“Senior politician, household name” sexually assaults girl [** NO NAMES **]

seamus

bladespin wrote: »

As a father I'm calling bullsh1t on that too, I worry about my boys (they're small but still), the slightest thing can be misread and turned into something it's not.

I worry about my children becoming victims of violence of any kind.

I don't worry about them being accused of sexual misconduct because I'm raising them to have respect for other humans, and a random accusation of misconduct is as unlikely as being struck by lightning. But considerably less devastating.

FVP3

bladespin wrote: »

Pretty high level of distrust in men on it too.

To be fair, if some of the stories are true, then women do have a right to that distrust.

bladespin

seamus wrote: »

I worry about my children becoming victims of violence of any kind.

I don't worry about them being accused of sexual misconduct because I'm raising them to have respect for other humans, and a random accusation of misconduct is as unlikely as being struck by lightning. But considerably less devastating.

Everything is under the microscope these days, lightening seems to be becoming pretty common now.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

I worry about my children becoming victims of violence of any kind.

I don't worry about them being accused of sexual misconduct because I'm raising them to have respect for other humans, and a random accusation of misconduct is as unlikely as being struck by lightning. But considerably less devastating.

First of all it most likely won't be random, and is pretty devastating.

Have you never met a truly sociopathic woman? I've met a few of them, and they are capable of anything.

KiKi III

[Deleted User] wrote: »

First of all it most likely won't be random, and is pretty devastating.

Have you never met a truly sociopathic woman? I've met a few of them, and they are capable of anything.

I don’t think any of the men who assaulted me were sociopaths. I think they were opportunistic chancers. If you only have to worry about actual sociopaths, you’re not doing too badly.

bladespin

Deleted User wrote: »

First of all it most likely won't be random, and is pretty devastating.

Have you never met a truly sociopathic woman? I've met a few of them, and they are capable of anything.

It's not just women, there have been male fabricators too, it's the fact that judgement is swift and often without basis that's scary

Rodin

KiKi III wrote: »

Rape is incredibly difficult to prove in court.

Most accused say “Yes, we had sex and it was consensual.” So it becomes her word against his at which point it’s incredibly difficult to prove the allegation beyond reasonable doubt.

Which means many rapists walk free.

If they walk free they're not a rapist.

frozenfrozen

KiKi III wrote: »

I asked the question. I didn’t propose it. I notice you haven’t answered it.

Are you telling me these kinds of lads groups are a figment or my imagination as well?

Don't know how to answer you, no I'm not in those groups and I never said you made them up. I said you were being unfair to men by painting them all as deviants, which you essentially proved by suggesting we are all in misogynistic whatsapp groups. Happy to agree we both misinterpreted eachother because I have no interest in a back and forth over "suggesting they're a figment of your imagination"

seamus wrote: »

I worry about my children becoming victims of violence of any kind.

I don't worry about them being accused of sexual misconduct because I'm raising them to have respect for other humans, and a random accusation of misconduct is as unlikely as being struck by lightning. But considerably less devastating.

At least if you recover from being hit by lightning people will have sympathy for you

Rodin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The thing about the politicization of things like this too though, is a kind of resistance developes...

I don't know about this case (only from this thread..), and in the rugby trial up the north I kind of thought that going in with the intention of sleeping with one person was a very different thing to getting three wayd or whatever..

But like before that trial up north in particular I had never heard someone strongly not believing an accuser..

Turned out it wasn't rape.
That's why many didn't believe her.

Personally I think the rape story came about when another girl caught her in the act.

The Mighty Quinn

Just to turn it around for a minute.

My wife was the victim of false accusations regarding sexual misconduct in the work place, in a care facility. Accused by a former male member of staff of having been sexually inappropriate with a male with intellectual disabilities. She was suspended with pay while an investigation was ongoing. It moved at a slow pace, was months in the process.

As the events in the accusation were totally fabricated, her place of work came to the same conclusion, but the damage was done. All her colleagues knew why she was out of work. The mental toll it took on her is frightening. I think it has forever changed her. It was about five years ago and it's taken the shine off her positivity about life and love of her job. It has hollowed her out somewhat, and I don't think that's going to change.

KiKi III

Rodin wrote: »

If they walk free they're not a rapist.

That may be the case in the eyes of the law, but our justice system is not infallible.

If someone forced sex on someone else without consent, they are a rapist whether it is proven in court or not.

Many, many older men in Ireland were raped as boys by Christian Brothers. Would you tell them that because it never went to court that means it didn’t happen?

Rodin

KiKi III wrote: »

That may be the case in the eyes of the law, but our justice system is not infallible.

If someone forced sex on someone else without consent, they are a rapist whether it is proven in court or not.

Many, many older men in Ireland were raped as boys by Christian Brothers. Would you tell them that because it never went to court that means it didn’t happen?

If it goes to trial and it's not proven then it didn't happen.
There cannot be a presumption of guilt when a woman says a man raped her.

Gruffalux

What was wrong with the tweet is that the "senior figure" in FG who now is mentioned on here is completely different than the man, described on here in a completely recognisable way including his most recent recognisable activity, the night before last. That in a nutshell and demonstrated clearly on this thread is why she should never have pressed post.

KiKi III

Rodin wrote: »

If it goes to trial and it's not proven then it didn’t happen.

That’s quite obviously not true.

Lots of crimes of all kinds happen and no one is prosecuted for them.

The idea that they just “didn’t happen” if nobody was convicted is nonsensical.

bladespin

FVP3 wrote: »

To be fair, if some of the stories are true, then women do have a right to that distrust.

But we're not allowed generalise like that now.

This is it

Rodin wrote: »

If it goes to trial and it's not proven then it didn't happen.

Don't be so ridiculous.

c.p.w.g.w

Looking at her recent Tweets, giving out about defamation law here...

That law also protects her if someone shouts on twitter something unsavory about her without evidence...

Rape is very difficult to prove, to be found guilty, as there can be no doubt...That is the standard for Murder too...

There is lots about how much better the UK system(on twitter) is due to the lads in Ulster. Knowing someone who works in law enforcement here in Ireland, they said if that happened in Dublin, it would never have went to court here, as there was no way in hell of securing a conviction...

What happened in Norn Ireland was the alleged victim was subjected to horrific cross examination, the alleged attackers had their reputations & careers destroyed as well as being financial ruined...

KiKi III

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Looking at her recent Tweets, giving out about defamation law here...

That law also protects her if someone shouts on twitter something unsavory about her without evidence...

Rape is very difficult to prove, to be found guilty, as there can be no doubt...That is the standard for Murder too...

There is lots about how much better the UK system(on twitter) is due to the lads in Ulster. Knowing someone who works in law enforcement here in Ireland, they said if that happened in Dublin, it would never have went to court here, as there was no way in hell of securing a conviction...

What happened in Norn Ireland was the alleged victim was subjected to horrific cross examination, the alleged attackers had their reputations & careers destroyed as well as being financial ruined...

Paddy Jackson still plays international rugby.

Donald Trump is president of the USA.

Chris Brown beat the shiit out of Rihanna and he still plays arenas.

I’m not sure this idea that an allegation is enough to destroy a man’s career really holds up.

bladespin

KiKi III wrote: »

Paddy Jackson still plays international rugby.

He doesn't, at least not yet.

hots

KiKi III wrote: »

Paddy Jackson still plays international rugby.

Donald Trump is president of the USA.

Chris Brown beat the shiit out of Rihanna and he still plays arenas.

I’m not sure this idea that an allegation is enough to destroy a man’s career really holds up.

The Trump and Chris Brown ones really are mental when you think about it, especially chris brown where the photos are so shocking, I actually don't know how someone could go back to listening to him. The mental gymnastics that some perform to somehow blame rihanna for it are wild.

Trump seems to have enough core followers to basically have committed any crime and it's ok.

Jackson seems a lot more cloudy but he's lost a lot and was found not guilty which seems unfair (but he seems to have not exactly been squeaky clean)

This is it

KiKi III wrote: »

Paddy Jackson still plays international rugby.

Donald Trump is president of the USA.

Chris Brown beat the shiit out of Rihanna and he still plays arenas.

I’m not sure this idea that an allegation is enough to destroy a man’s career really holds up.

Paddy Jackson doesn't. I understand your point but using him as an example actually contradicts your point. He was driven out of Irish rugby, provincial and international, even after being found not guilty.

KiKi III

bladespin wrote: »

He doesn't, at least not yet.

Sorry, I googled quickly and saw he plays for London Irish. Is that not a team that plays international fixtures? My knowledge of rugby is zero.

Rodin

KiKi III wrote: »

That’s quite obviously not true.

Lots of crimes of all kinds happen and no one is prosecuted for them.

The idea that they just “didn’t happen” if nobody was convicted is nonsensical.

You can't call someone a rapist if they've never been convicted of it. If you did it would be an expensive mistake

Rodin

This is it wrote: »

Paddy Jackson doesn't. I understand your point but using him as an example actually contradicts your point. He was driven out of Irish rugby, provincial and international, even after being found not guilty.

I'd have sued them to high heaven.

KiKi III

Rodin wrote: »

You can't call someone a rapist if they've never been convicted of it. If you did it would be an expensive mistake

Can I call the guy who anally raped me a rapist? I know he did it because I was there and it hurt, but we’ve never been to court over it.

KiKi III

KiKi III wrote: »

Sorry, I googled quickly and saw he plays for London Irish. Is that not a team that plays international fixtures? My knowledge of rugby is zero.

Not international per the term. But, he would travel with London Irish to other countries if they qualified for European club competitions.

Rodin

KiKi III wrote: »

Can I call the guy who anally raped me a rapist? I know he did it because I was there and it hurt, but we’ve never been to court over it.

Why not?
But if you're going to call someone a rapist in public, you should be prepared to do something about it.

bladespin

KiKi III wrote: »

Sorry, I googled quickly and saw he plays for London Irish. Is that not a team that plays international fixtures? My knowledge of rugby is zero.

No but the path for the International team is back open for him, he had a fair fight to get back to where he should have been, a classic example of the damage that had been caused to his career.

KiKi III

KiKi III wrote: »

Can I call the guy who anally raped me a rapist? I know he did it because I was there and it hurt, but we’ve never been to court over it.

To be pedantic. Yes, you can. Would you be able to defend a liable case is another question.

I know how pedantic that sounds given the circumstances, but just answering the question.

Rodin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be pedantic. Yes, you can. Would you be able to defend a liable case is another question.

I know how pedantic that sounds given the circumstances, but just answering the question.

Only libel if it's in print/text.
Verbal accusation is slander.