Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

GT89

For Forks Sake wrote: »

He's the Minister for Foreign Affairs, and also Ireland currently have a seat on the UN Security Council.

It's literally his job.

Running/working in hospitality is someone's job
Construction is someones job
"Non essential" retail is someones job
Aviation is someone's job
Taxi driving is someones job

If his job is considered "essential" then maybe the rest of us can go back to work too. I don't actually have a problem with him going to Iran. I have with the government imposing a lockdown and then still going on state visits.

Tyrone212

Danno wrote: »

Wrong. HSE are giving the AstraZenica second dose after 12 weeks. I was at a vaccination centre on Friday and confirmed this in person. Just because you're a lefty spouting anti-right nonsense doesn't make it true.

Get a grip and don't be so sensitive. An Irish person mentioning the tories negatively doesn't automatically mean they are a lefty. Or do you not know your History. Get out of the over americanised right vs left bollox mindset. It's beyond boring.

Chivito550

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Tories have decieded that they know more than scientists when it comes to vaccination, so have decided that the gap between 1st and 2nd doses should be 12 weeks, rather than the manufacturers recommended 4.

So, a person who gets their first shot today in Ireland will have their second shot on 3rd April. Job done.
Person in the UK gets first shot today won't have their second one until sometime in early June.

Person is not considered fully vaccinated until a couple of weeks after they have had their second shot.
So, my point is that it's not a level playing field, lets check back in June and see how both countries are looking at that stage.

Not true. I had my AZ jab on Friday in Dublin and I was told 12 weeks for my next dose.

Kid Charlemagne

GT89 wrote: »

Coveney in Iran whilst your under house arrest. Absolute joke of a government. It's disgrace that Coveney going to Iran is considered essential but ordinary Irish citizens trying to make an honest days living to provide for their family is considered un essential.

I'm no fan of politicians but its not as if hes over there on the lash with the lads!!

Danno

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Get a grip and don't be so sensitive. An Irish person mentioning the tories negatively doesn't automatically mean they are a lefty. Or do you not know your History. Get out of the over americanised right vs left bollox mindset. It's beyond boring.

Sorry champ, but anyone suggesting that the 12-week spread between dose 1 and dose 2 of the AZ vaccine is strictly a "Tory" policy when it has been demonstrated that the policy is anything but - alludes that their gripe is with the political leaning of said party other than anything else. Try again.

Danno

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

I'm no fan of politicians but its not as if hes over there on the lash with the lads!!

Different kinds of lash in that place.

Kid Charlemagne

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

I mean, the blaming the evil, diseased outsiders thing has been tiresome from the beginning, but it's a complete joke at this stage when the Republic is so far behind the North and GB with vaccinations.

Daft comment. The countries that closed borders dealt more effectively with covid. Stop getting triggered by imagined xenophobia. Nothing got to do with it.

Tyrone212

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Tories have decieded that they know more than scientists when it comes to vaccination, so have decided that the gap between 1st and 2nd doses should be 12 weeks, rather than the manufacturers recommended 4.

So, a person who gets their first shot today in Ireland will have their second shot on 3rd April. Job done.
Person in the UK gets first shot today won't have their second one until sometime in early June.

Person is not considered fully vaccinated until a couple of weeks after they have had their second shot.
So, my point is that it's not a level playing field, lets check back in June and see how both countries are looking at that stage.

That's true for the Pfizer vaccine.

Tyrone212

Danno wrote: »

Sorry champ, but anyone suggesting that the 12-week spread between dose 1 and dose 2 of the AZ vaccine is strictly a "Tory" policy when it has been demonstrated that the policy is anything but - alludes that their gripe is with the political leaning of said party other than anything else. Try again.

He didn't mention the Oxford vaccine though. And what he says is true regarding the Pfizer vaccine. Which I assume is what he was talking about.

"The scientist behind the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine says that the time between the first and second dose should not be longer than six weeks.

BioNTech chief executive Professor Ugur Sahin was responding to the UK's decision to delay the second dose by up to 12 weeks to allow more people to get a first dose quickly

Asked if that was wrong, he told Sky News: "As a scientist, I wouldn't mind if the second dose of the vaccine is given three weeks, four weeks, maybe five weeks, even up to six weeks might still be okay.

"But I wouldn't delay that further. As a scientist I believe that it is not good to go longer than six weeks."

Cosmo Kramer

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Daft comment. The countries that closed borders dealt more effectively with covid. Stop getting triggered by imagined xenophobia. Nothing got to do with it.

No, the countries that actually could close borders effectively dealt with it better - Ireland was never in a position to do this regardless of how many restrictions were put in place at airports.

In Ireland, given the open economy and geographical location, Covid could only ever be managed through the behaviour of its residents internally. Quarantining a handful of international travellers, the majority of whom had genuine reasons for travel, only ever served to make overseas travellers a scapegoat and was used by the opposition as a political tool. It was never going to be a useful measure to prevent Covid. Even less so now that Ireland is falling so far behind with vaccines, overseas travellers should be the least of people's concerns right now.

GT89

Apologies wrong thread

acequion

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

No, the countries that actually could close borders effectively dealt with it better - Ireland was never in a position to do this regardless of how many restrictions were put in place at airports.

In Ireland, given the open economy and geographical location, Covid could only ever be managed through the behaviour of its residents internally. Quarantining a handful of international travellers, the majority of whom had genuine reasons for travel, only ever served to make overseas travellers a scapegoat and was used by the opposition as a political tool. It was never going to be a useful measure to prevent Covid. Even less so now that Ireland is falling so far behind with vaccines, overseas travellers should be the least of people's concerns right now.

Probably the most sensible post I've read on this whole issue. It doesn't suit the narrative though.:rolleyes:

Red Silurian

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How will quarantine from certain countries work? Most countries on the list doesn't have direct flights to Ireland. So if they take a flight to London or Paris, shouldn't the quarantine be happening there before any further travel onto Ireland?

The way it works in the UK is anybody who was in a red listed country in the 14 days prior to arrival... It's a bit crazy if we introduce it here because say for example if you fly from Brazil to Cork via Paris you would get escorted to a hotel from cork airport but the person you were sitting beside on the plane for the last 90 minutes walks into the community after probably contracting the virus from you on the plane

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

I don't know and we are on their absolute red list due to the UK variant being so prevalent here.

We are not the only ones on their red list by a long shot - as of January 21st this year

Entry of foreign nationals who were physically present within the following list of countries within 14 days prior to their entry or attempted entry into the United States is suspended, per Presidential Proclamations 9984, 9992, and the Proclamation of January 25, 2021: Brazil; The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, excluding overseas territories outside of Europe; The Republic of Ireland; South Africa; The 26 countries that comprise the Schengen Area; The Islamic Republic of Iran; The People’s Republic of China.

ShineOn7

Mandatory hotel quarantine system could be running in a week

Contract with hotel provider likely to be agreed by mid-week

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-system-could-be-running-in-a-week-1.4503816

saabsaab

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Daft comment. The countries that closed borders dealt more effectively with covid. Stop getting triggered by imagined xenophobia. Nothing got to do with it.

Dead right. Two words to answer those that say international travel isn't the problem. UK Variant.

ShineOn7

ShineOn7 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-system-could-be-running-in-a-week-1.4503816

Any Irish resident or citizen that gets stuck in a hotel quarantine situation is an idiot. Just transfer through another EU country and do self isolation in an Airbnb. Achieves the same objective, from an Irish perspective, but is probably cheaper and definitely more fun

caveat emptor

Finland doing a great job controlling the border. They've pushed back against the EU saying they should open again.

It seems citizen's right to life trumps freedom of movement in a pandemic. I'd tend to agree but I know others don't.

Loads of countries are ignoring the EU on this.

Restrictions imposed by Finland’s government on the freedom of movement of European Union citizens’ when entering the country are necessary to halt the further spread of the Coronavirus outbreak as well as its new variants.

These comments of Finland’s Ministry of Interior, together with other key ministries, have been addressed to the European Commission as a response to the latter’s addressed letter to the Finnish authorities, urging Finland to terminate its imposed entry and movement restrictions, SchengenVisaInfo.com reports.

“Restrictions on movement, which are considered necessary, are intended to safeguard public health and, in particular, the right to life of everyone,” the statement of Finland’s government reads.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/finland-tells-eu-commission-that-entry-restrictions-are-necessary-to-halt-covid-19-spread/

Happydays2020

caveat emptor wrote: »

Finland doing a great job controlling the border. They've pushed back against the EU saying they should open again.

It seems citizen's right to life trumps freedom of movement in a pandemic. I'd tend to agree but I know others don't.

Loads of countries are ignoring the EU on this.



https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/finland-tells-eu-commission-that-entry-restrictions-are-necessary-to-halt-covid-19-spread/

Well when lives are safer (and they will be in May when most vulnerable are fully vaccinated) then we have to think again about the right to a livelihood and personal freedoms. If we don’t, and other are opening up then I would fear major economic consequences.

faceman

caveat emptor wrote: »

Finland doing a great job controlling the border. They've pushed back against the EU saying they should open again.

It seems citizen's right to life trumps freedom of movement in a pandemic. I'd tend to agree but I know others don't.

Loads of countries are ignoring the EU on this.



https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/finland-tells-eu-commission-that-entry-restrictions-are-necessary-to-halt-covid-19-spread/

LOL

Finland declared a state of emergency last week. Doing a great job eh?

Btw, Finland could to end up being a category 2 country for Ireland. They have a new variant undetectable by PCR. It’s not in the Irish news yet.

NeuralNetwork

Just beware that the likes of Ireland and Finland are far, far less dependent on mass tourism than places like Spain, Portugal, Greece, and even big Central European countries like France.

We can potentially divert millions of international trips which would have gone to those destinations into domestic holidays.

The downside of that is you’re going to see a major asymmetric economic impact, where wealthy, less tourist dependent northern countries are much more immune to the consequences of keeping borders closed, while tourism based economies are going to be lobbying hard to open them quickly.

That’s where you’ll see EU tensions over this at some point this summer.

There will be huge pressure put on Brussels to accelerate opening.

Ireland’s tourism sector is significant but compared to a lot of places we are in a rather insulated position and so are many Northern European countries where the balance of tourism trade is we we travel abroad more than we depend on inbound trade.

To a degree we are more insulated than many as we aren’t even in Schengen and can’t be rushed on this.

But in general Schengen rules are totally overridden by health and national security prerogatives. So you’re not going to see this rushed, even if there are demands.

I would predict a big economic crunch in Southern Europe as European summer holidays don’t happen in the usual way both because of a reluctance to travel and restrictions.

You’re also going to see very little travel from the USA or Asia into European destinations this year.

I would suspect you’re really looking at tourism beginning to recover maybe in time for ski season in 2021 and then steadily in 2022 with full recovery in 2023 and I don’t think that reality has really sunk in yet.

Even when the vaccines are rolled out, you’ll probably see a large drop off in travel for anything up to several years until confidence returns.

There’s a lot of myopic “only in Ireland” views on these forums, but the vaccine situation across Europe, except for the U.K. is the same as here or slower. So unless something changes very dramatically we’ve likely missed summer 2021.

Even with mass vaccination, long haul tourism is likely gone this year entirely - that’s a hell of a lot of money in cities across the the continent like American and Asian trips to Paris or Rome etc as well as a huge chunk of our normal market here.

I think realistically we are looking at completing European vaccine rollout in probably September or so and by international comparisons that’s actually rather fast. The U.K., US and Israel etc being very much the exceptions on speed.

I wonder though what travel will look like in the months and years ahead.

I could predict a fairly serious political reaction to this as things begin to be processed and a reluctance to remove restrictions on longer haul stuff for a long time. The level of economic impact and social impact of what’s happened since the pandemic broke out are absolutely enormous.

I could see screening and vaccine certificates being a big part of travel for years ahead.

faceman

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Just beware that the likes of Ireland and Finland are far, far less dependent on mass tourism than places like Spain, Portugal, Greece, and even big Central European countries like France.

We can potentially divert millions of international trips which would have gone to those destinations into domestic holidays.

The downside of that is you’re going to see a major asymmetric economic impact, where wealthy, less tourist dependent northern countries are much more immune to the consequences of keeping borders closed, while tourism based economies are going to be lobbying hard to open them quickly.

That’s where you’ll see EU tensions over this at some point this summer.

There will be huge pressure put on Brussels to accelerate opening.

Ireland’s tourism sector is significant but compared to a lot of places we are in a rather insulated position and so are many Northern European countries where the balance of tourism trade is we we travel abroad more than we depend on inbound trade.

To a degree we are more insulated than many as we aren’t even in Schengen and can’t be rushed on this.

But in general Schengen rules are totally overridden by health and national security prerogatives. So you’re not going to see this rushed, even if there are demands.

I would predict a big economic crunch in Southern Europe as European summer holidays don’t happen in the usual way both because of a reluctance to travel and restrictions.

You’re also going to see very little travel from the USA or Asia into European destinations this year.

I would suspect you’re really looking at tourism beginning to recover maybe in time for ski season in 2021 and then steadily in 2022 with full recovery in 2023 and I don’t think that reality has really sunk in yet.

Even when the vaccines are rolled out, you’ll probably see a large drop off in travel for anything up to several years until confidence returns.

There’s a lot of myopic “only in Ireland” views on these forums, but the vaccine situation across Europe, except for the U.K. is the same as here or slower. So unless something changes very dramatically we’ve likely missed summer 2021.

Even with mass vaccination, long haul tourism is likely gone this year entirely - that’s a hell of a lot of money in cities across the the continent like American and Asian trips to Paris or Rome etc as well as a huge chunk of our normal market here.

I think realistically we are looking at completing European vaccine rollout in probably September or so and by international comparisons that’s actually rather fast. The U.K., US and Israel etc being very much the exceptions on speed.

I wonder though what travel will look like in the months and years ahead.

I could predict a fairly serious political reaction to this as things begin to be processed and a reluctance to remove restrictions on longer haul stuff for a long time. The level of economic impact and social impact of what’s happened since the pandemic broke out are absolutely enormous.

I could see screening and vaccine certificates being a big part of travel for years ahead.

International tourism contributes over €6bn to the Irish economy with over 325,000 people employed the in the sector. I wouldn’t underestimate the importance of the sector for Ireland.

Macron has said this week that even though he’s hesitant to commit to a vaccine passport he’s confident will have a plan for intro EU tourism this summer

NeuralNetwork

faceman wrote: »

International tourism contributes over €6bn to the Irish economy with over 325,000 people employed the in the sector. I wouldn’t underestimate the importance of the sector for Ireland.

Macron has said this week that even though he’s hesitant to commit to a vaccine passport he’s confident will have a plan for intro EU tourism this summer

International tourism out of Ireland also contributes a similar or larger amount where it is focused, so unlike say Spain, we have an ability to redirect that spend domestically. So do places like Finland and so on.

Also we simply aren’t going to get tourism from North America or Asia this year at all. I think that boat is missed at this stage and I think you’re looking at it taking a longer time for transatlantic and far flung tourism to return.

At best we might see some European tourism this year and we need to focus on trying to capture some of the domestic spending power back into the Irish economy if international tourism’s slow.

We need to be planning for this as we aren’t just going to see a return to normality overnight. You’re talking at least a year and probably longer.

There’s a need to be realistic too. There won’t be an international market to welcome for quite some time and that’s not really something that’s entirely in our control and will depend on what’s happening elsewhere and on sentiment about travel safety.

Level 42

faceman wrote: »

LOL

Finland declared a state of emergency last week. Doing a great job eh?

Btw, Finland could to end up being a category 2 country for Ireland. They have a new variant undetectable by PCR. It’s not in the Irish news yet.

nice wan

faceman

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

International tourism out of Ireland also contributes a similar or larger amount where it is focused, so unlike say Spain, we have an ability to redirect that spend domestically. So do places like Finland and so on.

Also we simply aren’t going to get tourism from North America or Asia this year at all. I think that boat is missed at this stage and I think you’re looking at it taking a longer time for transatlantic and far flung tourism to return.

At best we might see some European tourism this year and we need to focus on trying to capture some of the domestic spending power back into the Irish economy if international tourism’s slow.

Tourism will return quite quickly once vaccines are complete and borders reopen

Irish domestic tourism was tainted after last summer’s shenanigans. I suspect zero innovation this year from the powers that be.

NeuralNetwork

It remains to be seen. I would predict a very paranoid attitude to “overseas” from the USA perspective for quite some time and the Asian perception of Europe and the USA is that it’s far too risky to go to.

You’ll also have lot of people who won’t see the prospect of being screened and of that hassle as worth their while.

Ireland’s tourism product, without the bustling towns, cities and world famous bar culture is just a bunch of hillwalking too. So until you get a normal atmosphere back, it’s just never going to be great.

That’s not going to come back instantly.

You’ll probably see more of a return of intra-European travel first.

You’ll also be looking at possible economic fallout and lack of either spending power or willingness to spend for a while.

You’ve already got Paschal and other likeminded European politicians talking about what would be totally inappropriate tax hikes & spending cuts into what could be a very steep recession that needs stimulus measures. There are a lot of book balancing economic policies in places like Germany, NL, Finland etc too that will resist any sort of stimulus spending.

The expectation of a tourism boom in the short term seems totally unrealistic.

ShineOn7

State to indemnify quarantine hotels from Covid-19 related legal action

Hotels to be covered in cases where people catch virus on the premises

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-to-indemnify-quarantine-hotels-from-covid-19-related-legal-action-1.4505375

is_that_so

faceman wrote: »

LOL

Finland declared a state of emergency last week. Doing a great job eh?

Btw, Finland could to end up being a category 2 country for Ireland. They have a new variant undetectable by PCR. It’s not in the Irish news yet.

If it's undetectable how was it detected or identified? BTW there are north of 600K variants or viral genomes.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

LOL

Finland declared a state of emergency last week. Doing a great job eh?

Btw, Finland could to end up being a category 2 country for Ireland. They have a new variant undetectable by PCR. It’s not in the Irish news yet.

So do you want to send us evidence of where it is in the news?

faceman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So do you want to send us evidence of where it is in the news?

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-02-18/New-coronavirus-variant-discovered-in-Finland-XZ5zGo8BLa/index.html

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/news-in-brief/18735-new-covid-variant-found-in-finland-may-not-show-up-in-tests.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/finnish-strain-coronavirus-b920347.html

faceman

faceman wrote: »

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-02-18/New-coronavirus-variant-discovered-in-Finland-XZ5zGo8BLa/index.html

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/news-in-brief/18735-new-covid-variant-found-in-finland-may-not-show-up-in-tests.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/finnish-strain-coronavirus-b920347.html

yeh, its not in the international press because its not a major concern. Seems iike you are really reaching for some scary stories here