“Senior politician, household name” sexually assaults girl [** NO NAMES **]

Spon Farmer

Sheep_shear wrote: »

You want more evidence than my anonymous, forum post? Really?

I didn't ask for evidence. I asked if you can prove it.

Your response shows you are not telling the truth.

Sheep_shear

canonball5 wrote: »

Well the person I heard who it was is the same person who did almost exactly the same thing to my friends wife.

My neighbour's brother was present at the event you're referring to, he is clear in saying that she's lying.

Sheep_shear

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I didn't ask for evidence. I asked if you can prove it.

If you give me 10 minutes, I'll get a link to a post on Twitter backing me up.

seamus

To answer the OP; I believe her. I have no reason not to.

I have issues with many of these Twitter dramas though. They all have the same format; "Some really powerful people in <insert industry here> aren't who you think they are. I will be telling my story but not naming names", or "If you knew who it was that raped me, you'd all be shocked".

I understand why they don't name names. I understand why they want to speak out.

But I'm not sure it is actually "doing good".

For one, what you're telling these individuals is pretty close to, "I know what you did, but I'm never going to tell anyone because I'm too scared". That won't make them run for the hills, quite the opposite.

But you're also giving fuel to the gobsh1tes who believe that #metoo is a feminist-inspired attention-seeking vehicle for liars. Vague allusions to things that happened, with no real details and an unwillingness to get into specifics, can easily be framed as lies by people who want to believe that it's lies.

In this way it can be counter-productive. <redacted> name is being thrown around a lot. But also, not really. A photo of him and Billie Eilish from last year with the note that, "This photo has a whole new meaning now". Does it? How? Oh wait, nobody is willing to say anything. It reads like Facebook huns.

"Grrr, so angry at men today!"

"U ok hun x"

"I'm OK, I'll PM you".

It doesn't read like someone revealing a deeply damaging personal encounter. It reads like someone venting about something small and looking for attention. And the same Twitter stuff, without any real detail, sounds the same. And in doing so undermines (IMHO) the people on Twitter who are trying to reveal a deeply damaging encounter.

KiKi III

Antares35 wrote: »

FFS. She should consider herself lucky she isn't a survivor of abuse. If she was, she might actually think twice about using something like this to garner attention. Idiot.

She is. If you even read her posts you’d know she reported an assault to the Gardaí in the past and the guy got away with it anyway. That’s partially why she won’t name this guy now.

StackSteevens

Sheep_shear wrote: »

My neighbour's brother was present at the event you're referring to, he is clear in saying that she's lying.

And I met a man who knows a man who met someone whose name he doesn't recall who told him that she was giving the said politician a heavy "come and get it" vibe all night long as she lashed into the vodka and tonics.












This is fun, isn't it?

canonball5

KiKi III wrote: »

She is. If you even read her posts you’d know she reported an assault to the Gardaí in the past and the guy got away with it anyway. That’s partially why she won’t name this guy now.

There was an investigation in the political party after the assault my friend's wife too. Nothing came of it and he was even given a higher profile in the party.

KiKi III

StackSteevens wrote: »

And I met a man who knows a man who met someone whose name he doesn't recall who told him that she was giving the said politician a heavy "come and get it" vibe all night long as she lashed into the vodka and tonics.












This is fun, isn't it?

No. Making a big joke of it all is quite distressing for people who have been assaulted as I have.

The argument you’re making above that the woman in the scenario consented/ encouraged the behaviour is one that regularly allows rapists to walk free.

But hahaha I made a hilarious point on boards and I might get some thanks for it from the boys.

Annasopra

Antares35 wrote: »

FFS. She should consider herself lucky she isn't a survivor of abuse. If she was, she might actually think twice about using something like this to garner attention. Idiot.

She is. She has documented it.

Annasopra

canonball5 wrote: »

There was an investigation in the political party after the assault my friend's wife too. Nothing came of it and he was even given a higher profile in the party.

How do you know this is the same person/party? Given there has been differing guesses here and elsewhere this could be a totally different person/party

StackSteevens

KiKi III wrote: »

No. Making a big joke of it all is quite distressing for people who have been assaulted as I have.

The argument you’re making above that the woman in the scenario consented/ encouraged the behaviour is one that regularly allows rapists to walk free.

But hahaha I made a hilarious point on boards and I might get some thanks for it from the boys.

I once read a tweet that claimed that the individual who posted it had a 12 inch dick. I assume that if you had read it, you'd have taken it as gospel.

However, I'm less inclined to swallow everything (pun intended) that I read on social media.

Airyfairy12

KiKi III wrote: »

Tonight I can’t sleep because I’m thinking about the man who groomed me online in the early 2000s and made me give him a blow job when I was 13/14 and had barely even kissed boys never mind gone that far.

I’m thinking about how I assumed I’d get in trouble for sneaking out to meet him so I never told my parents, and haven’t to this day.

I’m thinking about how he told me he was 29 but admitted when we met that he was 42. I remember him taunting me about having sucked a 42 year old’s cock after.

This was almost 20 years ago now. I don’t remember his name, and I assume it was fake anyway. I remember the site we met on though, and that I reported him on it the next day. I didn’t get a reply.

I only told one friend and I asked him recently if he remembered. He does and I’m so glad about that. His memories will never be used to corroborate my story in court or in the media or on Twitter.

But I’m glad my friend remembers.

This is just one story of mine, but it’s the one that’s keeping me up tonight.

Wish I could say im surprised by your story but tbh, id be more surprised if you didnt have a story. Im so sorry that happened to you btw.

All these abuse stories coming to light, reminds me of when I was 9 and an older relative groomed me and my friend and made us perform sexual acts, or when he used to show me porn and adult womens underwear that he had hidden in his room.
Also reminds me of being 13 and meeting a 70+ year old man who tried to coerce me into his house for 'tea'.
Or at 14 walking with my friends from the cinema and a middle aged man, standing outside a bookies with his middle aged friends, grabbed my ass as I walked passed and laughed with his friends as he called me sexy.
Or at 15 in our school uniform getting followed around town by grown men.
Or the time my ex raped me because according to him 'How can he rape someone in his own bed'.
I have many more stories but would be here all day if I had to recount every one.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

To answer the OP; I believe her. I have no reason not to.

I have issues with many of these Twitter dramas though. They all have the same format; "Some really powerful people in <insert industry here> aren't who you think they are. I will be telling my story but not naming names", or "If you knew who it was that raped me, you'd all be shocked".

I understand why they don't name names. I understand why they want to speak out.

But I'm not sure it is actually "doing good".

For one, what you're telling these individuals is pretty close to, "I know what you did, but I'm never going to tell anyone because I'm too scared". That won't make them run for the hills, quite the opposite.

But you're also giving fuel to the gobsh1tes who believe that #metoo is a feminist-inspired attention-seeking vehicle for liars. Vague allusions to things that happened, with no real details and an unwillingness to get into specifics, can easily be framed as lies by people who want to believe that it's lies.

In this way it can be counter-productive. Glen Hansard's name is being thrown around a lot. But also, not really. A photo of him and Billie Eilish from last year with the note that, "This photo has a whole new meaning now". Does it? How? Oh wait, nobody is willing to say anything. It reads like Facebook huns.

"Grrr, so angry at men today!"

"U ok hun x"

"I'm OK, I'll PM you".

It doesn't read like someone revealing a deeply damaging personal encounter. It reads like someone venting about something small and looking for attention. And the same Twitter stuff, without any real detail, sounds the same. And in doing so undermines (IMHO) the people on Twitter who are trying to reveal a deeply damaging encounter.

There’s also a responsibility issue here- from her post, there has probably developed a whole heap of speculation about certain male Irish politicians with names being thrown out left right and center. Innocent people who have a right to their good name, are being named- I don’t think that’s solving anything.

I’ve seen it with another twitter account whereby about 1/2 dozen names of people in the entertainment industry are being mentioned in derogatory terms - again I won’t link but I can see many posters here have seen that twitter account- they’re actively encouraging people to DM them with “stories” of famous Irish people and then writing cryptic tweets directed at those people- with not a care in the world around whether true or not.

I’ve not going to state whether I either believe or disbelieve the person in question on which this thread is based- i don’t know her and it’s none of my business so why should she care what I think.
While social media has done some good in the area of highlighting sexual exploitation issues, inappropriate behaviour etc, I’m not convinced posting what she posted will have an overall positive affect on anything- but it may do some harm to some innocent people.

KiKi III

StackSteevens wrote: »

I once read a tweet that claimed that the individual who posted it had a 12 inch dick. I assume that if you had read it, you'd have taken it as gospel.

However, I'm less inclined to swallow everything (pun intended) that I read on social media.

I don’t believe everything I read on social media.

I do believe this woman.

Often in a scenario like this it’s “he said/she said” and men automatically side with the man. This scenario is just “she said” and even then, when she’s talking about an unnamed man, you’re more inclined to believe this anonymous person didn’t do it than to believe her.

There’s an incredibly high level of distrust in women on display in this thread.

Spon Farmer

I’ve just become uncomfortable sitting in our front room because every time I look out the window there is a young woman walking or jogging passed and they all seem to looking in.

I’ve started wondering do they think I’m gawping out at them. Even though they are also looking in I feel guilty.

StackSteevens

KiKi III wrote: »

I don’t believe everything I read on social media.

I do believe this woman.

Often in a scenario like this it’s “he said/she said” and men automatically side with the man. This scenario is just “she said” and even then, when she’s talking about an unnamed man, you’re more inclined to believe this anonymous person didn’t do it than to believe her.

There’s an incredibly high level of distrust in women on display in this thread.

What do you think was the point of her post?

suicide_circus

i dont see how anyone can believe her or disbelieve her.

there is no evidence to base either stance on.

you can have a groundless hunch i suppose.

KiKi III

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Wish I could say im surprised by your story but tbh, id be more surprised if you didnt have a story. Im so sorry that happened to you btw.

All these abuse stories coming to light, reminds me of when I was 9 and an older relative groomed me and my friend and made us perform sexual acts, or when he used to show me porn and adult womens underwear that he had hidden in his room.
Also reminds me of being 13 and meeting a 70+ year old man who tried to coerce me into his house for 'tea'.
Or at 14 walking with my friends from the cinema and a middle aged man, standing outside a bookies with his middle aged friends, grabbed my ass as I walked passed and laughed with his friends as he called me sexy.
Or at 15 in our school uniform getting followed around town by grown men.
Or the time my ex raped me because according to him 'How can he rape someone in his own bed'.
I have many more stories but would be here all day if I had to recount every one.

Horrible.

That’s the bit a lot of men don’t get. We don’t say “I believe her” because it’s some woke Twitter trend, we say it because in a lot of cases we’ve been there, and so have our best friends, and our older sisters etc.

I told one of my stories last night because it was preying on my mind but I have three or four others.

I think there’s a deep-seated instinct in a lot of men to disbelieve women because they don’t want to examine their peers’ behaviour.

How many of you lads who don’t believe women are in WhatsApp groups where porn, misogynistic jokes and memes etc are shared regularly?

CtevenSrowder

KiKi III wrote: »

I don’t believe everything I read on social media.

I do believe this woman.

Often in a scenario like this it’s “he said/she said” and men automatically side with the man. This scenario is just “she said” and even then, when she’s talking about an unnamed man, you’re more inclined to believe this anonymous person didn’t do it than to believe her.

There’s an incredibly high level of distrust in women on display in this thread.

Sure you could turn that around and say women just automatically believe the woman. Also is it not the case that majority male juries are more likely to convict in rape cases then majority female. So clearly when actual evidence is provided men are not so likely to just side with the man.

Edit: "Many studies suggest women are more likely to judge female rape complainants harshly and to acquit men accused of rape. In 2009, Irish academics who studied 108 rape trials found that male-dominated juries had the highest conviction rate. There was not a single conviction in the 17 cases which had female-dominated juries".

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/women-under-represented-on-juries-in-serious-criminal-trials-1.3156886

KiKi III

StackSteevens wrote: »

What do you think was the point of her post?

I don’t know her, so I can’t say for sure. I know that I was compelled by the allegations on Twitter over the weekend to share a story from my own past here last night. I didn’t really have a “point”, I was just upset about it and wanted to get it off my chest.

So maybe that was her point.

bladespin

KiKi III wrote: »

There’s an incredibly high level of distrust in women on display in this thread.

Pretty high level of distrust in men on it too.

frozenfrozen

KiKi III wrote: »

Horrible.

That’s the bit a lot of men don’t get. We don’t say “I believe her” because it’s some woke Twitter trend, we say it because in a lot of cases we’ve been there, and so have our best friends, and our older sisters etc.

I told one of my stories last night because it was preying on my mind but I have three or four others.

I think there’s a deep-seated instinct in a lot of men to disbelieve women because they don’t want to examine their peers’ behaviour.

How many of you lads who don’t believe women are in WhatsApp groups where porn, misogynistic jokes and memes etc are shared regularly?

I think you are being very unfair to men who have been sexually abused or are indeed otherwise just normal nice people.

Do you have an instinct to think all men are deviants? You keep referring to men like we are all some homogenous group of rapists, not people who may have also been sexually assaulted, even by women

KiKi III

bladespin wrote: »

Pretty high level of distrust in men on it too.

I don’t think that’s true. Women have shared their experiences with abusers, I don’t think any of us have said or implied that there aren’t also many wonderful, caring, honest men in the world.

If a man alleged he had been assaulted online, I’d be just as inclined to give his account credence as a women’s.

KiKi III

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I think you are being very unfair to men who have been sexually abused or are indeed otherwise just normal nice people.

Do you have an instinct to think all men are deviants? You keep referring to men like we are all some homogenous group of rapists, not people who may have also been sexually assaulted, even by women

None of this is true. I have not made any broad statements about men like you are all a group of rapists and it’s really unfair to characterise what I’ve said that way.

The idea I’ve been unfair to male victims is so false that it must be an attempt at trolling.

What I have said is when it’s “he said/she said” men tend to believe men and I believe that’s due to a reluctance to really examine their peers’ actions.

Thousands of men and women attend rape crisis centres each year. Yet we only very occasionally hear of a false allegation.

The numbers don’t lie. Sexual violence is prevalent in Ireland but some people just seem to not want to believe it.

bladespin

KiKi III wrote: »

I don’t think that’s true. Women have shared their experiences with abusers, I don’t think any of us have said or implied that there aren’t also many wonderful, caring, honest men in the world.

If a man alleged he had been assaulted online, I’d be just as inclined to give his account credence as a women’s.

What about those who have been accused, guilty until innocent?

StackSteevens

KiKi III wrote: »

I don’t know her, so I can’t say for sure. I know that I was compelled by the allegations on Twitter over the weekend to share a story from my own past here last night. I didn’t really have a “point”, I was just upset about it and wanted to get it off my chest.

So maybe that was her point.

As a matter of interest, did you believe the accuser in the Belfast rape trial?

KiKi III

bladespin wrote: »

What about those who have been accused, guilty until innocent?

Well, in both my case last night in sharing my story, and in the case of the tweet this thread is based on, no one has been accused.

But while we’re on the topic, “innocent until proven guilty” is a legal standard applicable in a court of law. If I was on a jury and I felt I couldn’t hold myself to that standard I’d have to recuse myself.

But in my personal life I can choose to believe someone or not.

frozenfrozen

KiKi III wrote: »

None of this is true. I have not made any broad statements about men like you are all a group of rapists and it’s really unfair to characterise what I’ve said that way.

The idea I’ve been unfair to male victims is so false that it must be an attempt at trolling.

What I have said is when it’s “he said/she said” men tend to believe men and I believe that’s due to a reluctance to really examine their peers’ actions.

Thousands of men and women attend rape crisis centres each year. Yet we only very occasionally hear of a false allegation.

The numbers don’t lie. Sexual violence is prevalent in Ireland but some people just seem to not want to believe it.

you've just proposed we're all in whatsapp groups with porn and misogynistic jokes :rolleyes: but I must be trolling for reading what you posted

KiKi III

StackSteevens wrote: »

As a matter of interest, did you believe the accuser in the Belfast rape trial?

Yes, I did.

As I understand it, no one in the courtroom was there representing her. The Crown Prosecution represented the state and questioned the men for a few hours each. There was no legal representation or advocate for the woman.

Then men’s extremely expensive legal team then questioned the girl for five full days. I’ll never have faith in a trial that questions the accused for hours and the alleged victim for days.

As I understand it, the way rape trials are conducted in the North was totally re-examined as a result.

bladespin

KiKi III wrote: »

Well, in both my case last night in sharing my story, and in the case of the tweet this thread is based on, no one has been accused.
.

Just referring to the mistrust quote the accusations, it's a very scary time to be male these days, even one who hasn't done anything wrong. A rumour is enough to damn you.