Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Tenzor07

scouserstation wrote: »

Not many senators or ministers are going to stand against this it will take a high level of civil disobedience to reverse some of these measures, what's sickening is the amount of left wing politicians cheerleading these draconian restrictions on our civil rights, its rather ironic given the same ministers acted in disgust last summer when it was suggested cutting unemployment payments for those that chose to travel, opportunists the lot of them

100%, Govt. Ministers don't step outside the party line in any way shape or form, independent thinking isn't allowed..

Also the Senate is basically a retirement home for old T.D's or a cushy job and pension for political friends and allies...

Fine Gael promised to get rid of the Senate.. Since then they have done the exact opposite of all their fake promises:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fg-promises-to-abolish-seanad-1.847849

Potatoeman

Rather than bringing in fines for people flying back wouldn’t it make more sense to stop the airlines selling flights?

MarkY91

Potatoeman wrote: »

Rather than bringing in fines for people flying back wouldn’t it make more sense to stop the airlines selling flights?

Why? Negative PCR test when leaving, before returning and after returning.

What exactly would your issue be in the scenario above?

Tenzor07

Potatoeman wrote: »

Rather than bringing in fines for people flying back wouldn’t it make more sense to stop the airlines selling flights?

Why not Indeed... the whole response is a mess..



https://www.thejournal.ie/coveney-travel-5149112-Jul2020/

terenc

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Why not Indeed... the whole response is a mess..



https://www.thejournal.ie/coveney-travel-5149112-Jul2020/

Nearly time to bring back the Bulgarian fruit pickers , Coveney is not going to upset his inlaws by banning flights packed with workers for the Keady fruit empire , good time to get into bannanas and put one through the tricolour.

maestroamado

Potatoeman wrote: »

Rather than bringing in fines for people flying back wouldn’t it make more sense to stop the airlines selling flights?

I am pretty confident Michael O'Leary take legal action and win.
The whole thing is a shambles, i was on a flight in Jan and more than half the people travelled from NI to Dublin as Belfast flight cancelled, this was before the testing on Jan 15.
One lady told me she had paid for test in NI and flight cancelled, she could travel from Dublin without test.

Potatoeman

MarkY91 wrote: »

Why? Negative PCR test when leaving, before returning and after returning.

What exactly would your issue be in the scenario above?

Rather than blaming holiday makers why not go after the airlines? People cant fly off on holidays if there are no flights. This would mean essential travel would be far less frequent and more expensive but the current plan is a disjointed mess.

caveat emptor

maestroamado wrote: »

I am pretty confident Michael O'Leary take legal action and win.
The whole thing is a shambles, i was on a flight in Jan and more than half the people travelled from NI to Dublin as Belfast flight cancelled, this was before the testing on Jan 15.
One lady told me she had paid for test in NI and flight cancelled, she could travel from Dublin without test.

Yeah you are probably right given the conduct of a certain Supreme Court justice this summer. He'd probably side with Mr O'Leary as regards restrictions or lack thereof.


Golf and travel are after all ecumenical rights.

doublejobbing 2

90% of cases now a variant that all but didn't exist in Ireland in early December, that we had the chance to avoid if we shut the points of entry by circa December 8th.

A variant that came back from London.

A variant Mehole believed we could keep out by politely asking ex pats not to travel.

If not for this absolute tool today we would be reporting less than 60 cases. Way less, as some of the root cases of traditional Covid also came back from London. We would be at July 2021 levels.

Our economy would largely be open. All building sites, all non essential retail. Pubs, they wouldn't give us back before Paddy's Day regardless probably. But the rest, without a doubt.

When are these people going to be held to account for the lost productivity, lost personal earnings, lost lives (by more than Covid without a doubt)? Why do I have to take a hit of thousands in lost earnings while the people who were asleep at the wheel are not personally impacted?

This is absolute criminal negligence.

Frankly, it all appears deliberate, not even negligent. Mehole perhaps being daft enough to have been taken advantage of by others who can use the January surge for their own ends.

gozunda

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

90% of cases now a variant that all but didn't exist in Ireland in early December, that we had the chance to avoid if we shut the points of entry by circa December 8th.

A variant that came back from London.

A variant Mehole believed we could keep out by politely asking ex pats not to travel.

...

"90% of cases now a variant that all but didn't exist in Ireland in early December"

A varient which is significantly more transmissible...

From March 2020 - November 2020 = 9 Months approx ~ 2000 deaths

From November 2020 - February 2021 = 4 Months Approx ~ 2000 deaths

And we have eejits asking why they can't travel and screaming they need their holidays in Playa del Tontos or wherever ...

Trouble is without an outright ban on travel- then same people are still going to insist on travelling and fek the rest of us ...

TXPTGR1

mod snip - uncivil

Ted_YNWA

TXPTGR1 wrote: »

So much whinging from entitled narcissists- you can go a bit longer with out a sun holiday you absolute geebags- civil rights my hole

Mod - Keep you emotions is check.

There is absolute no need to descend to this level of name-calling.

MarkY91

Potatoeman wrote: »

Rather than blaming holiday makers why not go after the airlines? People cant fly off on holidays if there are no flights. This would mean essential travel would be far less frequent and more expensive but the current plan is a disjointed mess.

If you want to live in a North Korea kind of country with no human rights, then off you go to North Korea. Leave the rest of us to live our lives.

faceman

Finally, good to see human rights and civil liberties are now in the equation. (Although its incredibly concerning that it took legal concerns rather than compassion and humanity to take heed). It is outrageous that the detained cannot even live the room for solo exercise.

We give more freedoms to people with the virus than those who dont.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/hotel-quarantine-concern-for-civil-liberties-sparks-changes-to-system-1083002.html

Potatoeman

MarkY91 wrote: »

If you want to live in a North Korea kind of country with no human rights, then off you go to North Korea. Leave the rest of us to live our lives.

Then what is the legality of fines issued by the gardai? If you can go on holiday then why can’t you cross county lines?

maestroamado

If someone flies to Belfast and travel South, how are they monitored?

IngazZagni

maestroamado wrote: »

If someone flies to Belfast and travel South, how are they monitored?

They aren't. That's why this whole "we can be New Zealand" rhetoric is flawed and that's only one of the reasons why.
It's well known people are travelling Britain-Belfast-ROI to avoid paying for the pcr test and being subject to quarantine measures.

That aside the vast majority of covid transmission is still within the community and not from travel. It's a complete side show and a distraction from our failing ability to stamp out the spread locally.

Banana Republic 1

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

90% of cases

Not to disagree with you on that point, when they say 90% they mean of those that have been tested. Between 40 and 60% of people who contract covid are asymptomatic. Ireland doesn't random test the public so they can't have a very accurate view of where or how the viruses is lurking.

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

who can use the January surge for their own ends.

Do you mean the undertakers guild.

maestroamado

h

IngazZagni wrote: »

They aren't. That's why this whole "we can be New Zealand" rhetoric is flawed and that's only one of the reasons why.
It's well known people are travelling Britain-Belfast-ROI to avoid paying for the pcr test and being subject to quarantine measures.

That aside the vast majority of covid transmission is still within the community and not from travel. It's a complete side show and a distraction from our failing ability to stamp out the spread locally.

Thats what i ecxperienced last Month but i thought there may have being a new plan put in place when we started testing on Jan 15.
From the vaccine number in the media it seems clear NI will be out of this current lockdown before us.
I nactually felt quite safe on the plane as they be thoroughly at least onec each day.
A friend told me recently that the airlines have fitted something new in air-con to clean the air as it passes through?

Banana Republic 1

maestroamado wrote: »

h

Thats what i ecxperienced last Month but i thought there may have being a new plan put in place when we started testing on Jan 15.
From the vaccine number in the media it seems clear NI will be out of this current lockdown before us.
I nactually felt quite safe on the plane as they be thoroughly at least onec each day.
A friend told me recently that the airlines have fitted something new in air-con to clean the air as it passes through?

They were meant to have them all along even before covid but it cost more fuel to run proper hepa filtration ergo they cut corners.

Dyr

faceman wrote: »

Finally, good to see human rights and civil liberties are now in the equation. (Although its incredibly concerning that it took legal concerns rather than compassion and humanity to take heed). It is outrageous that the detained cannot even live the room for solo exercise.

We give more freedoms to people with the virus than those who dont.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/hotel-quarantine-concern-for-civil-liberties-sparks-changes-to-system-1083002.html

Legal challenge my hole, The Green party don't like the optics.

Concern was voiced that asylum seekers, minors, or Irish citizens returning for a funeral of a close relative could have their rights adversely affected.

Put some ****ing control on the airports the same way the rest of us are having to live with restrictions while the corona is waltzing in on flights witout let or hindrance.

a_squirrelman

Bambi wrote: »

Legal challenge my hole, The Green party don't like the optics.




Put some ****ing control on the airports the same way the rest of us are having to live with restrictions while the corona is waltzing in on flights witout let or hindrance.

Ah give over, I bet you had a lovely Christmas. And you'll have a nice bbq with your mates over as soon as the sun starts shining. Ye did it to yourselves.

doublejobbing 2

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Do you mean the undertakers guild.

NPHET and their war on pubs?

FG being able to claim "well we would have done it differently but MM had his own ideas" come election time?

Blaming a lack of funding for X Y and Z ten years from now as a hangover from the Covid crisis?

Take your pick. Never let a crisis go to waste as they say. This was too easy to prevent to have not been partly deliberate IMO. They are taking actions on travel now that were impossible six months ago apparently.

doublejobbing 2

IngazZagni wrote: »

They aren't. That's why this whole "we can be New Zealand" rhetoric is flawed and that's only one of the reasons why.
It's well known people are travelling Britain-Belfast-ROI to avoid paying for the pcr test and being subject to quarantine measures.

The sheer effort involved in this, and the risk of encountering checkpoints along the way, means that fewer people would be inclined to bother, than were bothered flying from Cork Airport to Lanzarote.

That aside the vast majority of covid transmission is still within the community and not from travel. It's a complete side show and a distraction from our failing ability to stamp out the spread locally.

If Sean from London arrived in Belmullet from London on December 21st, and infected 12 friends at a house party (who infected 50 more people), and his parents, and his three brothers, two sisters, and their spouses on Christmas Day, and their 10 kids, and Sean's sister in law brought it in to the nursing home she works in and spread it to 17 staff and they spread it to 12 patients, and the staff spread it to their 12 spouses and 30 children, that there is over 150 cases that did not exist until Sean brought the original case home from London.

But only Sean's case is logged as a case related to foreign travel. One case, out of the 100 plus it caused in the fortnight after he arrived. Its offshoots are still out there three months later, but only he is the travel case.

Much of Eastern Europe was relatively unscathed by the first wave but hit the second one by July/ August, yet nobody makes the connection between this and the first resurgence of the virus here beginning in meat plants!

But despite all of this Tony Holohan will till tell us travel s responsible for 2% of cases. He has been there since July repeating this bare faced lie while claiming pubs are as dangerous as Chernobyl.

This is junior infants logic. This is why nobody believes the government any more apart from FG loyalists and left wingers who love the misery of a good lockdown.

Dyr

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Ah give over, I bet you had a lovely Christmas. And you'll have a nice bbq with your mates over as soon as the sun starts shining. Ye did it to yourselves.

Nope, had a miserable christmas, swing on the miss there buddy.

Locking down the whole country for its citizens while letting the world and his brother swan into the country. Interesting approach.

faceman

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

The sheer effort involved in this, and the risk of encountering checkpoints along the way, means that fewer people would be inclined to bother, than were bothered flying from Cork Airport to Lanzarote.



If Sean from London arrived in Belmullet from London on December 21st, and infected 12 friends at a house party (who infected 50 more people), and his parents, and his three brothers, two sisters, and their spouses on Christmas Day, and their 10 kids, and Sean's sister in law brought it in to the nursing home she works in and spread it to 17 staff and they spread it to 12 patients, and the staff spread it to their 12 spouses and 30 children, that there is over 150 cases that did not exist until Sean brought the original case home from London.

But only Sean's case is logged as a case related to foreign travel. One case, out of the 100 plus it caused in the fortnight after he arrived. Its offshoots are still out there three months later, but only he is the travel case.

Much of Eastern Europe was relatively unscathed by the first wave but hit the second one by July/ August, yet nobody makes the connection between this and the first resurgence of the virus here beginning in meat plants!

But despite all of this Tony Holohan will till tell us travel s responsible for 2% of cases. He has been there since July repeating this bare faced lie while claiming pubs are as dangerous as Chernobyl.

This is junior infants logic. This is why nobody believes the government any more apart from FG loyalists and left wingers who love the misery of a good lockdown.

That’s because the subsequent cases aren’t travel related. Their related to people not following the rules and guidelines in other settings. It can be twisted any way you wish but that’s the simple facts of the matter, it’s how the science and experts view it.

a_squirrelman

Bambi wrote: »

Nope, had a miserable christmas, swing on the miss there buddy.

Locking down the whole country for its citizens while letting the world and his brother swan into the country. Interesting approach.

Lock up the citizens with covid so. Can't have double standards Bambi.

Banana Republic 1

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

NPHET and their war on pubs?

FG being able to claim "well we would have done it differently but MM had his own ideas" come election time?

Blaming a lack of funding for X Y and Z ten years from now as a hangover from the Covid crisis?

Take your pick. Never let a crisis go to waste as they say. This was too easy to prevent to have not been partly deliberate IMO. They are taking actions on travel now that were impossible six months ago apparently.

You mistake incompetents as intent

doublejobbing 2

faceman wrote: »

That’s because the subsequent cases aren’t travel related. Their related to people not following the rules and guidelines in other settings. It can be twisted any way you wish but that’s the simple facts of the matter

You must seriously be on a wind up.

If Ireland had closed its borders to tourism in July we would have days, even weeks in a row with zero cases. There would always be a handful of cases from truckers, airline crews, ship crews but nothing unmanageable. Reduced capacity pubs and sporting events would be allowed, the only things still closed would be nightclubs and probably some concerts (concert licenses would probably be granted on how likely the attendees were to drink heavily and end up at parties afterwards).

If Ireland had waited until as late as mid December to shut off travel, and told the London ex pats to fcuk off somewhere else and have a cry about their mental health and need for family, we would currently be experiencing likely less than 30 cases per day, if even that.

Instead we allowed them in because Mehole thought that, while they declined his polite request not to come at all, they would at least spend the two weeks locked in their parents spare room receiving daily deliveries of turkey and cans.


In the run up to Christmas 1 in 30 Londoners were reckoned to be carrying the virus. More than 1 in 30 of those arriving from London brought the virus with them.

But no, it were de pubs wot did it.

faceman

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

You must seriously be on a wind up.

If Ireland had closed its borders to tourism in July we would have days, even weeks in a row with zero cases. There would always be a handful of cases from truckers, airline crews, ship crews but nothing unmanageable. Reduced capacity pubs and sporting events would be allowed, the only things still closed would be nightclubs and probably some concerts (concert licenses would probably be granted on how likely the attendees were to drink heavily and end up at parties afterwards).

Nonsense. Have you even research the topic? What are you basing your science on? NZ? Australia?

wrote:

If Ireland had waited until as late as mid December to shut off travel, and told the London ex pats to fcuk off somewhere else and have a cry about their mental health and need for family, we would currently be experiencing likely less than 30 cases per day, if even that.

Instead we allowed them in because Mehole thought that, while they declined his polite request not to come at all, they would at least spend the two weeks locked in their parents spare room receiving daily deliveries of turkey and cans.

Says it all really. :rolleyes:

wrote:

In the run up to Christmas 1 in 30 Londoners were reckoned to be carrying the virus. More than 1 in 30 of those arriving from London brought the virus with them.

Maths isn't your strong point either.

wrote:

But no, it were de pubs wot did it.

Yep, you've read the weekly HSPC reports right. Yay.