The Last of Us 2 - SPOILERS!!!

Retr0gamer

Don't worry, anyone that says bad things about Ace Combat 7 deserves to be eaten alive.

I'm not being combative, I'm discussing the game. I find it interesting that you guys can think that way... even if it scares me.

Also I think it says a lot about Joel that when it came to finding Ellie he went for the nuclear option, torture. He effectively let his own selfish motives and desires get the better of him. There are faster and better methods available to him to track her down than going straight to torture.

Penn

gimli2112 wrote: »

Fuk me if I'm ever captured by cannibals I hope you're not the one coming to rescue me.

:D:D

Retro: Tell me where he is!
Goon: No way man, I'm not saying anything!
Retro: Have you ever played Ace Com-
Goon: HE'S IN THE WAREHOUSE AT THE BACK!!!

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

At that point he didn't know anything about them. Did he even know they had kidnapped her at that stage? There were other ways he could have gotten answers. Torture and violence is the extreme response to take, a final resort that really shouldn't be taken so easily. How about tracking them to where they lived? It would have given the same outcome. Yet Joel went straight there and tortured like someone who was an expert in this, this wasn't his first rodeo.

If you look at the psychology of someone that can commit that kind of torture so glibly it points to deep sociopathic tendencies. In our world it might have made him a bit of an alpha male but it the world of TLOU he has let those character flaws turn him into a monster.

I honestly think that the alternative interpretation is a gross simplification of what Neil was writing and really simplifies what is a much more nuanced narrative.

Lets take as step back about 20 minutes prior to the torture scene.

What does Joel know?
He knows the Hunters nearly killed him
They tried to kill him and Ellie as they left the college when he was seriously injured
He wakes up in a shed realizing she saved his life and stitched up his injury.
She is gone missing
There are hunters everywhere
He needs to obtain the information from these scumbags who literally try to kill him again
He fights back and he tortures them for the information

OptimusTractor

SMC92Ian wrote: »

Once you leave that's it, you will have to replay the chapter for collectables.

Better stock up on supplies first as Dina does say.

Zero-Cool

Noticed this on my last playthrough, Joel was learning about space for Ellie

https://twitter.com/Sheehy_83/status/1281353765543649282?s=19

gimli2112

So much sad in that.
The coffee one hit me hard. "no-one touch me"

Zero-Cool

gimli2112 wrote: »

So much sad in that.
The coffee one hit me hard. "no-one touch me"

Speaking of coffee, finally I'm vindicated. Yes Ellie and Dina, coffee does taste like shiit.

gimli2112

While I'll never understand the desire to spend €5 on a mug of coffee I have to say it's one of life's basic food groups. I can drink instant coffee till the cows come home, do cows come home?, I can drink coffee all day long anyway.

I reached the Abby bit on my second playthrough a few days ago. Abby is even more painful this time round. I'm dreading that I've missed something for the platinum. If I have to go through this again I'm going to need take a good long hard look at my life first.

Zero-Cool

gimli2112 wrote: »

While I'll never understand the desire to spend €5 on a mug of coffee I have to say it's one of life's basic food groups. I can drink instant coffee till the cows come home, do cows come home?, I can drink coffee all day long anyway.

I reached the Abby bit on my second playthrough a few days ago. Abby is even more painful this time round. I'm dreading that I've missed something for the platinum. If I have to go through this again I'm going to need take a good long hard look at my life first.

If it makes you feel better, I had to go through The Descent 4 times in a row because I kept missing a collectible and going past a point of no return. What a balls.

Penn

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Speaking of coffee, finally I'm vindicated. Yes Ellie and Dina, coffee does taste like shiit.

Okay see now there's going to be a huge argument on this thread.... :mad::mad::mad:

COFFEE IS THE DAMN NECTAR OF THE GODS! Joel may or may not have been justified in killing the doctor to save Ellie's life, but he was definitely justified in trading whatever he had to to get some coffee off those travelling strangers, even if he traded his Golf Club Resistant Helmet!

Zero-Cool

Now I wish I knew Abby's stance on coffee, maybe she mentioned it but I missed?




















I bet Jerry didn't like coffee.....

Retr0gamer

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Speaking of coffee, finally I'm vindicated. Yes Ellie and Dina, coffee does taste like shiit.

You've gone too far now!

Love myself a coffee but if you are drinking cheap instant coffee or even some of the bad ones people have the cheek to charge 4-5 euro for then you aren't going to know how good it can be.

I've a french press and get my coffee by a guy in my old local town that blends, roasts and grinds his own coffee and it's so hard to go back to the bad coffee most people think is great. And it's not snobbery, the coffee is some of the best I've had and very reasonably priced.

So basically try the good stuff before saying it's bad because there is a lot of bad coffee out there! And drink it dark the way nature intended.

Penn

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I bet Jerry didn't like coffee.....

Maybe if he'd had a coffee he wouldn't have been so quick to make a decision on Ellie. They could have all sat down and discussed it over a nice cup of coffee.

Zero-Cool

Penn wrote: »

Maybe if he'd had a coffee he wouldn't have been so quick to make a decision on Ellie. They could have all sat down and discussed it over a nice cup of coffee.

I think the opposite, he was jolted up on that devil juice and was mad to go cutting people open. coffee, people, COFFEE!!

Zero-Cool

Retr0gamer wrote: »

So basically try the good stuff before saying it's bad because there is a lot of bad coffee out there! And drink it dark the way nature intended.

My wife's favourite thing in the world is coffee and she's quick to throw out anything less than the perfect cup. She got me to try it so many times but it's not happening. Also, working in IT and not drinking coffee makes me a bit of a freak. Saying that, tea is a load of shyte as well.

Penn

Zero-Cool wrote: »

My wife's favourite thing in the world is coffee and she's quick to throw out anything less than the perfect cup. She got me to try it so many times but it's not happening. Also, working in IT and not drinking coffee makes me a bit of a freak. Saying that, tea is a load of shyte as well.

All through college and even my first few years working in an office, didn't drink any hot drinks. But eventually started having the odd coffee here and there at meetings to be polite, then maybe one in the morning when I first came in etc.

It beat me down eventually. Now I can't sit in the office without having a cup every few hours.

If ever a global virus like what happens in The Last of Us is transmitted through coffee, you might survive. I'd rather be a clicker, endlessly shuffling through dark corridors following the faint scent of a broken jar of Carte Noire.

Jordan 199

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Speaking of coffee, finally I'm vindicated. Yes Ellie and Dina, coffee does taste like shiit.

May the bloaters take care of you.

Retr0gamer

Zero-Cool wrote: »

My wife's favourite thing in the world is coffee and she's quick to throw out anything less than the perfect cup. She got me to try it so many times but it's not happening. Also, working in IT and not drinking coffee makes me a bit of a freak. Saying that, tea is a load of shyte as well.

It was actually working crunch on a videogame that got me drinking coffee. I never drank hot drinks before and I was drinking insane amounts of Diet Coke for my Caffeine fix and moved to something I thought would be a bit healthier. My first cup of decent coffee was a where have you been all my life moment. Didn't help that the next place I worked had a coffee machine that ground it's own beans and had amazing coffee on tap and free.

Now I have a coffee problem but wouldn't have it any other way.

I think insulting coffee is insulting Ace Combat 7 levels of bad.... maybe even worse

SMC92Ian

Zero-Cool wrote: »

My wife's favourite thing in the world is coffee and she's quick to throw out anything less than the perfect cup. She got me to try it so many times but it's not happening. Also, working in IT and not drinking coffee makes me a bit of a freak. Saying that, tea is a load of shyte as well.

I never drink tea or coffee either, pure scutter water, I actually don't drink anything really, just mainly water and the odd 7-up lite or Vit-Hit every now and then.

ziggyman17

Loved the game, but felt the game should have ended at the farm, there was no need for the Santa Barbra part...

Mr.Fantastic

ziggyman17 wrote: »

Loved the game, but felt the game should have ended at the farm, there was no need for the Santa Barbra part...

Totally agree on this. Also Ellie not killing Abby at the climax, even in the heat of the moment it just didn't seem very realistic. I know we have the comparable of abby/lev to her and Joel. But it just seemed kind of pointless in the end, to travel all that way and even go across the desert near las vegas:eek:.

Overall a great game felt like the final battle should have been a player choice, would have added more gravitas in my opinion .

The only other complaint is that I found ellie's personality extremly grating , **** you dude etc etc.

Leroy42

Mr.Fantastic wrote: »

Totally agree on this. Also Ellie not killing Abby at the climax, even in the heat of the moment it just didn't seem very realistic. I know we have the comparable of abby/lev to her and Joel. But it just seemed kind of pointless in the end, to travel all that way and even go across the desert near las vegas:eek:.

Overall a great game felt like the final battle should have been a player choice, would have added more gravitas in my opinion .

The only other complaint is that I found ellie's personality extremly grating , **** you dude etc etc.

It was pointless, that was the point!

All the pain, death, sacrifice. She knew killing Abby wouldn't change anything. She had realised that in Seattle when she accepted going home with Dina was the right choice but her PTSD drove her to want to finish it.

The players 'choice ' was how they reacted to Ellie letting Abby go. We all know it was the right choice. That people are upset they didn't get to kill Abby is supposed to make one realise that you too have let anger and hate dicate your moral standing.

Mr.Fantastic

Leroy42 wrote: »

It was pointless, that was the point!

All the pain, death, sacrifice. She knew killing Abby wouldn't change anything. She had realised that in Seattle when she accepted going home with Dina was the right choice but her PTSD drove her to want to finish it.

The players 'choice ' was how they reacted to Ellie letting Abby go. We all know it was the right choice. That people are upset they didn't get to kill Abby is supposed to make one realise that you too have let anger and hate dicate your moral standing.

Yeah I know she comes to the realization that it was pointless during the act of killing her.

I didn't have an innate bloodlust for abby's death if anything I saw the cylical nature of revenge and anyone would want revenge for their parent, just I felt it wasn't realistic that Ellie would have let her go.

Also I didn't get why Tommy was pushing her to go an intially he was the one with a sense of reason to leave it. I know you can argue with his injuries and the seperation he became embittered.

But yeah thats the only niggle tbh , overall the game was super absorbing felt like I was watching a great tv series.

Penn

Mr.Fantastic wrote: »

Also I didn't get why Tommy was pushing her to go an intially he was the one with a sense of reason to leave it. I know you can argue with his injuries and the seperation he became embittered.

I kind of got the impression that he was only trying to convince Ellie to leave it at the start to protect her. That if he went on his own, he could take them down and get revenge for Joel before Ellie had a chance to catch up with him and ensuring Ellie didn't put herself in danger trying to take them on. After all, Tommy has a history of doing fairly unspeakable things. I think he knew what would have to be done to take Abby and her group down and didn't want Ellie to have to do it.

Leroy42

Penn wrote: »

I kind of got the impression that he was only trying to convince Ellie to leave it at the start to protect her. That if he went on his own, he could take them down and get revenge for Joel before Ellie had a chance to catch up with him and ensuring Ellie didn't put herself in danger trying to take them on. After all, Tommy has a history of doing fairly unspeakable things. I think he knew what would have to be done to take Abby and her group down and didn't want Ellie to have to do it.

I think Mr F meant after the time at the farm.

I do think they could have made something better of the Ellie and Tommy story. Tommy is always 'just ahead of them' but gates are locked, clues not found etc. Rather than Jesse meeting up with Ellie, have Tommy rescue her at the same point and then they both escape.

Que a movement where Tommy starts to realise that all the killing, the danger etc is not going to bring Joel back and that they have a good new life in Jackson. Ellie continues to push back until the killing of Mel when she have the same awakening she has in this game. And then Abby burst in and off we go.

Not sure what Jesse added to it, and you could have had some great cut scenes between Tommy and Ellie discussing the good and bad of Joel, and each other.

Penn

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think Mr F meant after the time at the farm.

I was taking the "intially he was the one with a sense of reason to leave it" to be his position at the start of the game where he was trying to persuade Ellie to leave it and then asked Ellie to wait a day so he could discuss it with Maria, but then left by himself without her.

I think it shows he wanted revenge just as much as Ellie, but didn't want Ellie to be in danger or have to do the horrible things required to get revenge. He wanted to protect her by taking it on himself. At the end at the farm though, he knows he can't do it without her and that she's already done those sort of things, so wants to do it together.

I think it was right to use Jesse in Day 2 though and leave Tommy for Day 3. Jesse helps build up the conflict in Ellie in terms of her relationship with Dina. Meanwhile it means you get Tommy as the sniper in Abby's Day 3 which you couldn't if he was with Ellie. Maybe Ellie and Tommy could have met in Day 3 after that but before Ellie gets to the Aquarium and had the conversations you're talking about.

ronano

Everything I'm going to say has probably been said but it was a brutal, gruelling, emotional gut punch of a game that was a fantastic experience to play, I felt drained, teary eye'd allot during it. Continuously conflicted about my perception of the game and the characters motivations through the various flashbacks. I looked up the issues with the game after finishing it, putting the anti sjw bs aside. I think the claims of emotional manipulation and not within the previous development of the characters doesn't ring true for me. Ellie's actions are in keeping with her growing, the loss of Joel and the potential for forgiveness, less a vengeance mission and more trying to reconcicle the grief about the above.

My ps4 crapped out 20 minutes prior to the switch to abby, it was frustrating as **** to have to blow through the game again to get back to that point. I'll pick the game up again in the future, probably in a few months as a play through of tlou and dlc followed by tlou 2. For me, the game delivered when I half expected it to fail. I would be interested in a part three just because I don't want to let go of the characters and world.

Zero-Cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFLtbCf4L60

Penn

Girlfriend Reviews have done their review of TLOU2

Posting in here as they directly discuss the spoilers and stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1pA4mFLyvU

gimli2112

Watched it this morning. It's their most liked and disliked video. They caught a tide of hatred for it. You'd want a thick skin to post your TLOU2 opinion online.
I think the game itself did a lot right and did a lot wrong but ultimately if I want to be miserable I can do something else.