#SpeakOut - Sexual Assault Allegations Superthread

LineOfBeauty

weareallmarks wrote: »

If legal action is coming a lawyer will tell their client to stfu while they investigate.
That is normal.
If he is guilty, then he should be locked up and key thrown away. He has put his case forward for his innocence. Now the accusers can refute that and sue him

He is putting his case forward in the same arena that cancelled him.

Which he can do but this is a guy who right away tried the intimidation, public lawyering up tactic, clearly that's gotten nowhere and now he's gone public.

Again, I've yet to hear a feasible motive why so many women would accuse this man of rape if it weren't true. He is the extreme example of a culture that is horrible and out of control. What company would possibly book this ever again, let alone what normal person would give this guy the time of day let alone 58 minutes of self-preserving crap.

Lord TSC

weareallmarks wrote: »

You are not qualified to make comments on peoples mental health.

This is the issue with wrestling fans. You know nothing about the fella. I met him, he was a bell end. But I dont doubt his mental illness. Triggered by rotten behaviour doesnt mean its attention seeking or BS.

You are the issue with wrestling fans......Alot of them on here.

Mod Note:
While I think there's a valid point in your stance, please cut out the attacks on posters. "You are the issue with wrestling fans" goes beyond the discussion at hand and is delving into personal abuse.

Keep the attitude of "Discuss the posts, not the posters" please.

weareallmarks

You and others are talking like doctors/psychologists diagnosing a patient. Do you also have opinions on the doctor who would perform surgery?

'Myself, and at least 8 people on here who feel he is not being genuine. That's fine too'

No it isnt. You and your 8 friends are not in a position to diagnose people.

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

:pac: Love the way you quoted me yet there was this with 7 thanks:



See "this is the issue with wrestling fans" you are talking about - that's called having an opinion. You believe he is genuine. That's fine. Myself, and at least 8 people on here who feel he is not being genuine. That's fine too.

Agree or disagree you have that right. But so do others.

weareallmarks

Dont get me wrong, I hate the fella. I dont think that many accusations happen without reason.

BUT, my point was he would be told to stfu while a lawyer investigates. The women involved should sue tho bollix off him!

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Which he can do but this is a guy who right away tried the intimidation, public lawyering up tactic, clearly that's gotten nowhere and now he's gone public.

Again, I've yet to hear a feasible motive why so many women would accuse this man of rape if it weren't true. He is the extreme example of a culture that is horrible and out of control. What company would possibly book this ever again, let alone what normal person would give this guy the time of day let alone 58 minutes of self-preserving crap.

weareallmarks

I hear ya mod, but the posters are making the posts about themselves by stating diagnoses of wrestlers depression......

Lord TSC wrote: »

Mod Note:
While I think there's a valid point in your stance, please cut out the attacks on posters. "You are the issue with wrestling fans" goes beyond the discussion at hand and is delving into personal abuse.

Keep the attitude of "Discuss the posts, not the posters" please.

beakerjoe

weareallmarks wrote: »

I hear ya mod, but the posters are making the posts about themselves by stating diagnoses of wrestlers depression......

Alleged depression.

Lithium93_

beakerjoe wrote: »

Alleged depression.

Conveniently timed, if Ospreay's depression is indeed because of the whole speak out, then where was his conscience and moral compass when his mate did what he did, why didn't he report his mate at the time? Why is it only manifesting now?



There's no doubt that Will's a fantastic wrestler, but there's questions to be put to him for what he knew, and why he didn't originally report it.

ShagNastii

I have never really commented on any #metoo or #speakout cause I feel it is a bit of a minefield unless you are fully rowing in behind the crowd.

Hypothetically if it was all consensual as Joey Ryan states he is still game to be written off? I'm tiptoeing when I ask but are "groupies" the big elephant in the room in an awful lot of this stuff?

I'd imagine if Ed Sheeran was on a world tour he could genuinely find a woman that wanted to sleep with him every night. If I did this every night for two hundred nights does this make his a scumbag or target for #metoo?

Trump got crucified for the "grab them by the p*ssy". But no one mentions the "They let you" that he followed it up with. Like my example,he has most certainly had females throwing themselves at him his whole life. For every time this happens should the recipient be expected to do nothing more than doff the cap and be apologetic every time.

B.A._Baracus

weareallmarks wrote: »

You and others are talking like doctors/psychologists diagnosing a patient. Do you also have opinions on the doctor who would perform surgery?

'Myself, and at least 8 people on here who feel he is not being genuine. That's fine too'

No it isnt. You and your 8 friends are not in a position to diagnose people.

And you are in no position to confirm this is genuine too. But you fail to acknowledge that.
You are quick enough to call myself and others out for not being psychologists but neither are you.

Again you have an opinion that he is genuine. That is fine. It's also fine that others don't believe him. You have to accept that. You've already said your point that you feel he is genuine. Fine. Cool. I, and others, have stated how we don't believe him. Fine. Cool.

You can either accept that or be a broken record.

beakerjoe

Listen, are we in a position to state whether someone has a legit illness? No, if course not.

Are we free to speculate if its true or not by weighing up the situation. Yeah, we are.

He is in rhe public eye, and he appears to have bad some bad decisions and he is thus prone to scrutiny.

I can easily say that his depression could very well be real and he very well may be going through a tough time himself.

However do I believe it? No, I dont.

Whatever happens I hope hes ok and that he at least learns lessons from his bad choices

ShagNastii

It’s easy to be cynical towards the timing of Ospreay dropping the depression card, but he has talked about it countless times in the last few years.

sky88

Ospreay Depression maybe real but he also brought it on himself trying to ruin someone’s career too many times I think people are using mental health to cover for them being a**holes

The White Wolf

sky88 wrote: »

Ospreay Depression maybe real but he also brought it on himself trying to ruin someone’s career too many times I think people are using mental health to cover for them being a**holes

I would wager most people on here would know someone who does similar, I mean I can hold my hands up and admit I've done it myself.

It really is simple - there is no excuse, be it mental health or substance abuse, for making someone else's life a living hell.

sky88

The White Wolf wrote: »

I would wager most people on here would know someone who does similar, I mean I can hold my hands up and admit I've done it myself.

It really is simple - there is no excuse, be it mental health or substance abuse, for making someone else's life a living hell.

For sure but I think if you held your hands up and say I did Wrong instead of what I think this was a cynical deflection move

ShagNastii

sky88 wrote: »

Ospreay Depression maybe real but he also brought it on himself trying to ruin someone’s career too many times.

That’s extremely petty. Hypothetically speaking if something totally abhorrent came from said depression would you still fly the “well he brought it on himself” flag.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Agent Coulson

Maybe his depression lead him to make the wrong choices in the first place to try and make himself feel better about himself.

How many here will speak about their own issues with depression before casting the first stone at someone else to make themselves feel righteous.

The White Wolf

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Maybe his depression lead him to make the wrong choices in the first place to try and make himself feel better about himself.

How many here will speak about their own issues with depression before casting the first stone at someone else to make themselves feel righteous.

Well as I said I've been in the position myself, and would say I've had to own the wrong choices I made while struggling.

It's not an easy thing to do at all so god speed to Ospreay. I wish him no ill will. Sh1t happens and all we can do is try to absorb them and become better for it.

beakerjoe

ShagNastii wrote: »

That’s extremely petty. Hypothetically speaking if something totally abhorrent came from said depression would you still fly the “well he brought it on himself” flag.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

The whole issue hopefully will be a lesson for him and others. Hes capable of seeing the errors in his actions. At the end of the day he was in the wrong, but it doesnt mean his life should be hell either. If he wants to change and do right, he deserves forgiveness.

beakerjoe

The White Wolf wrote: »

Well as I said I've been in the position myself, and would say I've had to own the wrong choices I made while struggling.

It's not an easy thing to do at all so god speed to Ospreay. I wish him no ill will. Sh1t happens and all we can do is try to absorb them and become better for it.

Welp all make bad choices, no one is perfect. Id be happy to watch him perform again. People who try to be better derseve redemption.

LineOfBeauty

Love Ospreay the wrestler, for my money he's been the best bell to bell wrestler of the last 2 years.

But that fandom absolutely blinds people when talking about this. He's been caught red handed, the lies he tried to get away with about blackballing Pollyana were laid bare in public and his mental health defence is pathetic. No matter how great a wrestler he is, there's no free pass on this one and anyone who is a fan of his has to accept what that comes attached with, which is that this man ruined a woman's career for being raped by one of his mates. That's the black and white of it.

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Love Ospreay the wrestler, for my money he's been the best bell to bell wrestler of the last 2 years.

But that fandom absolutely blinds people when talking about this. He's been caught red handed, the lies he tried to get away with about blackballing Pollyana were laid bare in public and his mental health defence is pathetic. No matter how great a wrestler he is, there's no free pass on this one and anyone who is a fan of his has to accept what that comes attached with, which is that this man ruined a woman's career for being raped by one of his mates. That's the black and white of it.

It doesnt matter if hes a public figure or not, people who want to change deserve a chance to change. If hes willing to try change I'll support that. I dont think he should be blackballed if he genuinely shows remorse and tries to make amends.

But based off the anecdotal evidence, I think the despression, whether its real ir not, is a deflection.

So right now I wont be supporting him.

The White Wolf

To be fair to him, based on his Twitterisms it looked like he had matured over the last year big time. It must hurt to make such headway in your life only for the past to catch up on you. Anyone in a similar situation would be gutted beyond belief, but unfortunately one must still hold their hands up if caught.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

It doesnt matter if hes a public figure or not, people who want to change deserve a chance to change. If hes willing to try change I'll support that. I dont think he should be blackballed if he genuinely shows remorse and tries to make amends.

But based off the anecdotal evidence, I think the despression, whether its real ir not, is a deflection.

So right now I wont be supporting him.

White Wolf referenced it and to be fair to Ospreay he has matured and more power to him for that. Though I don't think that gets anybody a free pass given how horrible his actions back then were.

weareallmarks

Have you treated him? Are you qualified to make any kind of diagnosis on someone you have never treated.

I understand that this is the internet and people can hide behind avatars etc, but your comments show who you really are.
Alleged depression, you know literally zero about anyones state of mind.

Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020

beakerjoe wrote: »

Alleged depression.

weareallmarks

Mate research mental illness, hopefully you will never be affected by it yourself. I have been and continue to be. The signs are there, the recognizable signs. Of course I am not a doctor, but I have been treated by one.

Very few on this board have. But you and other choose to not believe someone who has a public history of it. I am coming off like an osprey defender when i dont like the fella. But some of the comments on here about mental illness has been scummy.

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

And you are in no position to confirm this is genuine too. But you fail to acknowledge that.
You are quick enough to call myself and others out for not being psychologists but neither are you.

Again you have an opinion that he is genuine. That is fine. It's also fine that others don't believe him. You have to accept that. You've already said your point that you feel he is genuine. Fine. Cool. I, and others, have stated how we don't believe him. Fine. Cool.

You can either accept that or be a broken record.

B.A._Baracus

weareallmarks wrote: »

Mate research mental illness, hopefully you will never be affected by it yourself. I have been and continue to be. The signs are there, the recognizable signs. Of course I am not a doctor, but I have been treated by one.

Very few on this board have. But you and other choose to not believe someone who has a public history of it. I am coming off like an osprey defender when i dont like the fella. But some of the comments on here about mental illness has been scummy.

and around and round we go ...



You cannot accept the fact me and others just dont believe him. My posts thus far have been about "hey it's ok if you believe him, its ok if we dont" but you cannot accept that. You simply will not tolerate anyone having an opinion that differs from your own on this matter.

Could it be that your own issues are making you biased on this one? As you feel not believing Osprey is a personal attack towards you? ... it's not mate.

The White Wolf

weareallmarks wrote: »

Mate research mental illness, hopefully you will never be affected by it yourself. I have been and continue to be. The signs are there, the recognizable signs. Of course I am not a doctor, but I have been treated by one.

Very few on this board have. But you and other choose to not believe someone who has a public history of it. I am coming off like an osprey defender when i dont like the fella. But some of the comments on here about mental illness has been scummy.

What on earth are you on about? I can't begin to tell you how ludicrous it is that you can say in such certain terms that no one on this board knows about mental illness and depression.

I can only imagine you would say something so stupid because you want to wind someone up enough to provoke a reaction.

Omackeral

weareallmarks wrote: »

Have you treated him? Are you qualified to make any kind of diagnosis on someone you have never treated.

I understand that this is the internet and people can hide behind avatars etc, but your comments show who you really are.
Alleged depression, you know literally zero about anyones state of mind.

Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020

Having been around the forum a good while, and having met him in real life, I can safely say that Joe is one of the good guys. To be pedantic, it is perfectly fine to describe it as alleged depression because none of us here know the ins and outs of a stranger's medical certificates.

Needless personal jibes from you here IMO, somewhat ironically.

beakerjoe

weareallmarks wrote: »

Have you treated him? Are you qualified to make any kind of diagnosis on someone you have never treated.

I understand that this is the internet and people can hide behind avatars etc, but your comments show who you really are.
Alleged depression, you know literally zero about anyones state of mind.

Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020

It still alleged despression. Have you documentary evidence to suggest hes been diagnosed?

beakerjoe

weareallmarks wrote: »

Have you treated him? Are you qualified to make any kind of diagnosis on someone you have never treated.

I understand that this is the internet and people can hide behind avatars etc, but your comments show who you really are.
Alleged depression, you know literally zero about anyones state of mind.

Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020

And to add you also have no idea as to anyones state of mind. Its all hear say

Insect Overlord

It's fascinating to watch how the world is embracing #Ibelieveher but yet people have no problem not believing a man's story.

beakerjoe

Insect Overlord wrote: »

It's fascinating to watch how the world is embracing #Ibelieveher but yet people have no problem not believing a man's story.

I personally judge each case on its own merits. Ospreay has done himself no favours.

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Mod Note:
While I think there's a valid point in your stance, please cut out the attacks on posters. "You are the issue with wrestling fans" goes beyond the discussion at hand and is delving into personal abuse.

Keep the attitude of "Discuss the posts, not the posters" please.

weareallmarks wrote: »

Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020

weareallmarks wrote: »

But some of the comments on here about mental illness has been scummy.

Second Mod Note:
I asked you to cut out the personal side of things, going after posters rather than the posts.

Do not post in this thread again.

beakerjoe

Just to clarify, mental illness is a horrible thing, my mam suffers badly since I was born and I wouldnt wish anything on anyone, including anyone is a position like some of the metop accused.

Will Ospreay may have depression, and the accusations leveled at him may well have contributed to it. No doubt.

My own read is that whether its true or not, its being used as a deflection from the allegations made against him.

As I said before, we most likely dont have all the facts, but based off the information before me he doesnt come off well at all.

And also as I have said before, he deserves a chance to redeem himself. He without sin may cast the first stone and I can say most people on here are most likely have made big mistakes that they regret in their life. We learn from them and we can become better as a result. If hes willing to change, he deserves the opportunity.

weareallmarks

Exactly, bar your second paragraph. Your own read on someone you've never met, someone you've only seen do flips in spandex.

beakerjoe wrote: »

Just to clarify, mental illness is a horrible thing, my mam suffers badly since I was born and I wouldnt wish anything on anyone, including anyone is a position like some of the metop accused.

Will Ospreay may have depression, and the accusations leveled at him may well have contributed to it. No doubt.

My own read is that whether its true or not, its being used as a deflection from the allegations made against him.

As I said before, we most likely dont have all the facts, but based off the information before me he doesnt come off well at all.

And also as I have said before, he deserves a chance to redeem himself. He without sin may cast the first stone and I can say most people on here are most likely have made big mistakes that they regret in their life. We learn from them and we can become better as a result. If hes willing to change, he deserves the opportunity.

beakerjoe

weareallmarks wrote: »

Exactly, bar your second paragraph. Your own read on someone you've never met, someone you've only seen do flips in spandex.

I have the same information to read and speculate on someone that you do.

You believe someone is being honest, true and up front when you have never had a personal relationship with him. We have the same right to speculate.

LineOfBeauty

Dream back on National TV, Joey Ryan and Wolfgang back tweeting and trying to worm their way back in. All examples of how pro wrestling simply can't police itself.

J. Marston

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Dream back on National TV, Joey Ryan and Wolfgang back tweeting and trying to worm their way back in. All examples of how pro wrestling simply can't police itself.

Dream is one thing but I don't think the other two reappearing on Twitter is an indictment on wrestling. You can't stop them posting on social media.

The White Wolf

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Dream back on National TV, Joey Ryan and Wolfgang back tweeting and trying to worm their way back in. All examples of how pro wrestling simply can't police itself.

No one is being brought to court so it really is a company's prerogative whether they use someone or not. I'm not a fan of seeing him back on my TV mainly because messaging young fans is a bit too much for me and I'd be generally an open minded, case by case, kind of person.

B.A._Baracus

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Dream back on National TV, Joey Ryan and Wolfgang back tweeting and trying to worm their way back in. All examples of how pro wrestling simply can't police itself.

Not being smart but how could the industry police itself?

jaykhunter

Agreed, that's like saying "let's police Anime"! it's a couple of separate companies with independent contractors (no unions) with only maybe a thousand jobs going at any one time, there's no standards and practices - it's the wild west. Wrestling is still too niche to be policed (sadly - it desperately needs it)

Omackeral

jaykhunter wrote: »

Wrestling is still too niche to be policed (sadly - it desperately needs it)

If only we could get some fella to call out scummy practices and to try get a union going.



There was one? Recently? Wrestled here in Ireland? He did what?!

montyrebel

will those with accusations against them that are int he companies now being shown on the network alongside wwe programming be edited out? eg wolfgang in icw

Lithium93_

Pro wrestling policing itself, it's a fine idea in theory, but in it's execution, not so especially in a business known for it's politicking and backstabbing.

Agent Coulson

Marty Scurll could be done at ROH as well Delirious is now head of creative while Scrull is on hiatus while there is a human resources investigation on the claims made about him.

Agent Coulson

HHH said they investigated the accusations about Dream and cleared him and the reasons he was off TV was due to the car crash.


HHH actually Trumped it with the phrase "It is what it is" and there is nothing to the accusations.

Now some of those you accused him have said the WWE never contacted them regarding the accusations.

Also reading reports that other talent in the WWE aren't happy that Dream seems to have gotten away with this when others have and would be fired for less.

beakerjoe

Should WWE be reaching out to to those making allegations?

Im not saying Dream is innocent but I imagine they are confident theres no real evidence just yet to fire Dream.

Im sure if there was hard evidnece or an admission if guilt they would fire him immediately.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

Should WWE be reaching out to to those making allegations?

Im not saying Dream is innocent but I imagine they are confident theres no real evidence just yet to fire Dream.

Im sure if there was hard evidnece or an admission if guilt they would fire him immediately.

What kind of investigation doesn't even attempt to get one whole side of the story? An investigation set up to find out nothing. He slid, Devlin will slide, Riddle slid. All guys with value to the company. Make no mistake, if they valued Travis Banks or even Jack Gallagher they'd still be there too.

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

What kind of investigation doesn't even attempt to get one whole side of the story? An investigation set up to find out nothing. He slid, Devlin will slide, Riddle slid. All guys with value to the company. Make no mistake, if they valued Travis Banks or even Jack Gallagher they'd still be there too.

A company wont get rid of an asset until they have to.

Fact is they need evidence to dismiss an employee.

Should they be the ones contacting those who make allegations? No they shouldn't. The police should.

If hes charged they will dismiss him, or unless they have documentary evidence or an admission if guilt from the accused.

sky88

do the bigger companies like wwe,aew roh not open themselves to being sued for unfair dismissal if they let the accused go and these allegations cant be proven