Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

SheepsClothing

gmisk wrote: »

20 more countries to be added to Ireland's mandatory hotel quarantine list https://jrnl.ie/5351005

This is just a continuation of the Swiss cheese approach the government has taken to pandemic response. From piecemeal contact tracing, to level 2.5 restrictions, there has never been a half measure they didn't embrace.

Banana Republic 1

SheepsClothing wrote: »

This is just a continuation of the Swiss cheese approach the government has taken to pandemic response. From piecemeal contact tracing, to level 2.5 restrictions, there has never been a half measure they didn't embrace.

Hopefully their hand will be forced by what the British are going to do. Whatever legislation was needed to bail out the banks and bond holders was brought in overnight, pathetic shower of stuffed shirts the lot of them.

darem93

SheepsClothing wrote: »

This is just a continuation of the Swiss cheese approach the government has taken to pandemic response. From piecemeal contact tracing, to level 2.5 restrictions, there has never been a half measure they didn't embrace.

It's all just a box ticking exercise with them and making it look like they're doing something, rather than showing some initiative and pulling out all the stops to make sure a policy actually works.

goingnowhere

We are still working backwards. You start with the premise of every country is banned full stop and have a small list of ok countries, basically EEA by default (Austria though is a problem). PCR before and 5 days after arrival, simple proportional.

You then eliminate all visa free travel to stop people skipping via third countries to dodge. We can't do that to EEA/UK but we can in a single move make it impossible to travel from ~170 odd counties as you will be turned back before you get on a plane.

If you need to travel to Ireland, go beg at the embassy who will then set you up with the hotel, pcr bookings etc. You pay up front. Irish citizens have a right of entry, cannot stop them but thats when the hotel play comes in.

Tenzor07

goingnowhere wrote: »

We are still working backwards. You start with the premise of every country is banned full stop and have a small list of ok countries, basically EEA by default (Austria though is a problem). PCR before and 5 days after arrival, simple proportional.You then eliminate all visa free travel to stop people skipping via third countries to dodge. We can't do that to EEA/UK but we can in a single move make it impossible to travel from ~170 odd counties as you will be turned back before you get on a plane.If you need to travel to Ireland, go beg at the embassy who will then set you up with the hotel, pcr bookings etc. You pay up front. Irish citizens have a right of entry, cannot stop them but thats when the hotel play comes in.

So to sum up then, "New Zealand".....?

I see Australia are thinking of sending any citizens returning out to an off-shore migrant detention center instead of bringing them into hotels near towns and cities....good idea huh?

a_squirrelman

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So to sum up then, "New Zealand".....?

I see Australia are thinking of sending any citizens returning out to an off-shore migrant detention center instead of bringing them into hotels near towns and cities....good idea huh?

Bit of an overreaction. Surely they still need people to feed and water the prisoners on the detention island, so what's the difference with them being in the hotel?
If they're in the hotel they're not out and about in the town or city anyway.

Tenzor07

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Bit of an overreaction. Surely they still need people to feed and water the prisoners on the detention island, so what's the difference with them being in the hotel?
If they're in the hotel they're not out and about in the town or city anyway.

I guess it will be run by the Australian military "Contagion" style, aircraft will land at the site and, Prisoners returning citizens kept in isolation rooms and meals left at the hatch on the door of each room by someone in full bio-hazard gear.. only contact will be the PCR tests during the period of detention..

ginoginelli

It seems like most of the goverment is finally shifting to an acceptance that hotel quarantine is the only way to control the virus.

This has been so ****ing obvious since march. Those ****wits have let a lot of people die, ruined businesses and people overall quality of life, in pursuing their wolly, poorly thought out living with covid plan.

Incredulously, there is still elements in goverment stubbornly dragging their heels about proper implementation . Cute hoors Charlie Flanagan and his ilk. The usual crowd who fooked us up years ago and have argued tooth and nail about every resctrions - from common sense stuff like mandatory masks, to bans on indoor dining.

These dimwits should have no place in our goverment. **** all real world experience between the lot of them, and they seem to create more problems than solutions. They are too busy arguing in the dail over trivial legislation while people are dying and getting infected by new variants.

mandrake04

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Bit of an overreaction. Surely they still need people to feed and water the prisoners on the detention island, so what's the difference with them being in the hotel?
If they're in the hotel they're not out and about in the town or city anyway.

Because people in the cities where the hotels are simply don’t want them there, these people are viewed as a threat. It’s public opinion driving it not the government.

tobefrank321

ginoginelli wrote: »

It seems like most of the goverment is finally shifting to an acceptance that hotel quarantine is the only way to control the virus.

This has been so ****ing obvious since march. Those ****wits have let a lot of people die, ruined businesses and people overall quality of life, in pursuing their wolly, poorly thought out living with covid plan.

Incredulously, there is still elements in goverment stubbornly dragging their heels about proper implementation . Cute hoors Charlie Flanagan and his ilk. The usual crowd who fooked us up years ago and have argued tooth and nail about every resctrions - from common sense stuff like mandatory masks, to bans on indoor dining.

These dimwits should have no place in our goverment. **** all real world experience between the lot of them, and they seem to create more problems than solutions. They are too busy arguing in the dail over trivial legislation while people are dying and getting infected by new variants.

No problem with anything you say. The only successful countries in fighting Covid have mandatory hotel quarantine for ALL visitors, no exceptions, none, not even for essential workers.

However, our government and many others in the EU based their approach on advice from the WHO, who said closing borders was a bad idea, wouldn't work etc etc. This has been proved categorically wrong.

But like you say it was obvious mandatory quarantine was the only way to avoid near permanent national lockdowns that do nothing to prevent the importation of new variants.

Australia and NZ are normal apart from quarantines these days. Two weeks in a hotel is a small inconvenience to save 5 million from lockdown.

And there should be checkpoints on the border instead of checking why we are all leaving our house.

tobefrank321

gmisk wrote: »

20 more countries to be added to Ireland's mandatory hotel quarantine list https://jrnl.ie/5351005

Have the quarantine hotels actually opened yet?

tobefrank321

SheepsClothing wrote: »

This is just a continuation of the Swiss cheese approach the government has taken to pandemic response. From piecemeal contact tracing, to level 2.5 restrictions, there has never been a half measure they didn't embrace.

They are just populist gombeens.

We'll try this plan but only if its popular and if it annoys someone we'll backtrack and we might or mightn't implement it, depending on feedback. And we'll make big PR out of something we may end up not doing.

Tenzor07

tobefrank321 wrote: »

However, our government and many others in the EU based their approach on advice from the WHO, who said closing borders was a bad idea, wouldn't work etc etc. This has been proved categorically wrong. And there should be checkpoints on the border instead of checking why we are all leaving our house.

A decision on closing all EU borders isn't made on purely medical grounds and has to be weighed up socially, economically and politically...so as to ensure the cure isn't worse than the disease.. Take the North for example, is it fair to lockdown the borders for residents who need to get there for family, work, shopping and other essential purposes... the cost of permanently manning these posts... the sight of Irish/British soldiers on the borders for security as lets face it a few unarmed Gardai isn't going to be safe for them or anyone else...plus having to withdraw 100's of Garda from duty nationally to man border crossings...

I honestly wonder how people have internalised the Chinese communist state level restrictions and believe they should be introduced without debate into a democratic union of countries..

tobefrank321

Tenzor07 wrote: »

A decision on closing all EU borders isn't made on purely medical grounds and has to be weighed up socially, economically and politically...so as to ensure the cure isn't worse than the disease.. Take the North for example, is it fair to lockdown the borders for residents who need to get there for family, work, shopping and other essential purposes... the cost of permanently manning these posts... the sight of Irish/British soldiers on the borders for security as lets face it a few unarmed Gardai isn't going to be safe for them or anyone else...plus having to withdraw 100's of Garda from duty nationally to man border crossings...

I honestly wonder how people have internalised the Chinese communist state level restrictions and believe they should be introduced without debate into a democratic union of countries..

China is only one country. Numerous others have closed the borders with pretty good effect, eg Aus, NZ, Taiwan etc. Other remote countries have done well because of their remoteness, eg Finland.

Army or gardai can be used at border. We aren't in the troubles so cut the nonsense about gardai being under threat.

Yes move hundreds of gardai to stop importation of new variants, otherwise we are wasting our time locking down.

Had the EU closed borders for a month last March, most EU countries would have been in a better position for the first wave, ourselves included. That was obvious.

All our three waves came initially from foreign travel or travel from the UK mainland with people not bothering their h*les to quarantine. People are still coming to the south from the north and the UK mainland.

Voluntary quarantine doesnt work, we know that. Nor does open borders.

Tenzor07

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Army or gardai can be used at border. We aren't in the troubles so cut the nonsense about gardai being under threat.
Yes move hundreds of gardai to stop importation of new variants, otherwise we are wasting our time locking down.
Had the EU closed borders for a month last March, most EU countries would have been in a better position for the first wave, ourselves included. That was obvious.

Not sure if you're just naive or believe that the return of the Army to the borders with N.I is a good move to stop a virus, a cure most definitely worse than the disease....
Move 100's of Gardai when we've a small Police force(even less due to Covid isolation) from active duty in the rest of the country to go patrol the borders... What happens to security in the rest of the Island..."Hello 999, we're sorry but we've no Gards to protect you from being robbed/stabbed/killed..."

Pure craziness...

caveat emptor

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Not sure if you're just naive or believe that the return of the Army to the borders with N.I is a good move to stop a virus, a cure most definitely worse than the disease....
Move 100's of Gardai when we've a small Police force(even less due to Covid isolation) from active duty in the rest of the country to go patrol the borders... What happens to security in the rest of the Island..."Hello 999, we're sorry but we've no Gards to protect you from being robbed/stabbed/killed..."

Pure craziness...

What's cray is your insistence that quarantine can't work. It's the only thing that has ever worked .......ever. It's great that we are finally doing it. Pity it took a year and so could have avoided all of the below

• many businesses closed
• jobs lost
• kids out of school
• burnt out health care workers
• long covid cases
• bereaved families
• and lives lost

Tenzor07

caveat emptor wrote: »

What's cray is your insistence that quarantine can't work. It's the only thing that has ever worked .......ever. It's great that we are finally doing it. Pity it took a year and so could have avoided all of the below

Your usual patronizing response to half reading my comments I see...

I was quite specific in my comment about the N.I border.

The EU, the Irish Government and the WHO all agree that nailing shut the borders isn't the Silver bullet you may believe it is, and is only one method once the levels of infection are at a very low...not high rate!

If you're reply's are going to be patronizing snipes then don't bother.

darem93

I look at photos and videos of my friends in Australia attending boat parties with crowds of people and a DJ, all of them dancing and enjoying themselves. They're going to gyms, restaurants, attending work each morning and doing all the things we so desperately long to do over here. I think how in the name of god can anyone argue against the approach they've taken?

We are sat here in the third lockdown in 11 months, with everything closed down, no end goal in sight, a vaccine rollout that is moving at a snail's pace and peoples mental health at an all time low. Our "strategy" has utterly failed, and yet people are still arguing tooth and nail that it's the only approach we can take.

I really hope now that the UK is implementing hotel quarantining that our shower will finally get their finger out. However it doesn't look too promising when Leo is calling their measures "too extreme" and coming up with excuses like "what will smokers do?" now that the oh so sacred NI border excuse could be out the window.

tobefrank321

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Not sure if you're just naive or believe that the return of the Army to the borders with N.I is a good move to stop a virus, a cure most definitely worse than the disease....
Move 100's of Gardai when we've a small Police force(even less due to Covid isolation) from active duty in the rest of the country to go patrol the borders... What happens to security in the rest of the Island..."Hello 999, we're sorry but we've no Gards to protect you from being robbed/stabbed/killed..."

Pure craziness...

Even the most hardcore of republicans and loyalists would see sense around border control and covid.

Odd that they see it and you don't!

You seem to be stuck in a 1980s timewarp - times have moved on - Gardai at the border or just inside the Irish side of the border is not going to restart the NI conflict so cut the absolute nonsense talk.

The cure would be far far better than the disease on this occasion. As it stands we're looking at another 6-9 months of near permanent lockdown using your approach and also costing countless lives.

YOUR APPROACH HASN'T WORKED.

Tenzor07

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Even the most hardcore of republicans and loyalists would see sense around border control and covid. Odd that they see it and you don't! You seem to be stuck in a 1980s timewarp - times have moved on - Gardai at the border or just inside the Irish side of the border is not going to restart the NI conflict so cut the absolute nonsense talk.
The cure would be far far better than the disease on this occasion. As it stands we're looking at another 6-9 months of near permanent lockdown using your approach and also costing countless lives.
YOUR APPROACH HASN'T WORKED.

The stumbling block for the Brexit agreement was the border and not reintroducing a hard border, thus protecting the GFA... now the crazies want to suspend all that to try and somehow protect one side of a line from the other from a microscopic virus which is endemic on both sides of the line..
Great what can be used to do away with democratic agreements and throw good sense away..
The approach now is to Vaccinate in 2021 not nail the country lines shut... this isn't 2020 sunshine..

tobefrank321

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The stumbling block for the Brexit agreement was the border and not reintroducing a hard border, thus protecting the GFA... now the crazies want to suspend all that to try and somehow protect one side of a line from the other from a microscopic virus which is endemic on both sides of the line..
Great what can be used to do away with democratic agreements and throw good sense away..
The approach now is to Vaccinate in 2021 not nail the country lines shut... this isn't 2020 sunshine..

The only crazies here are people who don't understand that border control is essential to containing Covid, particularly new variants.

Almost twice the number of people have died of covid in 10 months than in 30 years of the Troubles. Tell me a day during the Troubles when 100 people died.

Tenzor07

darem93 wrote: »

I look at photos and videos of my friends in Australia attending boat parties with crowds of people and a DJ, all of them dancing and enjoying themselves. They're going to gyms, restaurants, attending work each morning and doing all the things we so desperately long to do over here. I think how in the name of god can anyone argue against the approach they've taken? We are sat here in the third lockdown in 11 months, with everything closed down, no end goal in sight, a vaccine rollout that is moving at a snail's pace and peoples mental health at an all time low. Our "strategy" has utterly failed, and yet people are still arguing tooth and nail that it's the only approach we can take.I really hope now that the UK is implementing hotel quarantining that our shower will finally get their finger out. However it doesn't look too promising when Leo is calling their measures "too extreme" and coming up with excuses like "what will smokers do?" now that the oh so sacred NI border excuse could be out the window.

You forgot "But New Zealand?"

Tenzor07

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The only crazies here are people who don't understand that border control is essential to containing Covid, particularly new variants..

Ah but "The Variants"....

Are these the same Variants that are present across all borders?

Once the borders are shut and other new Variants come about in Ireland what will they shut next? Maybe attach engines to the coast line and move us out further into the Atlantic?

tobefrank321

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ah but "The Variants"....

Are these the same Variants that are present across all borders?

Once the borders are shut and other new Variants come about in Ireland what will they shut next? Maybe attach engines to the coast line and move us out further into the Atlantic?

Are there new variants in Australia or NZ? And if not why not?

We are bordering the UK mainland where several more infectious new variants have been identified.

We can control our ports and airports. We can't control NI ports. But we can control our side of the border.

Without controlling new more infectious variants coming in which appear to be able to get around lockdowns on many occassions we will be stuck in lockdown until the Autumn.

The open borders brigade have lost the argument. Time to bring in strict controls.

caveat emptor

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Your usual patronizing response to half reading my comments I see...

I was quite specific in my comment about the N.I border.

The EU, the Irish Government and the WHO all agree that nailing shut the borders isn't the Silver bullet you may believe it is, and is only one method once the levels of infection are at a very low...not high rate!

If you're reply's are going to be patronizing snipes then don't bother.

Oh I said your insistence. Not reply to a post rather your absolute rejection of the idea without considering the trade off. If you weren't talking about northern Irish border you'd be talking about how "travel is in our DNA" or you'd be describing a two week stay in a 4 star hotel as detention camp.

Same **** different day. :pac:

I enjoyed the discussion with you yesterday where you seemed to know quite a bit about Ryanair and how the plan routes based on demand and don't do refunds by operating ghost flights.

Thanks for the inside track on how it works.

Tenzor07

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Are there new variants in Australia or NZ? And if not why not?
We are bordering the UK mainland where several more infectious new variants have been identified.
We can control our ports and airports. We can't control NI ports. But we can control our side of the border.

There is yes, from returning citizens passing it onto hotel workers..

Anyone who brings up "But Australia....... but New Zealand..." just is taking the P now at this stage...

Pulling up the drawbridge before the Virus became endemic last Spring would have been the best approach.

Tenzor07

caveat emptor wrote: »

Oh I said your insistence. Not reply to a post rather your absolute rejection of the idea without considering the trade off. If you weren't talking about northern Irish border you'd be talking about how "travel is in our DNA" or you'd be describing a two week stay in a 4 star hotel as detention camp.Same **** different day. :pac:I enjoyed the discussion with you yesterday where you seemed to know quite a bit about Ryanair and how the plan routes based on demand and don't do refunds by operating ghost flights.
Thanks for the inside track on how it works.

I never said "travel is in our DNA" now you're just making stuff up.... And as always play the ball not the player...

tobefrank321

Tenzor07 wrote: »

There is yes, from returning citizens passing it onto hotel workers..

Anyone who brings up "But Australia....... but New Zealand..." just is taking the P now at this stage...

Pulling up the drawbridge before the Virus became endemic last Spring would have been the best approach.

We had three opportunities to pull up the drawbridge, during each wave. We missed all 3.

We got numbers down to low single digits after the first lockdown. Foreign travel brought them back up again, as it did Christmas this year.

There are just an awful lot of idiots who like to travel and who won't quarantine when they return and will go about their daily business.
These idiots should be locked up for two weeks after they return from anywhere.

Why should 5 million suffer because of a few thousands idiots? Surely it should be the other way around?

As for cases in Australia, we're talking the odd case here or there. Its much easier to contact trace one or two cases than 1000 cases a day.

caveat emptor

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I never said "travel is in our DNA" now you're just making stuff up.... And as always play the ball not the player...

Sorry you are right. You did not say that. I sympathise with people who work in the industry but we have some hard choices to make and every sector is going to lobby and craw.

We only have bad options I'm afraid and some are worse than others on a national and moral level. Our politics is not designed to deal with it so we are seeing mad things like 90% of people demanding something for their protection but the government ignoring it.

tobefrank321

Our current approach cost 20 billion last year. Its probably going to cost 30 billion this year. It also cost thousands of lives.

Controlling the borders would cost no more than a couple billion a year if even.

Its a no brainer.