Post modern progressiveness

sydthebeat

Did a Schizophrenic put that poll together??

TomTomTim

ceannbui wrote: »

This is nonsense, mostly.

You've jumped to a conclusion without explaining how you've got there. A common trait among posters like yourself. Then you do the usual crying about extremism. You never bother to explain yourself, yet think you have the moral high ground just because you hold the "right" views.

ceannbui

TomTomTim wrote: »

You've jumped to a conclusion without explaining how you've got there. A common trait among posters like yourself. Then you do the usual crying about extremism. You never bother to explain yourself, yet think you have the moral high ground just because you hold the "right" views.

my conclusion was jumped to after i outlined why and how in my response. Maybe read it *all* first and not just the conclusion?

Chris_Heilong

Came across this video of a guy that was trained by the KGB, his insights seem to explain the seeds of what we are seeing today, watch from 1:00 in.

Junkyard Tom

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Came across this video of a guy that was trained by the KGB, his insights seem to explain the seeds of what we are seeing today, watch from 1:00 in.
youtube.com/watch?v=OmsDN0i4tm8

Is there something wrong with your brain? Even if we take everything that he said as truth, he was literally speaking about how the Soviet Union would defeat the US from within. The Soviet Union no longer exists - it lost.

Chris_Heilong

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Is there something wrong with your brain? Even if we take everything that he said as truth, he was literally speaking about how the Soviet Union would defeat the US from within. The Soviet Union no longer exists - it lost.

Typical reply, turn to insulting the poster?

You should have paid more attention to what he was saying. He said it was a slow process and would take many generations, most post modernist are also deep into Marxist/Leninist theory and some even call themselves communist. The soviets had a plan to plant the seeds of Destabilization and just look at America today. Any logical person can see what he is talking about seems to match the radical post modernists current behavior.

Junkyard Tom

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

He said it was a slow process and would take many generations, most post modernist are also deep into Marxist/Leninist theory and some even call themselves communist. The soviets had a plan to plant the seeds of Destabilization and just look at America today. Any logical person can see what he is talking about seems to match the radical post modernists current behavior.

So let me get this straight, there's a group of people trying to destabilise Western countries by using Marxist theory and it started with the USSR but they're still at it even after the USSR has fallen apart?

You're saying there is an inter-generational conspiracy here?

Clarence Boddiker

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Is there something wrong with your brain? Even if we take everything that he said as truth, he was literally speaking about how the Soviet Union would defeat the US from within. The Soviet Union no longer exists - it lost.

Marxism still exists, and in any case whether the Soviet Union exists is completely irrelevant.
The fact is that (Western) Marxist academics have dominated almost every discipline and every department of Western Universities for at least 4 decades now. And we are seeing the results today. Bezmenov was absolutely correct in his predictions.

Clarence Boddiker

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So let me get this straight, there's a group of people trying to destabilise Western countries by using Marxist theory and it started with the USSR but they're still at it even after the USSR has fallen apart?

You're saying there is an inter-generational conspiracy here?

Is Marxism confined to the USSR? Really?

2u2me

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Marxism still exists, and in any case whether the Soviet Union exists is completely irrelevant.
The fact is that (Western) Marxist academics have dominated almost every discipline and every department of Western Universities for at least 4 decades now. And we are seeing the results today. Bezmenov was absolutely correct in his predictions.

“Exposure to true information does not matter any more. A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him. Even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures. Even if I take him, by force, to the Soviet Union and show him (a) concentration camp, he will refuse to believe it until he is going to receive a kick in his fat bottom. When the military boot crashes his, then he will understand. But not before that. That is the tragedy of this situation of demoralization.”

All I've heard for the last month now is 'that's not what they mean'. I'm sure the Soviets didn't mean to have concentration camps either.

Clarence Boddiker

2u2me wrote: »

All I've heard for the last month now is 'that's not what they mean'. I'm sure the Soviets didn't mean to have concentration camps either.

The quote you posted is a perfect summation of the mind of the contemporary progressive.

Chris_Heilong

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

but they're still at it even after the USSR has fallen apart?

You're saying there is an inter-generational conspiracy here?

I dont care much for conspiracy. I found the video interesting and gave my take on it about how it might have a connection to the subject matter.

Junkyard Tom

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Marxism still exists, and in any case whether the Soviet Union exists is completely irrelevant.
The fact is that (Western) Marxist academics have dominated almost every discipline and every department of Western Universities for at least 4 decades now.

Marxism...

And we are seeing the results today.

... therefore BLM protests? Is this the claim you're making? Are all protests because of Marxism or just these ones? Are all BLM protesters Marxists? Was George Floyd's death used by the shadowy Marxist cabal to spark protests?

Bezmenov was absolutely correct in his predictions.

How many self-professed Marxists hold political office in the US? US politics is more-or-less two factions of the business party vying for control. The US is perhaps the least politically diverse democratic political entity on Earth but no, Marxists under the bed. If Bezmenov is telling the truth then he has gotten it horribly wrong.

Clarence Boddiker

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Marxism...



... therefore BLM protests? Is this the claim you're making? Are all protests because of Marxism or just these ones? Are all BLM protesters Marxists? Was George Floyd's death used by the shadowy Marxist cabal to spark protests?



How many self-professed Marxists hold political office in the US? US politics is more-or-less two factions of the business party vying for control. The US is perhaps the least politically diverse democratic political entity on Earth but no, Marxists under the bed. If Bezmenov is telling the truth then he has gotten it horribly wrong.

Marxism as I'm sure you're well aware is a very broad church, there are many Marxist ideals to which I myself would subscribe.
As for BLM, Critical Race Theory is certainly an offshoot of Marxism, as was Critical Theory. Certainly those behind Critical Theory considered themselves Marxists and their work an extension of the same.
I would personally consider the current crop of 'Socialists' anything but and as far from Socialism as you could get. But they consider themselves as such.

Junkyard Tom

2u2me wrote: »

All I've heard for the last month now is 'that's not what they mean'. I'm sure the Soviets didn't mean to have concentration camps either.

Oh I'm not denying that there were people at that time who refused believe that the Soviet Union was murderous dictatorship, but this is 2020.

You're grafting Cold War shit onto the 21st Century because you've heard it from some cranks on YouTube and you think you're clever.

People with your 'OMG PoMoNeoMarxists are coming for us' views are the result of listening to bullshitters and conspiracy theorist 'stars' of the US culture wars.

2u2me

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Marxists

They call themselves intersectionalists these days.

2u2me

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Oh I'm not denying that there were people at that time who refused believe that the Soviet Union was murderous dictatorship, but this is 2020.

You're grafting Cold War shit onto the 21st Century because you've heard it from some cranks on YouTube and you think you're clever.

People with your 'OMG PoMoNeoMarxists are coming for us' views are the result of listening to bullshitters and conspiracy theorist 'stars' of the US culture wars.

I'm saying the attitude expressed today is the same one expressed then, one of denial.
What does abolish the police mean? It means restructing the police right?

Do you know anything about standpoint theory? Do you have any idea how many times that 'theory' has been referenced in the last 4 years within the humanities 'literature'?

the beginnings of standpoint theory are based on the critical paradigm from a Marxist view of social class oppression

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standpoint_theory

Junkyard Tom

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Marxism as I'm sure you're well aware is a very broad church, there are many Marxist ideals to which I myself would subscribe.

'Leftists' couldn't agree on the colour of shite never mind direct an inter-generational conspiracy.

As for BLM, Critical Race Theory is certainly an offshoot of Marxism, as was Critical Theory. Certainly those behind Critical Theory considered themselves Marxists and their work an extension of the same.

Do you really think people need Critical Theory to protest? Reality exists outside Marx's theories and would do whether he ever wrote anything down. Slavery predated Marx's writing but slaves still revolted because they saw the natural injustice of people profiting from their misery.

ExMachina1000

Horrible people. Pushy, opinionated and demanding. Should all be rounded up, compacted and sold as pig food

Junkyard Tom

2u2me wrote: »

What does abolish the police mean? It means restructing the police right?

It's a bloody slogan and wasn't it 'Defund the Police'? The war on drugs/crime people has been an utter disaster in the US wouldn't you agree?

Clarence Boddiker

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

'
Do you really think people need Critical Theory to protest? Reality exists outside Marx's theories and would do whether he ever wrote anything down. Slavery predated Marx's writing but slaves still revolted because they saw the natural injustice of people profiting from their misery.

Most of the people who are protesting have certainly been educated or indoctrinated in Critical Theory whether they realise it or not.
The narrative has moved from class to race. But the motive remains the same, to tear down and destroy the structures of the Western World. You'll notice there's very little resistance to Capitalism in these protests, there are very few people burning down banks or financial institutions. In fact most of the corporate world is on the side of the protests.
There's a belief that the likes of Foucault back in the 70s were offered a choice - take your individualism, sexual freedom, identity politics, race theories etc and leave Capitalism/Usury/Globalism alone.
And this is what has happened and what we're seeing today, Capitalism at the top, dominating and facing no resistance. The rest fighting over identity issues.

Very few people ever thought they'd see the day when the supposed Socialists and Communists would be advocating for the likes of Mass Immigration which destroys the working classes, lowers wages, increases property prices/rents, increases competition for jobs and absolutely benefits the Capitalist class.

2u2me

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's a bloody slogan and wasn't it 'Defund the Police'? The war on drugs/crime people has been an utter disaster in the US wouldn't you agree?

Yeah I'd agree with that; the American dream died long ago. I find myself most in sympathy with the occupy wallstreet part of this movement; as they did try to protest 'the right way' for so long. They are in dire need of proper leadership. I believe addressing these issues will benefit everyone.

But when they say abolish the police they literally mean abolish the police.

Those slogans may appear ill-thought out, but they are the very opposite. I believe they are very carefully crafted to actually achieve their goals. Very marxist altogether.
"Silence is violence"
"Enemy or Ally"

They easily could have gone with "reform the police" but as we saw with the Seattle mayor Frey that's not what they want.

Girly Gal

Girly Gal wrote: »

Debating issues in a civilised manner is much more difficult now, no room for compromise, you're either 100% with us or against us, this goes for both sides.

This is one aspect of life that is infinitely worse now than it used to be and has the potential to destroy western civilisation.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So let me get this straight, there's a group of people trying to destabilise Western countries by using Marxist theory and it started with the USSR but they're still at it even after the USSR has fallen apart?

You're saying there is an inter-generational conspiracy here?

China.

Richard Hillman

The very people out there being militant "progressives" are the exact personality types that were running around in the past being religious puritants. They are led by sense of self righteousness and a belief that their way of life is pure.

Society defines itself on which direction it wants to go. Everything going on right now is artificial and will lead to grave consequences for the puritants.

Junkyard Tom

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Most of the people who are protesting have certainly been educated or indoctrinated in Critical Theory whether they realise it or not.

How are you arriving at this conclusion? I'm vaguely familiar with it and I've read it a few times.

Also, how much is Critical Theory, or at least what it posits, a description of people's reality that they innately understand rather than programming an army of bots?

The narrative has moved from class to race. But the motive remains the same, to tear down and destroy the structures of the Western World.

To tear down and destroy the structures of the Western World? What structures exactly?

You'll notice there's very little resistance to Capitalism in these protests, there are very few people burning down banks or financial institutions. In fact most of the corporate world is on the side of the protests.

They'd be crushed like ants.

There's a belief that the likes of Foucault back in the 70s were offered a choice - take your individualism, sexual freedom, identity politics, race theories etc and leave Capitalism/Usury/Globalism alone.

That's why I have mixed feelings about Mandela. He was given that 'choice'; you can have all the democracy and freedom you want but you don't touch the gold/diamond mines, you don't disrupt commerce, and you can fucking forget about reparations.

And this is what has happened and what we're seeing today, Capitalism at the top, dominating and facing no resistance.

More-or-less yes but it doesn't have it all its own way, social democratic countries have a sort of balance between capitalism and a society's less saleable needs.

The rest fighting over identity issues.

It's bigger than that, this is disenfranchisement and alienation. Half of US workers are one pay cheque from destitution. People are living precarious lives - they have less-and-less to lose by causing friction.

Very few people ever thought they'd see the day when the supposed Socialists and Communists would be advocating for the likes of Mass Immigration which destroys the working classes, lowers wages, increases property prices/rents, increases competition for jobs and absolutely benefits the Capitalist class.

It's the system we live in. If Ireland had said in 2009 'we're not paying back the bondholders, in fact we're going to use government spending, through various methods, to generate internal commerce' we'd have been strangled to death like Cuba.

Junkyard Tom

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The very people out there being militant "progressives" are the exact personality types that were running around in the past being religious puritants.

The people bitching about them are the exact same types who'd have been clapping their freinds off to the Gulags in the USSR for daring to question the system.

Chris_Heilong

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The people bitching about them are the exact same types who'd have been clapping their freinds off to the Gulags in the USSR for daring to question the system.

So before this thread have you heard any of these ideas before? Did you already make you mind up about the issue or are you just reacting hearing these things for the first time? Just want to understand your position on things.

Junkyard Tom

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

So before this thread have you heard any of these ideas before?

Yes. I was aware of the Cultural Marxism, which preceded the PoMoNeoMarxo thing so looked into it and discovered it is basically code for 'everything I don't like from the liberal-left'.

Did you already make you mind up about the issue or are you just reacting hearing these things for the first time?

It's not even an issue. There is no conspiracy. Learning critical theory no more makes you want to destroy western civilisation than learning about the profit motive makes you want to own slaves.

biko

Progressive.
While some statues are torn down this one is erected

A statue of Soviet leader Vladimir Lenin has been unveiled in the western German city of Gelsenkirchen.
The installation comes amid global protests against monuments to controversial historical figures.

https://www.dw.com/en/controversial-lenin-statue-unveiled-in-germanys-gelsenkirchen/a-53880002