual income/dole.

gozunda

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Also, as of today, very riddled with Covid after having a long run of low cases

Can't find a web source but a travel agent mentioned it on a radio interview earlier

Source:
https://lanzaroteinformation.co.uk/corona-virus-in-lanzarote/

faceman

Irish Examiner looked at a wider spread of data from this week and found just 1/3 of people travelling were holiday makers. This makes more sense given there aren't daily flights to holiday hot spots anymore. Some destinations are one flight a week.

28 people without a test who will be prosecuted.

Paul Reid also "doesn't think too much focus should be on the risk from international travel."

With the meat plant outbreak affected 220 people it would be great to see the mob shift their focus to looking for more regulation and enforcement around workplaces.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/28-people-arrived-at-dublin-airport-this-week-without-negative-covid-test-1072283.html

Malcomex

faceman wrote: »

Irish Examiner looked at a wider spread of data from this week and found just 1/3 of people travelling were holiday makers. This makes more sense given there aren't daily flights to holiday hot spots anymore. Some destinations are one flight a week.

28 people without a test who will be prosecuted.

Paul Reid also "doesn't think too much focus should be on the risk from international travel."

With the meat plant outbreak affected 220 people it would be great to see the mob shift their focus to looking for more regulation and enforcement around workplaces.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/28-people-arrived-at-dublin-airport-this-week-without-negative-covid-test-1072283.html

Other countries Israel ,Germany,and UK etc seem to be highly focused on international travel

faceman

Malcomex wrote: »

Other countries Israel ,Germany,and UK etc seem to be highly focused on international travel

On the contrary most other countries are focussed on the vaccine issue.

Media here in Spain are depicting a very angry sentiment over vaccine failure at Eu level

Very little coverage of it in Ireland by comparison

mandrake04

gozunda wrote: »

Source:
https://lanzaroteinformation.co.uk/corona-virus-in-lanzarote/

Brown for Oh Sh!t!!

Lmkrnr

Gee I miss that a annoying kid banging the back of my seat. The seatbelt sign coming on when im standing n line for the jack's. The flight attendant banging my elbow after I finally dose off. The delays, the cancellations. I take it all back. I miss flying. Can't wait to fly again without been judged.

Cosmo Kramer

acequion wrote: »

Completely agree. Not only that but there's a constant hectoring and bullying of posters who are trying to debate and present another angle. It's a totalitarian I'm right and screw you, you're wrong attitude. Even asking them to agree to disagree just seems to rile them more.

Indeed, and right on cue...

Danno wrote: »

Insult, label and attack, the first sign you've already lost the argument. Are the Australians, New Zealanders, Taiwanese and Vietnamese to name a few under a spell of xenophobic delusion too? Well whatever it is they are under, it is a huge pity the Irish aren't under it too cause those countries are doing mighty fine now.

You'll find that I advocate for the border to be closed if Arlene cannot be bothered to co-operate. She has a choice, seal the island or seal the border. It was sealed for cattle in the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak. This disease is far more devastating.

That's hilarious, given those options Arlene would only love to seal the border, if it was actually possible to do it (it isn't). That some people in the Republic actually think for a second that the DUP would even entertain the idea of sealing off the island from their beloved United Kingdom shows how little many in the south know about Northern Ireland.

Look, you can advocate for closing the border all you want, it doesn't change the fact that it is literally impossible to do. 275 road crossings in addition to numerous other unofficial crossings, houses and businesses that sit on the border itself and an inhabited part of County Monaghan that it is literally impossible to enter or leave without travelling through the UK. And that's before you consider essential inward delivery journeys from NI and the UK that require drivers and can't be stopped not to mention the longer term political implications of trying to close off the border. We are not a remote island state in the Pacific Ocean like New Zealand is. In fact, we're not even an island state.

Like I said, it's our own form of Trumpism or Brexitism, build a wall and all the problems will somehow magically go away.

Danno wrote: »

Once the longer evenings return and the weather picks up you'll find that the people in this country will less and less accept almost year long restrictions and will circumvent them and who'd blame them - there is a thing as lockdown fatigue you know.

By then, the policies you admire will have successfully imported the south American strain which will be no doubt circulating nicely. Yay!

This is interesting because you previously said that:

Danno wrote: »

* Irish people collectively have PROVEN that we can pretty much eradicate this virus.

* International travellers have PROVEN that they cannot be trusted to not re-introduce the virus in to our community.

Yet now you are saying that actually people here won't bother with the rules after all and they'll just circumvent them once the weather picks up a bit. And yet that will all still somehow be the fault of your favourite scapegoat, international travellers. Sorry, but this is comedy gold.

Look, a certain portion of the population has been given a platform for a few days now to vent about people entering and leaving the state and have shown themselves up as a result, but we really need to refocus our efforts on minimising the impact of the virus at home now and move away from this kind of populist nonsense. Enough is enough.

faceman

gozunda wrote: »

Source:
https://lanzaroteinformation.co.uk/corona-virus-in-lanzarote/

This site gives a better snapshot of up to date cases and 14 day rates for the Canaries. Lanzarote is comparable with Ireland at present. However other areas are in way better shape with little or no covid.

Don’t tell the media about the good areas though. It will go against the TRAVEL BAD OK narrative

https://cvcanarias.com/en