“Senior politician, household name” sexually assaults girl [** NO NAMES **]

tjhook

Rodin wrote: »

You can't call someone a rapist if they've never been convicted of it. If you did it would be an expensive mistake

It's a commonly misunderstood area. I'm not a legal eagle, but my understanding is that the full phrase is "assumed innocent until proven guilty". I.e. Not definitely guilty or definitely innocent, but your good name is assumed until and unless proven otherwise. In the same way that all of us can only be "assumed" to be innocent of JFK's assassination.


You're right in that there are also laws to protect people's good name, so we can't shout about a person having committed crimes unless we can prove it.

c.p.w.g.w

KiKi III wrote: »

Paddy Jackson still plays international rugby.

Donald Trump is president of the USA.

Chris Brown beat the shiit out of Rihanna and he still plays arenas.

I’m not sure this idea that an allegation is enough to destroy a man’s career really holds up.

Paddy doesn't play international rugby anymore, the IRFU booted him out like he was found guilty

Trump & Brown both america...I country were justice isn't blind when you have money

A colleague of my misses, had to leave the country...

He was accused of rape in Galway* around xmas 1 year, he was actually in Edinburgh* the night of the alleged rape...His name was dragged through the mud in his local town. Spent 10 years work away, only recently came back after being head hunted by my misses employer going by his middle name & mothers maiden name, met him at their xmas party just gone I knew him and the look on his face when we were introduced, because nobody in his workplace knew of the allegation but i did...I told him not to worry, my misses doesn't even know as the allegation was 100% incorrect

*not the real locations

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

Only libel if it's in print/text.
Verbal accusation is slander.

I have it in my head that slander is obsolete, and they use the term libel for both now. I stand to be corrected.

KiKi III

Rodin wrote: »

Why not?

Because I thought I loved him.

Because it would bring pain to my family.

Because it would bring pain to his family.

Because I had no way of proving it wasn’t consensual.

Because I know the chance of securing a conviction in those circumstances is close to zero.

He knows I said no and he knows he didn’t stop. It turned him on that I was in pain, he told me that himself after. But I’d bet every penny I have he doesn’t consider himself a rapist.

It happened ten years ago and I only called the rape crisis centre about it over the weekend. For years, I pushed it down and minimised it, and then wondered why I struggled to form healthy relationships with decent men.

The centre told me for cases like mine there is a waiting list of a year for counselling but they gave me two numbers for former rape crisis centre counsellors I can go to privately. They also have a waiting list but it’s shorter and I’m glad I can afford to go to them.

screamer

I don’t understand the need to share this information on twitter. It seems like a total attention seeking exercise. Report it and at least have the peace of mind knowing you tried to do something, or learn to live with it. Throwing stones at every senior politician is very unfair, and wrong. You’d imagine someone who was wronged would know that, but it appears not.

Silentcorner

KiKi III wrote: »

Because I thought I loved him.

Because it would bring pain to my family.

Because it would bring pain to his family.

Because I had no way of proving it wasn’t consensual.

Because I know the chance of securing a conviction in those circumstances is close to zero.

He knows I said no and he knows he didn’t stop. It turned him on that I was in pain, he told me that himself after. But I’d bet every penny I have he doesn’t consider himself a rapist.

It happened ten years ago and I only called the rape crisis centre about it over the weekend. For years, I pushed it down and minimised it, and then wondered why I struggled to form healthy relationships with decent men.

The centre told me for cases like mine there is a waiting list of a year for counselling but they gave me two numbers for former rape crisis centre counsellors I can go to privately. They also have a waiting list but it’s shorter and I’m glad I can afford to go to them.

That is horrific.

I don't know what to say.

You were right about everything you said, there is no way you'd secure a conviction.

If you did, I'd imagine the sentence wouldn't justify the ordeal.

It is because of cases like this, you can see the benefit of well constructed consent classes.

Truthvader

hots wrote: »

The Trump and Chris Brown ones really are mental when you think about it, especially chris brown where the photos are so shocking, I actually don't know how someone could go back to listening to him. The mental gymnastics that some perform to somehow blame rihanna for it are wild.

Trump seems to have enough core followers to basically have committed any crime and it's ok.

Jackson seems a lot more cloudy but he's lost a lot and was found not guilty which seems unfair (but he seems to have not exactly been squeaky clean)

Rightyho then. Squeaky Clean it is. I'll fetch the nets and we'll round up the rest of them

StackSteevens

Deleted User wrote: »

I have it in my head that slander is obsolete, and they use the term libel for both now. I stand to be corrected.

Probably best to use the word defame/defamation, which is what the legislation is called (Defamation Act, 2009).

StackSteevens

StackSteevens wrote: »

Probably best to use the word defame/defamation, which is what the legislation is called (Defamation Act, 2009).

I was half right :pac:

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is because of cases like this, you can see the benefit of well constructed consent classes.

I honestly don't. The guy anally raped her and enjoyed the fact she were in pain. He is an animal. He would laugh at consent classes. You might as well have theft, extortion and murder avoidance classes too while you are at it. For borderline cases, maybe. But not here.

hots

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is because of cases like this, you can see the benefit of well constructed consent classes.

Sadly a scumbag like that isn't going to learn from a consent class imo. Consent classes are useful for teaching the specifics of blurry lines (what if we're both drunk etc.), but stuff like this everyone knows is wrong and a cn.t chose to do it anyway.

KiKi III

Silentcorner wrote: »

That is horrific.

I don't know what to say.

You were right about everything you said, there is no way you'd secure a conviction.

If you did, I'd imagine the sentence wouldn't justify the ordeal.

It is because of cases like this, you can see the benefit of well constructed consent classes.

It’s also why, alongside the earlier assault I outlined in the thread and multiple experiences of sexual misconduct in my life, I tend to believe women when they say something like this happened.

The vast majority of assaults and rapes are never reported for the reasons I said above and more.

I’ve read the reports into false allegations so I know they are thankfully rare.

But the women who have confided their stories in me about rape and assault stood to gain absolutely nothing from it. Like me, they’re just trying to process a really horrible experience by talking about it.

One day I might write about my experiences. There’s something cathartic about it. I’d probably write on Medium rather than Twitter, I certainly wouldn’t name anyone, and I’d probably log on here to find a thread about how I’m an attention-seeking feminazi sociopath.

hots

Truthvader wrote: »

Rightyho then. Squeaky Clean it is. I'll fetch the nets and we'll round up the rest of them

? I said not exactly squeaky clean? As in from what I saw he's not exactly a sound lad I'd want to spend any time with, but the damage he received from the rape allegation that was then found not guilty is unfair.

Rodin

KiKi III wrote: »

Because I thought I loved him.

Because it would bring pain to my family.

Because it would bring pain to his family.

Because I had no way of proving it wasn’t consensual.

Because I know the chance of securing a conviction in those circumstances is close to zero.

He knows I said no and he knows he didn’t stop. It turned him on that I was in pain, he told me that himself after. But I’d bet every penny I have he doesn’t consider himself a rapist.

It happened ten years ago and I only called the rape crisis centre about it over the weekend. For years, I pushed it down and minimised it, and then wondered why I struggled to form healthy relationships with decent men.

The centre told me for cases like mine there is a waiting list of a year for counselling but they gave me two numbers for former rape crisis centre counsellors I can go to privately. They also have a waiting list but it’s shorter and I’m glad I can afford to go to them.

Glad you've taken the first step...

KiKi III

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I honestly don't. The guy anally raped her and enjoyed the fact she were in pain. He is an animal. He would laugh at consent classes. You might as well have theft, extortion and murder avoidance classes too while you are at it. For borderline cases, maybe. But not here.

And if we went to court, he’s a clean cut guy from a respectable family. He has a decent job, he is - as far as anyone knows - a good father to his daughter.

And I’m a promiscuous recovering alcoholic. Or at least I’m pretty sure that’s how his lawyers would define me.

I’d be torn apart. It would honestly end up being worse than the rape itself.

By the way, the reason it turned him on that I was in pain is that since his teens (I’ve known him since we were 10) he has had a complex about having a small penis. When I was crying in pain, for the first time in his life he felt like he had a big cock and he loved that feeling.

facehugger99

Rodin wrote: »

If it goes to trial and it's not proven then it didn't happen.

So if nobody gets convicted for a murder, the victim gets resurrected?

maestroamado

KiKi III wrote: »

That’s a fairly flimsy reason to doubt she’s telling the truth. She’s offered a very reasonable explanation of why she hasn’t named the person involved: Irish defamation laws combined with the fact that he is wealthier and more powerful than her make it risky for her to do so.

She wanted to tell her story as I did here last night, and I completely understand that.

The rush to assume she’s lying on here makes me really sad. The idea that lots of young women are telling stories like this for social media kudos suggests people have a very low opinion of them.

It’s much, much easier for me to believe a politician got handsy with this girl than that she’d randomly make it up.

You guys obviously have a very high degree of faith in senior irish politicians compared with young women. I know which group I have more reason to doubt when it comes to ethics and morals.

I would love to believe her but there nothing to believe unless its reported..
I would be very happy to see any person taken down for something they done but not by media gossip.
The only person that is getting upset about this is original poster so better make proper complaint or let it go.

I am certainly not defending as i approached a Minister responsible in his remit when there a serious problem, he did nothing so it was never resolved.

brooke 2

Rodin wrote: »

If they walk free they're not a rapist.

Balderdash!! The person whom they raped knows for sure they're a rapist!! :mad:

El_Duderino 09

KiKi III wrote: »

I actually started a thread here about it at the time. The man had waited until my housemate left (he’s a neighbour), turned up at my door stinking of drink at midday and lied to gain entry to my apartment. He then made a pass at me. He’s bigger than me, twice my age and married to the woman he lives in the apartment next door with.

Here’s the irony: Despite all the “tell the Gardaí” crowd on this thread, I got absolutely torn apart in AH (pre-CA days) for going to the Gardai over something so minor.

I deleted a previous account over it.

Sometimes it really just seems like there’s no winning here as a woman no matter what you do if a man behaves in a predatory way.

I remember that thread. Shameful stuff.

This is the thing. The same posters will take the anti-claimant side no matter what the circumstances. It's just the way their mind works. Always blame the victim and any old reason will do. Presume they're not telling the truth, or the event doesn't constitute an assault anyway. These poeppe just have that mentality that it's always the victim's fault.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

The Mighty Quinn wrote: »

Just to turn it around for a minute.

My wife was the victim of false accusations regarding sexual misconduct in the work place, in a care facility. Accused by a former male member of staff of having been sexually inappropriate with a male with intellectual disabilities. She was suspended with pay while an investigation was ongoing. It moved at a slow pace, was months in the process.

As the events in the accusation were totally fabricated, her place of work came to the same conclusion, but the damage was done. All her colleagues knew why she was out of work. The mental toll it took on her is frightening. I think it has forever changed her. It was about five years ago and it's taken the shine off her positivity about life and love of her job. It has hollowed her out somewhat, and I don't think that's going to change.

That’s heartbreaking.

And, before anyone ambushes me, I feel exactly the same about any man who is affected by false accusations.

TheChizler

maestroamado wrote: »

I would love to believe her but there nothing to believe unless its reported..
I would be very happy to see any person taken down for something they done but not by media gossip.
The only person that is getting upset about this is original poster so better make proper complaint or let it go.

I am certainly not defending as i approached a Minister responsible in his remit when there a serious problem, he did nothing so it was never resolved.

She did report it. CCTV evidence apparently. It went nowhere.

Beechwoodspark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not international per the term. But, he would travel with London Irish to other countries if they qualified for European club competitions.

This is correct. He wouldn’t be playing for Ireland but yes at club level he’d play in European competitions.

Beechwoodspark

Do ppl have any issue with multiple names being thrown around like confetti on social media with zero evidence of wrongdoing

ExMachina1000

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Do ppl have any issue with multiple names being thrown around like confetti on social media with zero evidence of wrongdoing

I keep saying one man in particular coming up repeatedly.

A mayo politician by the name of <MODSNIP>

Mod: edited to remove name. Could get this site in legal trouble.

headnorth

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Do ppl have any issue with multiple names being thrown around like confetti on social media with zero evidence of wrongdoing

I do, I'm related to 1 of them. Couple of accounts on twitter named him. His kids and partner having to read that.

ExMachina1000

headnorth wrote: »

I do, I'm related to 1 of them. Couple of accounts on twitter named him. His kids and partner having to read that.

Did he do it?

JJayoo

Jimmy Saville?

KiKi III

I’m going to bow out of the thread here because reliving awful things that happened to me to try and convince men that sexual violence is real and prevalent is hard on my mental health.

I’m not rich, but I can absolutely afford to get the specialist counselling I need now privately and while I’m grateful for that, I feel awful for the women who will remain on the DRCC’s year-long waiting list (this is for historical abuse - they’ll see you sooner if it was in the last six months)

Their hotline, which any victim can call at any time and speak to a qualified crisis counsellor is 1800 778888.

I’m going to make a donation to them today because I feel like it’s the least I can do.

frozenfrozen

I hope you don't think I was trying to convince you sexual violence isn't real, but I'm one of the people you were replying to before. I'm sorry you went through what you did and I hope you have a good outcome with your counselling.

hots

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Do ppl have any issue with multiple names being thrown around like confetti on social media with zero evidence of wrongdoing

All names should be kept out of the media until a trial has passed, regardless of the crime.