#SpeakOut - Sexual Assault Allegations Superthread

Agent Coulson

Fair play to AEW for not brushing it under the carpet and making it disappear because Sammy is an internet darling.

Jimmy Havoc is in treatment and getting counselling and, upon completion, his future status within the company will be re-evaluate as well.

undertaker fan 88

undertaker fan 88 wrote: »

Good call by aew

How can they reconcile that with using Mike Tyson?

It's all pandering bull****.

Agent Coulson

Deleted User wrote: »

How can they reconcile that with using Mike Tyson?

It's all pandering bull****.

They can say Tyson was convicted and served his time for his crime and hasn't been in trouble since so he was rehabilitated and that is what we hope and expect from the justice system.


Just like every other organisation and TV show that has used Tyson or had him on as a guest since then from the WWE to The Ellen show to Law and Order SVU to The Hangover movies.

Lithium93_

I've seen the comments under Sammy's statement, and the Sasha one that TSC linked, and the AEW one I posted, it appears some people just can't be pleased.

It's times like these that those like Sammy and Sasha, and everyone in professional wrestling respectively could use their platforms and call for calm and backing off on both sides of the divide, think way bigger picture and not go overboard with comments.

B.A._Baracus

Lithium93_ wrote: »

AEW statement on Sammy Guevara

AEW insists on doing our part to create a world of understanding and respect for humankind. We therefore strongly condemn the extremely offensive and hurtful words of Sammy Guevara. As such, effective immediately, Sammy is suspended without pay until further notice. Sammy has agreed to undergo extensive sensitivity training and, upon completion, his future status within the company will be re-evaluated.

During his suspension, his salary will be donated to the Women’s Center of Jacksonville.

I'm surprised AEW said or did anything.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

They can say Tyson was convicted and served his time for his crime and hasn't been in trouble since so he was rehabilitated and that is what we hope and expect from the justice system.


Just like every other organisation and TV show that has used Tyson or had him on as a guest since then from the WWE to The Ellen show to Law and Order SVU to The Hangover movies.

That's shaky consistency at best.

A comment about rape (as horrible as it was) made years ago is grounds for suspension.

Actually raping someone years ago isn't a stumbling block with regards your job prospects in aew though.

If you can't see that these are at odds with each other and sending out a very mixed message, I don't know what to say to you.

Itssoeasy

Well add brock lesnar to the list of wrestlers accused of harassment . He's been accused by Terri runnels.

Agent Coulson

It will be interesting to see if any UFC/MMA competitors start to get named

cian68

I was worried at the start of all this that a lot of guys would worm their way back in as always. Safe to say Joey Ryan is finished. Hopefully plenty of others.

Itssoeasy

cian68 wrote: »

I was worried at the start of all this that a lot of guys would worm their way back in as always. Safe to say Joey Ryan is finished. Hopefully plenty of others.

And I personally won’t be sad if joey Ryan never darkens wrestling ever again. As its funny how his fans got upset when people said his dick spot was stupid and yet it seems in the ring wasn’t the only place he used that spot. It now seems he’s a ****ty human being as well as being the drizzling ****s in the ring.

B.A._Baracus

Itssoeasy wrote: »

And I personally won’t be sad if joey Ryan never darkens wrestling ever again. As its funny how his fans got upset when people said his dick spot was stupid and yet it seems in the ring wasn’t the only place he used that spot. It now seems he’s a ****ty human being as well as being the drizzling ****s in the ring.

Seems he closed his promotion 'bar wrestling' too.

http://socaluncensored.com/2020/06/21/joey-ryan-issues-statement-on-allegations-bar-wrestling-closes-down/

Guess that really is the end of him. He could have quietly stepped back while still running it. But it's gone. Looks like he is packing his bags.

Pentecost

I find it fairly hard to believe Candice wasn't aware of any of his behaviour given how he seems to have been doing it all very openly in places they were both at. She always came across as a decent person so maybe I'm doing her a disservice.

SketchyPrince

The Twitter wrestling fans are the worst people for this cancel culture I have ever seen.
Straight up on their high-horses to be horrified by the actions of someone.
Same people replying "Thank you" to OTT for removing certain wrestlers as if their own lives were in danger by having David Starr in the ring, f*ck me.

Obviously I don't condone anything done by David Starr and Co.

LineOfBeauty

SketchyPrince wrote: »

The Twitter wrestling fans are the worst people for this cancel culture I have ever seen.
Straight up on their high-horses to be horrified by the actions of someone.
Same people replying "Thank you" to OTT for removing certain wrestlers as if their own lives were in danger by having David Starr in the ring, f*ck me.

Obviously I don't condone anything done by David Starr and Co.

Obviously....

SketchyPrince

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Obviously....

Where are you going with your reply?

daithi1989

SketchyPrince wrote: »

Where are you going with your reply?

The same way he was going with others he’s replied too.. Think there was a Mod Post earlier about it!

cian68

SketchyPrince wrote: »

The Twitter wrestling fans are the worst people for this cancel culture I have ever seen.
Straight up on their high-horses to be horrified by the actions of someone.
Same people replying "Thank you" to OTT for removing certain wrestlers as if their own lives were in danger by having David Starr in the ring, f*ck me.

Obviously I don't condone anything done by David Starr and Co.

Their safety might be in danger having a dangerous person hanging around shows

The White Wolf

Pentecost wrote: »

I find it fairly hard to believe Candice wasn't aware of any of his behaviour given how he seems to have been doing it all very openly in places they were both at. She always came across as a decent person so maybe I'm doing her a disservice.

Given there are predators in families unbeknownst to each other until something actually comes to light, it's entirely possibly Candice wasn't aware. But meh... whether she knew or not that's between her and her conscience, and nobody else to be frank.
.

Agent Coulson

Impact have suspended Michael Elgin and released Dave Crist with Joey Ryan.

Pentecost

The White Wolf wrote: »

Given there are predators in families unbeknownst to each other until something actually comes to light, it's entirely possibly Candice wasn't aware. But meh... whether she knew or not that's between her and her conscience, and nobody else to be frank.
.

I suppose you're right. Given that nobody has said she was aware of anything it's best to give her the benefit of the doubt.

sirmanga

Jim Cornette responded on his podcast and denied any form of grooming or quid pro quo shenanigans with other wrestlers and his wife.

He did say, however, that he and his wife have an open relationship and she's been there and watched many times as he boned other women.

Jesus. Some things are better left unsaid.

briany

bennyl10 wrote: »

To clarify, believe the accuser unless proven otherwise. I’m not saying different.

No, an accuser should have to back up their claims with evidence. Otherwise you can just run around accusing anyone of anything you like and get away with it.

But more than that, the accused should be allowed to respond and get a fair hearing. Jim Cornette has issued an hour long statement where he categorically denies Phil Earley's claims so now there are two sides to the story, but the IWC doesn't care about that. Their pitchforks are already raised.

Let's see how this pans out as proper due-process legal action is taken.

briany

briany wrote: »

No, an accuser should have to back up their claims with evidence. Otherwise you can just run around accusing anyone of anything you like and get away with it.

But more than that, the accused should be allowed to respond and get a fair hearing. Jim Cornette has issued an hour long statement where he categorically denies Phil Earley's claims so now there are two sides to the story, but the IWC doesn't care about that. Their pitchforks are already raised.

Let's see how this pans out as proper due-process legal action is taken.

This is an extremely important but unpopular opinion.

Furious-Red

briany wrote: »

No, an accuser should have to back up their claims with evidence. Otherwise you can just run around accusing anyone of anything you like and get away with it.

But more than that, the accused should be allowed to respond and get a fair hearing. Jim Cornette has issued an hour long statement where he categorically denies Phil Earley's claims so now there are two sides to the story, but the IWC doesn't care about that. Their pitchforks are already raised.

Let's see how this pans out as proper due-process legal action is taken.

Also agree with this tbh, Its like the recent case with Irish comedian Sly Fox who was accused of sexually assaulting a woman in a bar but the case was thrown out of court due to lack of evidence.
https://www.thejournal.ie/sil-fox-sexual-assault-cleared-courts-5109092-May2020/

beakerjoe

Just because there is a lack of evidence doesnt mean the allegations didnt happen.

Im somewhere in the middle here, if it was my daughter speaking out I would want her to be supported and at least listened to.

That said, if its my son being accused, I would want evidence that hes guilty before hes blackballed. Mud like a rape accusation sticks.

Either way, its a horrible situation either way.

The White Wolf

beakerjoe wrote: »

Just because there is a lack of evidence doesnt mean the allegations didnt happen.

Im somewhere in the middle here, if it was my daughter speaking out I would want her to be supported and at least listened to.

That said, if its my son being accused, I would want evidence that hes guilty before hes blackballed. Mud like a rape accusation sticks.

Either way, its a horrible situation either way.

Yes...it's almost as if such accusations need to be taken on a case by case basis and handled with care.

What's more, I'm sure you wouldn't want your son or daughter dragged through the mud on social media by opposing (and not to mention clueless) sides.

briany

The only valid way to handle these cases is through the law. It's nearest thing we have to a fair way of judging people. Trial by social media is a toxic thing, and looking at how eagerly people hop on the bandwagon, it's not hard at all to see how scores of women were subjected to different manners of summary execution in early modern times, all on the tenuous basis of being a witch. At least the townsfolk of the time could be somewhat excused in their attitudes due to ignorance. What would all the Twitter knuckleheads, with fast access to much of all human knowledge and communication, use as an excuse for their ignorant attitudes?

Lithium93_

Saw this, and it's nail on the head.

https://twitter.com/PhoenixAEW/status/1275186023622799360?s=19

https://twitter.com/PhoenixAEW/status/1275186261989355520?s=19

The Assistinator

I just seen yesterday that fight factory have appointed Debbie to liaison officer not sure that’s gonna work, going back over scotty Davis statement, I seen Debbie saying she doesn’t believe him so if your in a position of power and you believe the first story told will it not lead to as bad a situation.

ThePott

The Assistinator wrote: »

I just seen yesterday that fight factory have appointed Debbie to liaison officer not sure that’s gonna work, going back over scotty Davis statement, I seen Debbie saying she doesn’t believe him so if your in a position of power and you believe the first story told will it not lead to as bad a situation.

I think you're making a big assumption there. You have no idea if Debbie has spoken to Amy or others or anything like that. Talent have more insight and knowledge than we see from their social media presence.

hynesie08

briany wrote: »

The only valid way to handle these cases is through the law. It's nearest thing we have to a fair way of judging people. Trial by social media is a toxic thing, and looking at how eagerly people hop on the bandwagon, it's not hard at all to see how scores of women were subjected to different manners of summary execution in early modern times, all on the tenuous basis of being a witch. At least the townsfolk of the time could be somewhat excused in their attitudes due to ignorance. What would all the Twitter knuckleheads, with fast access to much of all human knowledge and communication, use as an excuse for their ignorant attitudes?

That's fine for sexual assault, joey Ryan and David starr should both end up in prison , but things like kid fite sexting/hooking up with 16 year olds isn't illegally, but it's creepy as **** to the point where he should never be in a position of power over teenagers again, and the only way he was going to be outed was via twitter, and unfortunately that comes with the mob, but wrestling fans have short memories.

The Assistinator wrote: »

I just seen yesterday that fight factory have appointed Debbie to liaison officer not sure that’s gonna work, going back over scotty Davis statement, I seen Debbie saying she doesn’t believe him so if your in a position of power and you believe the first story told will it not lead to as bad a situation.

I'm sure all the info she has is the twitter threads and not 3 years of knowing both parties......

LineOfBeauty

A video with Starr, Big Grizzly and Joel Allen (SPLX merch, UK indies and NXT UK) has surfaced with Starr trying to set up the other two with Bellas friends in a pretty derogatory manner, then throws out a homophobic slur at the end of it for good measure. This guy is the dirt worst.

sky88

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

A video with Starr, Big Grizzly and Joel Allen (SPLX merch, UK indies and NXT UK) has surfaced with Starr trying to set up the other two with Bellas friends in a pretty derogatory manner, then throws out a homophobic slur at the end of it for good measure. This guy is the dirt worst.

just watched that there a vile set of men

The Assistinator

ThePott wrote: »

I think you're making a big assumption there. You have no idea if Debbie has spoken to Amy or others or anything like that. Talent have more insight and knowledge than we see from their social media presence.

I’m going by what I see here Debbie made a post on twitter that came out in support of Amy.

LineOfBeauty

Austin Theory chatting and getting close to a 13 year old girl.

The Assistinator

hynesie08 wrote: »

That's fine for sexual assault, joey Ryan and David starr should both end up in prison , but things like kid fite sexting/hooking up with 16 year olds isn't illegally, but it's creepy as **** to the point where he should never be in a position of power over teenagers again, and the only way he was going to be outed was via twitter, and unfortunately that comes with the mob, but wrestling fans have short memories.




I'm sure all the info she has is the twitter threads and not 3 years of knowing both parties......

And I’m sure you know this as gospel as well, don’t forget there is a serious allegation that scotty made as well.

sirmanga

David Starr. Outspoken Liberal Bernie Bro turns out to be a sex pest pervert. Colour me shocked.

ThePott

The Assistinator wrote: »

I’m going by what I see here Debbie made a post on twitter that came out in support of Amy.

I know but my point is that she probably has insight that not everyone would. So what's the problem?

hynesie08

The Assistinator wrote: »

And I’m sure you know this as gospel as well, don’t forget there is a serious allegation that scotty made as well.

I have no horse in this race,I've never met any of these people.But if you think someone speaking out on a situation means you would be a bad liason you're off the mark. She could have easily stayed out of the light and just kept her head down, unfortunately wrestling is so ****ty that by putting herself forward to amplify other voices, she's probably marked herself as "problematic" and cost herself bookings....... But she did it anyway. She also spoke out against not only one of the top prospects in irish wrestling, she clapped back at Joe cabray about past issues.

If I were a young female trainee/fan right now,I'd be running so far away from wrestling there'd be a hole in the wall, but if I was in ffpw, I would feel a lot safer knowing that if she believed me, she wouldn't stop screaming till someone looked into it, an wrestling needs more people like that.

Agent Coulson

She made the allegation public on social media and they may lead to her being charged with statutory rape if his allegation is proven to be true.


The issue is now the court of social media and not the court of law is going to tar and feather everyone involved sadly rightly or wrongly and if any of these cases do end up in a real court of law and jury pool could be deemed tainted by social media.

hynesie08

Agent Coulson wrote: »

She made the allegation public on social media and they may lead to her being charged with statutory rape if his allegation is proven to be true.


The issue is now the court of social media and not the court of law is going to tar and feather everyone involved sadly rightly or wrongly and if any of these cases do end up in a real court of law and jury pool could be deemed tainted by social media.

There is a proximity of age clause in irish law (and a reasonable doubt one that I'm really glad wrestlers don't know about) that says between the ages of 15-17 and if there's less than 2 years between them and it's consentual, the judge would be obligated to strike it out of court. This was basically to stop overzealous parents getting a boyfriend locked up. In this case if one party is claiming a lack of consent, it wouldn't cancel the clause, the incident would be taken on it's own merit. I'm very open to correction on that though.......

As for the trial by social media tainting a jury pool, that's a very real discussion that needs to take place sooner rather than later, and it's not because of wrestling.

John Hutton

Some serious teddy Hart stuff

https://twitter.com/machi_slams/status/1275457354109054985?s=20

Itssoeasy

****ing hell.

bennyl10

John Hutton wrote: »

Some serious teddy Hart stuff

https://twitter.com/machi_slams/status/1275457354109054985?s=20

Isn’t a surprise unfortunately

Has been charged (and I think convicted) of abuse on at least 1 if not 2 previous occasions

CastorTroy

Do you think they should address people being fired for such things on the tv in any way? Or even just a statement without naming anyone saying they in no way condone the actions of recently released employees

sky88

https://twitter.com/martyscurll/status/1275526538688180224?s=21

Pentecost

Not seeing much in the way of acknowledging that it was very inappropriate even if it technically may have been legal.

LineOfBeauty

Scurll along the same lines as Travis Banks not even acknowledging how absolutely messed up a grown man being with a 16 year old kid actually is. He's another one that needs to be launched out of sight forever.

LineOfBeauty

Scurll along the same lines as Travis Banks not even acknowledging how absolutely messed up a grown man being with a 16 year old kid actually is. He's another one that needs to be launched out of sight forever.

Itssoeasy

CastorTroy wrote: »

Do you think they should address people being fired for such things on the tv in any way? Or even just a statement without naming anyone saying they in no way condone the actions of recently released employees

Honestly the way things are in general it seems you're wrong whatever decision you make.